The Flat Head

[cmboland]

That is a crazy amount of shrinkage even for Flat Head.  I'd wear 'em for a bit though, I definitely think the waist and thigh should shrink back to close to the pre-soak measurements.

 

This kind of stuff is why I don't want to bother with unsanforized denim anymore.  I hate the sizing guessing game (especially since I can't try stuff on first.)  Really, I wish all the retailers would just one-wash their unsanforized jeans to get most of the shrink out.

Usually i expect .75" of shink with the flat head denim. Everything is good. if anything stretches even a quarter inch it'll be better. Didnt have a problem buttoning or anything. I usually like unsanforized denim because it tends to stretch a bit everywhere it needs to better in my personal experience but this was crazy!

[Maynard Friedman]

What temperature did you wash them on? When I first washed my raw F350s (tagged 32) at 60C about 5 years ago, the waist shrank from 33.5 to 30.5, but I could still button them and they stretched back to tag quickly enough. This shrink/stretch cycle would happen on every subsequent wash/initial wear. On the whole though, they shrank too much all over for my taste and I threw them away after a few years. Admittedly the crotch had been repaired after a blow-out and the knees were in tatters!

[cmboland]

What temperature did you wash them on? When I first washed my raw F350s (tagged 32) at 60C about 5 years ago, the waist shrank from 33.5 to 30.5, but I could still button them and they stretched back to tag quickly enough. This shrink/stretch cycle would happen on every subsequent wash/initial wear. On the whole though, they shrank too much all over for my taste and I threw them away after a few years. Admittedly the crotch had been repaired after a blow-out and the knees were in tatters!

Pretty hot with alot of agitation. Whatever the "hot" on my washer said.  i wanted to get all the shrink out so nothing shifted.

[cmboland]

POST SOAK

ALOTTTT of shrink. More than expected. Did a hot machine soak with a lot of agitation.

Waist: 32"

Thigh 11.75"

Knee 8.4"

Hem 7.5"

Inseam 31.5"

 

After they dried i tried them on and really dont mind the fit. A tad tight but even if they stretch .25" theyll work. I know a lot of users dont dig this type of fit but its ok for me.

 

Random shots color corrected for accuracy

 

 

 

 

[youngofthesoonest]

dang that is a lot of shrink although based on the change in measurements for some reason i thought they would look a lot tighter. top block does look snug relative to the legs but that'll probably get better with wear.  

[MrWest]

Damn, that leg twist is crazy.

[cmboland]

Damn, that leg twist is crazy.

basically 90 degrees

[Cold Summer]

Looks pretty good to me.  I think that you'll be fine once they stretch out a bit.

[garden gnomes in space]

yup, once the top block stretches out, which it most likely will, the fit will be solid.

[mpukas]

+1 I too think the fit looks good. they'll stretch out your body after a few days and be perfect. 

[itsbenhere]

Kyle, you're right about unsanforized denim being really annoying and hard to size... but I don't think I'll ever go back to sanforized.  There's so much character when you get it loomstate!

 

This is also why I don't get how companies size their jeans.  The waist on an unsanforized pair is the only thing that will go back to presoak, and everything else will shrink and stay that way.  It only makes sense for the jean to be large relative to the waist, but for some reason most companies completely ignore that fact.

 

 I'd bet that most people, in order to get the thighs right, have to size up and sometimes swim in the waist.  Which is the worst feeling ever!

[cmboland]

Kyle, you're right about unsanforized denim being really annoying and hard to size... but I don't think I'll ever go back to sanforized. There's so much character when you get it loomstate!

This is also why I don't get how companies size their jeans. The waist on an unsanforized pair is the only thing that will go back to presoak, and everything else will shrink and stay that way. It only makes sense for the jean to be large relative to the waist, but for some reason most companies completely ignore that fact.

I'd bet that most people, in order to get the thighs right, have to size up and sometimes swim in the waist. Which is the worst feeling ever!

Yup. I agree. This is the first pair of FH that fit all over. I've tried 4 different cuts and all ended up either tight thighs or huge waist

[Maynard Friedman]

The waist on an unsanforized pair is the only thing that will go back to presoak, and everything else will shrink and stay that way.

This isn't true.

Any part of the jean that is put under pressure will stretch, often to the raw measurement and sometimes beyond. In my experience the waist and thighs always give, even in loose cuts that aren't tight to begin with. Knees, calves and the front and back rises will stretch too. Even inseams stretch slightly after washing and will do so more significantly if you pull them (although probably not back to raw). I frequently buy 2 pairs of the jeans I like and check the measurements of worn pairs against the raw ones, which is how I know this. There are variations in individual denims with regard to the amount of stretch the fabric surrenders easily and the amount you may have to fight for but that is up to the individual to decide when choosing cut, denim, etc. I buy looser cuts to fit comfortably, not tight and not baggy, but they stretch regardless.

[itsbenhere]

It also depends on the denim. I aim to not buy tighter cuts, ones that are only a close fit in the waist and loose everywhere else, so that's probably why I don't experience as much as stretch as others.

