Levi's Vintage Clothing

[setterman]

Now the 505 model. This started life as the 551zxx. It was different in cut, slightly more carrot-shaped than the 501xx/501zxx and more importantly it was sanforized. It came out in 1955 and ran until 1965/66, when it was gradually renamed the 505.

I know the book you're quoting says 1955, but I thought the 551ZXX and 557XX came out together in the very early 60s. Seems odd that Levis would introduce the 501ZXX in '54 and then introduce the 551ZXX a year later. I know from some of the flight jacket books, the Japanese can be a little off on their dates some times.

[Dr_Heech]

I know the book you're quoting says 1955, but I thought the 551ZXX and 557XX came out together in the very early 60s. Seems odd that Levis would introduce the 501ZXX in '54 and then introduce the 551ZXX a year later. I know from some of the flight jacket books, the Japanese can be a little off on their dates some times.

I thought this to be the case, but now I'm not 100% sure. I have two books that quote this, one from 1995 and another from 2006. The 557xx definately came out in '61/62, changing into the 70505 in '65/66. SoI guess the 551z/505 should also be the same. As mentioned, the dates are not always 'bang on'.

The period between 1965-66 is when those transitional patches appeared on 551zxx jeans and the 557xx/558xx/559xx/940xx/941xx/840bxx jackets.

Maybe they introduced the 551z a year after the 501z as a pre-shrunk alternative?

They definately made the 551zxx between '61-64, as this was when they had the off-set belt loop and the 'every garment guaranteed' patch - these two features disappeared after '64.

I would post some more detailed pics but cant be arsed tbh.

Anyway, the LVC version of the 1954 501zxx and the 1967 505 are inaccurate cut-wise, so it makes no difference really.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Dr_Heech

[bluegoldblues]

I wish lynn downey or someone at levis would just go through the company archives/documents/orders and make a definitive Levi's collectors guide so we dont have to do all this guess work!

[Dr_Heech]

Yeah but while we're guessing, we're spending. Same as the sizing issues, I mean why get the right fit first time when you have to guess by buying two or three pairs online before getting it right. makes good buisness sense to levis.

[Shorty Long]

not when customers get frustrated with the inconsistencies and give up on the brand altogether

Yeah but while we're guessing, we're spending. Same as the sizing issues, I mean why get the right fit first time when you have to guess by buying two or three pairs online before getting it right. makes good buisness sense to levis.

[Dr_Heech]

not when customers get frustrated with the inconsistencies and give up on the brand altogether

Yeah but by that time we have bought several pairs. There's always another would be 'customer' around the corner!

[setterman]

know what you mean Erk, i've been trying for some time to run down some Lee Westerners and White Levis in my size at a reasonable price with no luck at all. Lee japan has reissued the Westerner line but little of it has made it's way to the U.S. plus i wasn't too impressed with what i saw. looks like a modern interpretation and not historically accurate.

Is the kid with his back to the camera wearing the jeans you're talking about?

The way his pants fit is exactly what I mean when I say 1966 501s should be hemmed and worn short.

By setterman at 2012-02-23

[Maynard Friedman]

Yeah but while we're guessing, we're spending. Same as the sizing issues, I mean why get the right fit first time when you have to guess by buying two or three pairs online before getting it right. makes good buisness sense to levis.

I only made one sizing error with LVC and I tried them on in the shop and bought them! They were some 201s I bought in 2005 (the wrong arcs!) and they just didn't shrink anywhere near as much as I'd thought. Other than that I've been fine. Admittedly Sufu has been a great help.

[Dr_Heech]

I only made one sizing error with LVC and I tried them on in the shop and bought them! They were some 201s I bought in 2005 (the wrong arcs!) and they just didn't shrink anywhere near as much as I'd thought. Other than that I've been fine. Admittedly Sufu has been a great help.

Lol, i had those wrong arc 201's, sent them straight back!

