Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Paul T]

Yup. The 44's feel huge compared to the 47's. the feel of these new 47's and 44's has made me wonder if they were made with Cone's supply of pima cotton. This is from the interview that Paul T. did with Ralph Tharpe in January. (see the Cone thread.)

NO, the Pima is v expensive and only used on $500 jeans!

Good you brought it up madder_lake. Does anybody have shots of marble "orange peel" effect? I think I've seen it on some Japanese repro's.

Orange peel is a specific type marbling and is usually associated with 70s OE denim - look at worn in orange tabs. (By marbling, people generally mean the bigger lines when jeans get scrunched up in the washer drum, Ralph is talking here to a more micro-scale marbling).

Marbling

Marbling seems to be characteristic of older denim, and gives them a lot of their character. I guess it's a matter of personal taste, considering some companies even go out of their way to marble denim. Not sure if "fabrics made in the old way" were "woven gently on the slower looms", though. Sounds like a bit of marketing-speak there. If I wanted low tension I'd get some jeans in broken twill selvage.

Yes, he's entirely correct about the woven gently - it's a technical description not marketing speak (Ralph is not a marekting-style person) and refers both to the loom and the yarn. It's for this reason that they weave kevlar fabric for reinforcing jet turbine shrouds on shuttle looms - it imposes less tension and keeps the integrity of the yarns.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Paul T

[Madder_Lake]

NO, the Pima is v expensive and only used on $500 jeans!

It's used in Skull's - S5010XX 6X6 @ $289.

[Paul T]

I thought the Skulls use a blend. The Cone fabric uses pure pima for the fill, and the only other jeans that use pure Pima that I know of were the Raleigh Barney's anniversary special - which were $495 or $595 IIRC. Those used the last of cone's supply.

I did have a conversation recently with Cone's new head of technical development about whether their (original) 920s denim might have had any Sea Island cotton in it. The answer is most likely no, it didn't.

The skulls indeed look very good value if they have a lot of Pima in there given current cotton prices (although it has stabilised recently).

[Lex2]

it's used in skull's - s5010xx 6x6 @ $289.

It also probably depends on exactly how much pima fill they used. Their webpage mentions a blend of some sort, but are not very specific about it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Lex2

[beautiful_FrEaK]

yes, no exact numbers available on the skulls. the yamato line from samurai uses pima cotton in a blend (40% pima cotton / 60% Egyptian cotton). for 375 $ (although the price is also because of the other features and the brand)

[entertainment]

When I posted the information on fabric weight of Levi's, I meant to include the source which is 501: The Evolution of the Jean by Lynn Downey, published by Levi Strauss (2008) pp. 16-21. (The previous post has been edited.) I certainly have no first hand knowledge of fabric weight from handling vintage jeans. The information in the book could be wrong, but unless someone has very extensive experience with vintage jeans from the World War II era, I would tend to trust this source.

[setterman]

Yup. The 44's feel huge compared to the 47's.

How do you think the two cuts would compare if the 44s were a size smaller? For example, would a size 34 '44 be very close to a size 36 '47 (or bigger or smaller)?

[jewellben]

How do you think the two cuts would compare if the 44s were a size smaller? For example, would a size 34 '44 be very close to a size 36 '47 (or bigger or smaller)?

I find the cuts very similar at the top of the leg and bum but the 44 taper ever so slightly from the knee down. I've got a 34" 1944 and a 36" 1947. I also think (this could be me) that the 1944 denim is thicker and darker too

[setterman]

I find the cuts very similar at the top of the leg and bum but the 44 taper ever so slightly from the knee down. I've got a 34" 1944 and a 36" 1947. I also think (this could be me) that the 1944 denim is thicker and darker too

Thanks for the reply. Tried on my old pair of '44s (643 button code) last night. They're tagged 38, but cultizm correctly advertised them as measuring 1" over tagged size. They've always been one of my slimmer jeans but I've lost some weight, and now they're big enough I can pull them off without unbuttoning them (I got not ass or hips!). If I ever get another pair, looks like 36 is the way to go (or a 38 in the '47). Thanks.