Sure you can stretch stuff like inseam, but it's not really natural/what's "supposed" to happen.

[Cold Summer]

In my experience, if a jean is tight in the mid-lower thigh (and anywhere below that) it won't stretch out at all (except for the knee.)

The top thigh will stretch because of pressure exerted when you spread your legs but it won't stretch beyond the first four inches or so.  I've had plenty of jeans (like the SE05BSP) that were loose in the top thigh but tight in the mid-lower thigh.  Of course, this is entirely because I have weird proportions (thighs that are longer than the cut accommodates, for example.)

[itsbenhere]

I agree with you Kyle... I'll add hip to the places I've noticed stretch. I have several pics of my jeans presoak and its clear to see that they've not stretched back to that point.

I really need to get mine hemmed but I'm afraid of making a mistake, and I can't just go to sela or denim doctors because I need the narrow hem distance. These are pretty much perfect but still haven't achieved the best fit since they need to be shorter. But I don't want to ship them and not wear them... Erg!

[itsbenhere]

Current fit pics... like I said, these are real perfect!

 

 

[jstavrin]

^Those look perfect. My height keeps me from ever wearing the 3005, unfortunately. That rise looks *so* low if you have particularly long legs. 

[garden gnomes in space]

that is a solid fit Ben.

[itsbenhere]

Thanks guys! This is my favorite fit I've ever had on a pair of jeans ever, and once I get around to hemming them to a 2" or so single cuff they'll be fire.

James, what about the 3003? It looks like it has a longer rise and even fuller legs than the 3005. More "repro" friendly I think considering the rise to fullness ratio... The 3005s are definitely best if you want a very full jean considering the average rise.

[itsbenhere]

Bumping these. Maybe my new favorite faded flat heads (for color)... This is why the pioneer denim is hands down my favorite of all time and you should wash your damn jeans.

Hey dudes,

 

Thought I'd share a sweet faded pair of 3001s from amongst the office samples.  These have been washed a bunch, really bringing out the great vertical fading texture - but the contrast is also really good. Aside from re-sizing and cropping, the photos haven't been edited at all, the colors are all very true to life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, a close-up shot of the denim.  I love this stuff.

 

  

And stumbled upon this a few posts down. Good and accurate info here MF...

Wash them. They'll shrink all over. The waist will stretch back easy but the thighs and legs won't.

[Maynard Friedman]

For those who missed this first time around. I've even highlighted the key word to make it a little easier to understand:

There are variations in individual denims with regard to the amount of stretch the fabric surrenders easily and the amount you may have to fight for but that is up to the individual to decide when choosing cut, denim.

[BAerts]

Ben, good to see a 3005 post, perfect fit.

FH became famous amongst Westerners for their slim fits. However, their fuller cuts are what really put them on the map. The 3005 was their very first, and the 3009 is their best seller in Japan. Both are amaaazing jeans. They somehow suit the repro itch without looking too costumey.

[chewie]

^agree with ben, that pair of fh is something special

@cmboland i like the fit on ya

Edited January 24, 2015 by chewie

[Cold Summer]

For what it's worth - the faded pair Ben reposted above looks so good partially because it was a very slim fit on the lady who wore those.  If it had been looser she couldn't have gotten such good contrast with frequent washing.  My current philosophy on washing is to go a pretty good amount of time before the first wash (4-6 months of real wear) to really set in the combs/whiskering, and then wash more frequently (once every 1-2 months) after that.  Once you get really defined creases they're never going away, so that increased washing can help to prolong the life of the denim and bring out more variation in the fabric, after you've done the heavy lifting, so to speak.

 

I've heard the thing about the 3009 being the most popular model in Japan but the 3005 is by far Flat Head's most successful model in Japan and is produced in much bigger production runs than other jeans.  After that is probably the 3001, then the 3009.  The reason for this is that compared to Americans/Europeans, far more Japanese wear engineer boots with their jeans and these work much better with the straight cuts (3005, 3003) and tight straight (3001, 1001) than tapered models. 

 

I'm going to be getting some 2111s next month - however, they're probably not going to get worn until next year since I'm focusing on my ST-121x right now. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by Cold Summer

[PicaldyW]

 

I'd like to share my F2005 (2+ years, many washes)

 

 

 

 

 

No Selvedge on outseam

 

 

 

[itsbenhere]

Not too shabby, I don't think I've ever seen a pair of 2005's.  Why no selvedge outseam?

[PicaldyW]

From what i know, they dont show the selvedge line to achieve a very slim silhouette as they are a quite skinny cut

[Foxy2]

Shouldn't the 2005 be like a 3005 in a different denim?

Maybe those jeans are altered/tapered...

Edit: apparently not with F2005!

Edited January 27, 2015 by Foxy2

[Cold Summer]

Yeah the F2005 is a really weird fit (and doesn't follow the usual naming convention.)  It's got a really tight leg with a loose waist.  Not sure who ever sold that model to begin with.  Great fades on those, though!