Before 2000, I bought several pairs of the original range, which i had no problem with sizing-wise. Bought a fair bit from aeroleather and cinch in 2003/4/5 but had to send some back due to sizing problems. This enevitably puts the cost up with return postage.

Since then I have bought about 6 pairs of Lvc, but ended up sending 5 of those back due to quality as well as sizing issues. I'm still undecided on my 2010 '44's, but they were a present so I'm trying to stick with them.

I think it's good if the shop your buying from can give you accurate measurements first.

And yes, sufu has been helpfull

[colgems1966]

Setterman those look like white levis to me. "white levis" was a popular mid-60's line of trim fitting jeans in a variety of colors even cords (found some NOS cords on ebay but they're all tiny) going by tv and old movies they must have been very popular. Jefferson Airplane even did white levis radio commercials. anyway i'd love to have a pair but any i have seen for sale are very small. Lee did the westerner which is similar, IMO even better and these seem easier to find but all i saw were expensive.

[Paul T]

LVC's sizing is pathetic. It's always been patchy, now it's worse with the over-sizing of most of the range.

But the problem is exacerbated by people buying online in the hope of saving extra pennies. When I get my one PM a day (thankfully it's now down to one a week with the near-dead SuFu) it's always from someone who can't find the actual size, or the seller won't tell him, blah blah, and often they go for something unlikely to fit - because it's a bargain! Then they moan. Edmond posted here about LVC 55, I told him to buy actual size, with photos, and he of course sized up - then slagged them off.

It's not just LVC though. I sold a pair of Lotus online... one guy messaged me, I advised him not to buy them, said they'd be too small. What did he do? Bloody bid on them anyway then asked to return them a full seven days later...

Edited February 23, 2012 by Paul T

[killer b]

Yeah but while we're guessing, we're spending. Same as the sizing issues, I mean why get the right fit first time when you have to guess by buying two or three pairs online before getting it right. makes good buisness sense to levis.

not really. satisfied repeat custom is surely better than someone giving up on your brand after a few failed purchases?

[big truck]

I bought some 201s from cinch around 2005 - what was wrong with the arcs? I sold them after I had worn them to death. Looking forward to the new ones later this year.

[setterman]

Setterman those look like white levis to me. "white levis" was a popular mid-60's line of trim fitting jeans in a variety of colors even cords (found some NOS cords on ebay but they're all tiny) going by tv and old movies they must have been very popular. Jefferson Airplane even did white levis radio commercials. anyway i'd love to have a pair but any i have seen for sale are very small. Lee did the westerner which is similar, IMO even better and these seem easier to find but all i saw were expensive.

Was there a lot number assigned to this model/line? thanks!

[colgems1966]

i don't think so. all the advertising and the flashers on the jeans themselves referred to them as white levis regardless of color. they were definately the non-denim levis line of the day. if you search white levis and click vintage on ebay there's a seller with 2-3 deadstock pair and you can see them with flashers. real cool line and deserves to be resurrected. i just think being twill or cords they would be price sensitive. somehow we're used to ponying up for selvage denim but more reluctant with other fabrics, i know i am.

[entertainment]

LVC did do a white levi's repro in white as a limited edition. I have a pair. I will post some photos soon.

[colgems1966]

i remember that, seems like a saw a pair on ebay once, but the pair i saw were about a 30 waist.

[airfrogusmc]

I bought some 201s from cinch around 2005 - what was wrong with the arcs? I sold them after I had worn them to death. Looking forward to the new ones later this year.

They had double needle stitching. It should have been single needle.

[aho]

japanese model 55s...

http://www.denimba.com/2012/02/23/8655

[Maynard Friedman]

1967s on sale for £95

http://www.geniyus.com/item/levis-vintage-clothing_jeans_1967-505-jeans_0_5_813_0.html

[eltopo]

New LVC overalls.

www.banditphotographer.com

www.denimbro.com

Edited February 24, 2012 by eltopo

[ranonranonarat]

holy beard.