I don't have '47s to compare them with, but my '44s have a thicker or bulkier feel to them than my other LVC.

[jewellben]

I happen to have the 1944 on today - excuse the camera phone snap

[Iwmmm]

LVC Type III Trucker Jacker on Gilt today: Only $125 (marked down from $325)

Not really to my liking but maybe to someone else's?

Click

[jyoni]

Thanks for the reply. Tried on my old pair of '44s (643 button code) last night. They're tagged 38, but cultizm correctly advertised them as measuring 1" over tagged size. They've always been one of my slimmer jeans but I've lost some weight, and now they're big enough I can pull them off without unbuttoning them (I got not ass or hips!). If I ever get another pair, looks like 36 is the way to go (or a 38 in the '47). Thanks.

my 38s were a 41 raw! Actually, both pairs were, the one i exchanged and the one i kept. full fit from the start. i'm too solid to fluctuate much with weight, but i had a spike of weight loss that made them practically unwearable. i wish i'd had the foresight to go with a 36.

[smittybat]

Just for reference here are some measurements from Cultizm, all for tagged 38.

1966 38->39

1955 38->39

1944 38->39

1933 38->39

1915 38->40

[jyoni]

button code 4170

[Madder_Lake]

How do you think the two cuts would compare if the 44s were a size smaller? For example, would a size 34 '44 be very close to a size 36 '47 (or bigger or smaller)?

For me the 44's have much bigger thighs.

Should add that jewellben's 44's do look very similar to 47's in cut. They've been hot soaked?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Madder_Lake

[setterman]

button code 4170

yep, and I think the only ones there that are right are the 1933 and 1966. My raw 4170 55s were 40 1/2". I assume the 1915s are 41" since my size 36 1922s were 39" raw and the pattern for the two models is basically the same. Mass confusion! If they made every jean one inch bigger than tagged, they'd probably solve a lot of problems....

[colgems1966]

this is a tiresome problem and one that should have been solved a long time ago. i was not in the market for jeans but was able to get some NWT's at a very low price. i have always bought raw the last 10 years; but they only had washed models and were cheap. knowing LVC i asked for measurements up front. i bought a 1954 501z measures 38w 34l and a 1944 tagged 38w 36l measures 37w 33l. i was worried about the 54's but the 44's measured the same as my 2 pairs of STF 44's (both older models one a 554) anyway the 54's fit really well in the seat and thighs; they look good. the 44's fit in the waist and the length but the seat and thighs were incredibly baggy. tried on they looked like 560 relaxed fit jeans from the 90's, just need some acid wash on them and i'd be all set. for some reason this really pissed me off; there's no excuse for this after more than a decade of production. i called Levi's to complain (this was in the last few days) and i was told by customer service that LVC isn't made anymore and hasn't been in the last few years. after a lengthy discussion where i attempted to explain Levi's divisions, structure and products to their paid "service" represenative i was told my number and e-mail would be forwarded to the appropriate group and they would be in touch with me. i have yet to hear a word back. i bought my first pair of LVC in 1999 and i learned a few lessons: 1) i will never buy another washed model because if they don't fit you can't adjust the fit in the wash 2) LVC has ongoing and serious fit issues. if K-mart can sell jeans that fit why can't an expensive pair of jeans fit correctly? is that asking too much? 3) Levis customer service is a joke. they don't even know what's going on. maybe they can help you with the Levi Strauss signature bought at Wal-Mart or the Silver Tabs from Sears but you are shit out of luck if you spend more for a premium product, because you won't get premuim service or any service at all for that matter....anyway unless something changes i'm done. if i want anymore i'll scout around for used models where i can anticipate any fit issues based on past experiences, i know pretty much how older production will fit.