[Dr_Heech]

Yeah but while we're guessing, we're spending. Same as the sizing issues, I mean why get the right fit first time when you have to guess by buying two or three pairs online before getting it right. makes good buisness sense to levis.

not when customers get frustrated with the inconsistencies and give up on the brand altogether

not really. satisfied repeat custom is surely better than someone giving up on your brand after a few failed purchases?

Obvoiusly the sarcasm hasn't come through.

Look, i agree with you both, but levi's dont seem to value those principles. Look, they've been making a hash of the sizing since 2003 (with the exception of the earleir '37 201xx) - that's 9 yrears!! Nine years and they still cock it up? It must be deliberate, no?

Their sizing inconsistencies are one of Lvc's actual consistencies - i mean, what's all that about?

Yet we (and i dont just mean just sufu'ers) still go through the hassle of trying to buy a pair to fit. This is in large mostly to do with the rise of the internet. So, two or possibly three pairs later, we have a pair to fit but are hacked-off, so levi's has our money and ebay makes a profit too with second-hand sales. We go away muttering about Levi's and how we will never buy again, but there are new lambs waiting for the slaughter - enter another generation of would-be suckers on their learning curve.

I'm not doing an 'electrum' as I like lvc, but unfortunately like some here, I have spent a fair bit of dough to get the (most) accurate models I want, in the size that's right for me. But since 2005 the sizing/quality of lvc has plummeted in my opinion. Yes, the denim cone makes for lvc is unique and awesome - but that's cone. Lvc then takes this beautifull fabric and makes a mis-sized/inaccurate model for us to desire - just look at the 1927, '17. '15 and '22 models. I could go on, but I've gotta get to work.

Over to you maynard........

[colgems1966]

^^^^agreed!i think some of this has to do with the shuttering of Levis factories and the farming out of production. in other words they were willing to throw customer satisfaction to the wind to stick a few more dollars in their pocket. (that goes for regular levis also) i have worn 501's & 505's my whole life and am old enough to know that the quality of the regular Levi's line has been a constant down hill roll.

as for LVC, people are paying for a premium product; supposedly a historical replica, so it is a reasonable expectation for it to fit and have similar construction and materials as the original they are copying. i have seen a similar pattern with LVC, i think the earlier models were better made and were more robust. that is not to say they don't occasionally create good releases, but the earlier models seem heavier and sturdier like real workwear. some of the last few years LVC releases feel flimsy like they would fall apart if you used them hard. i seriously doubt that's the case with the originals.

[dr.house]

japanese model 55s...

http://www.denimba.com/2012/02/23/8655

This pair reminds me of my Denimes:

[Maynard Friedman]

I agree with Dr Heech. People go through that pain for say the 1947, then often have to repeat it when they decide they'd like to try a 55 or 66. The sizing inconsistencies of one model are not necessarily the same nature as another, eg size up for 1947s but down for 55s.

[colgems1966]

the thing is we know Levi's reads this board. i'm sure they are quite aware of the sizing issues not to mention authenticity errors, hardware issues etc..but as the Dr. said it has been allowed to go on year after year. there is no excuse for that in a pair of jeans that expensive.

[Shorty Long]

It's pretty obvious to me that the people running LVC have, to a certain extent, placed authenticity down a couple notches on the list of priorities. I'm sure there are numerous reasons for this, and I"m sure some are fairly valid.

The frustrating thing is that, in some instances they go to great pains to get it right in terms of authenticity, but in many other ways they completely drop the ball.

[ranonranonarat]

the surprising thing is how not one single person has stepped up to answer these queries or address these grievances with regards to all the feedback. does anyone find this strange at all???

[setterman]

the surprising thing is how not one single person has stepped up to answer these queries or address these grievances with regards to all the feedback. does anyone find this strange at all???

What are they gonna say? "Yeah, we charged you $250 for a historical reproduction, but a,b,c & d is wrong with it and we know it. Sorry!"