Edited December 15, 2011 by colgems1966

[Lex2]

When I posted the information on fabric weight of Levi's, I meant to include the source which is 501: The Evolution of the Jean by Lynn Downey, published by Levi Strauss (2008) pp. 16-21. (The previous post has been edited.) I certainly have no first hand knowledge of fabric weight from handling vintage jeans. The information in the book could be wrong, but unless someone has very extensive experience with vintage jeans from the World War II era, I would tend to trust this source.

Good book, incidentally out of print, though I did see one "Like New " on Ebay a couple of days ago retailing for 30 bucks.

[pageoner]

i recently picked up a Levi's oxford type shirt, with "native' type colored stitching throughout the shirt, and was made in Portugal, seems consistent with other company's made in Portugal shirts, any information?

[patt11]

I stopped by the San Francisco LVC shop today and caught wind of a sale in the works for this Fri, Sat, Sun. I'm not positive on the exact pieces involved, but 50% markdown was the hearsay. Best part, I found out that I could order it all over the phone and not have to drive back into the city. Just a heads up!

[Lex2]

i recently picked up a Levi's oxford type shirt, with "native' type colored stitching throughout the shirt, and was made in Portugal, seems consistent with other company's made in Portugal shirts, any information?

Probably the same contractor/source. At last count Levi's procured inventory from over 30 different countries. But being prudent operaters none of these countries accounts for more than 20% of their supply. But as far as I know they don't own or lease any manufacturing facilities in Portugal, so probably third party.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Lex2

[jewellben]

For me the 44's have much bigger thighs.

Should add that jewellben's 44's do look very similar to 47's in cut. They've been hot soaked?

Warm soaked - whilst wearing in the bath 12 months ago, I only wear these jeans as "best" so maybe 10 outings at the most. I picked up some 1947 in July which have been my go to jeans for the last 6 months. Post some snaps later.

[dr.house]

For me the 44's have much bigger thighs.

Should add that jewellben's 44's do look very similar to 47's in cut. They've been hot soaked?

44's got bigger thighs,but if you went tts you'll get a straight cut post soak with a higher rise, something like a mix of 47's and 55's legwise. Great cut by the way.

Edited December 15, 2011 by dr.house

[jewellben]

1944 has slightly bigger thighs. I went TTS for these and one up for the 1947.

Both side by side '44 on the left (34" waist) '47 on the right (36" waist)

Edited December 15, 2011 by jewellben

[jewellben]

6 months of almost daily wear 1947. These have been soaked and through the washing machine maybe 4/5 times. (need a new camera)

check out the hole friction between my belt buckle and the top button have created (only spotted today)

[grooveholmes]

mr. porter has lvc on sale. among them, 1954 501z's for $97.50 and 605 orange tabs for $75. they're not raw, but they look decent and at a steep discount.

http://www.mrporter.com/Shop/Sale/Clothing?designerFilter=Levis_Vintage_Clothing&sortBy=discount_perc-desc

Edited December 15, 2011 by grooveholmes

[setterman]

mr. porter has lvc on sale. among them, 1954 501z's for $97.50 and 605 orange tabs for $75. they're not raw, but they look decent and at a steep discount.

http://www.mrporter....count_perc-desc

Holy smokes, that red sweater it 70% off. Damn good price, now that the XXLs are sold out....

Place an order for the rinsed saw tooth. would prefer a raw one, but in my size and less than $60, couldn't pass it up...

Edited December 15, 2011 by setterman

[jewellben]

Shame these deals are not available in uk 😪

[Madder_Lake]

1944 has slightly bigger thighs. I went TTS for these and one up for the 1947.

Both side by side '44 on the left (34" waist) '47 on the right (36" waist)

these look great jewellben. Is the stitching on the 44's lemon yellow? it's not on mine, and the colour of my unwashed 44s looks identical to my 47's. In the sun I can see no difference in the fabric at all.

[RPMFG]

these lvc 605 orange tag have both inseam and outseam felled? do any other brands do this? I've never seen that before. not even really sure how it's possible to sew that.