Roy. (expurgated edition)

[grooveholmes]

roy implied it on his website when he was on hiatus-- there was no way for him to manage all the day-to-day goings on and produce quality goods AND stay sane.

there is no price for peace of mind.

[tri]

Unfortunately I believe 300% or 400% markups are common in the fashion industry that's why they still make money in the sales season. But retailers have a lot of costs too, that's why you see shops closing all the time.

I don't know if it makes sense for an artisan or a very small business to use the same distribution strategy as larger players, now you can reach costumers directly through the Internet which was impossible some decades ago.

Selling to retail will increase the pressure to increase volume which leads to employ people which leads to increase fixed costs. Which ultimately leads to subcontract production to where wages are lower...

[cruel_angel]

Unfortunately I believe 300% or 400% markups are common in the fashion industry that's why they still make money in the sales season. But retailers have a lot of costs too, that's why you see shops closing all the time.

I don't know if it makes sense for an artisan or a very small business to use the same distribution strategy as larger players, now you can reach costumers directly through the Internet which was impossible some decades ago.

Selling to retail will increase the pressure to increase volume which leads to employ people which leads to increase fixed costs. Which ultimately leads to subcontract production to where wages are lower...

The real unfortunate thing is that you believe retailers have 300-400% margins. If people were making that kinda money selling jeans, everybody would be doing it.

[zissou]

As always, there is a lot of truth in what kiya says. As a smaller example, I make small leather goods as a side hobby (this is not a commercial). I have a long list of things that I'd like to try making, but designing, making, marketing, selling, and shipping the few little things I do make takes up far more time than I really have. Hell, I'd love it if someone else said they'd handle all of the selling aspect for me, even if it meant taking a slight cut in what I make. The few times I have wholesaled to web shops, they wind up selling my stuff for almost twice what I do. That's just the way it goes.

[tri]

The real unfortunate thing is that you believe retailers have 300-400% margins. If people were making that kinda money selling jeans, everybody would be doing it.

Markup is relation between the selling price and the buying price. Should you read it again maybe you will notice that 300% or 400% margins weren't mentioned.

[roy6]

Has everyone forgotten how lame rnr's fits are?

[TallyHo]

to my knowledge (from working in retail, and from friends who own retail stores), standard retail markup is 110%. this is a general guideline, but of course, can vary greatly. while i have a deep appreciation for good retail, anytime i find a product to lust after, i always (without fail), lament the fact that there is not some way to buy directly from the manufacturer for about half the price (wholesale). the guitar that costs $1500? that's about $700 wholesale. the jeans that cost $315? that's $150 wholesale. and so on...

we were lucky to have this opportunity with roy.

the $275 price point makes perfect sense to me, given that there is now a retailer involved. assuming a 110% markup, SE is buying these at $130/pair.

with no disrespect to SE (in fact, respect for picking up an awesome line!), this makes me a bit sad for roy. the snowball was just gathering momentum for him, and a price increase to $200/pair would have tempered the onslaught and put more money in his pocket (if my calculations are anywhere near accurate, this would have doubled his margin). of course, being on the shelves at SE is gonna expand his brand awareness, but the innumerable fresh pairs that showed up on sufu doorsteps would have certainly led to a groundswell of interest on its own.

my suggestion? everyone who bought a pair before gets VIP status and can order pairs wholesale for life!

[rnrswitch]

Has everyone forgotten how lame rnr's fits are?

Exactly.

This capitalism, small business, marketing strategy seminar is getting boring.

Did anybody see what a retard (no offense to real retards) I looked like in my last getup?

[TallyHo]

i can tell you're lame by the way you wear your shorts.

[rnrswitch]

i can tell you're lame by the way you wear your shorts.

Barney....

[tri]

to my knowledge (from working in retail, and from friends who own retail stores), standard retail markup is 110%. this is a general guideline, but of course, can vary greatly.

Ok, I thought markups were higher. Thanks for the info.

[ranonranonarat]

Exactly.

This capitalism, small business, marketing strategy seminar is getting boring.

Did anybody see what a retard (no offense to real retards) I looked like in my last getup?

wear your duck pants on your head. i would love to see that so i can stop talking about this whole hoo ha. i promise.

[TallyHo]

haole to you too!

[roy6]

It's actually an interesting conversation, but it does start going around in circles after a while.

ROY has been Selfedged.

Some who liked him before for certain reasons will like him less, some more, some won't care.

We'll just have to wait and see how much of ROYs character continues to be reflected in his products at one remove, and if that counteracts the price increase that comes with a retailing middle-man, That price increase would probably be about the same no matter where ROY was retailing, I'll bet, for what that's worth: almost 100%.

[grooveholmes]

what a poseur.

[Vinneus]

:eek: MID 40's CUT :eek:

[roy6]

what a poseur.

Who... me?

[aho]

ugh, can't wait for that mid-40's cut!

[grooveholmes]

nope. a failed attempt at sarcasm directed at the north shore screenshot.

[roy6]

^sarcasm acknowledged.

[grooveholmes]

^repper. (must spread)

[paulduke04]

with no disrespect to SE (in fact, respect for picking up an awesome line!), this makes me a bit sad for roy. the snowball was just gathering momentum for him, and a price increase to $200/pair would have tempered the onslaught and put more money in his pocket (if my calculations are anywhere near accurate, this would have doubled his margin). of course, being on the shelves at SE is gonna expand his brand awareness, but the innumerable fresh pairs that showed up on sufu doorsteps would have certainly led to a groundswell of interest on its own.

I concur with Mr Ho. And now, I have this one nagging thought/question. It applies to the notion (which Mr. Kiya brought up) that Mr Slaper will work on newer cuts, shirts, etc, all the while enjoying himself more. How can Mr Slaper continue to manufacture everything himself, while meeting the demands of retail and increased product line? Sure, I understand that he can make multiple standard sizes (32x36, 33x36, etc or whatever,) but can that significantly increase efficiency as opposed to making one 30x38 pair and then moving on to making a 35x34 pair. I personally feel that I would have been happier if he had hired one or two people and still operated out of his Oakland shop. (no offense to SE, I'm not here to bash your business)

Perhaps, Mr Slaper underestimated the viral marketing power SUFU community and the power of internet retail. As well as the fragility of brand loyalty, as evidenced by many who feel ROY no longer stands out from other well-made jeans.

[yliafp]

can i point out that as logical as kiya sounds, i dont think he could have an unbiased response to this?

I can understand why Roy would need to increase the price to make full-time jean making a viable career choice, but how would you guys feel about the price increase if he did not collaborate with SE?

edit:

this isnt a challenge or debate or anything, i'm really just curious

[Medine]

my suggestion? everyone who bought a pair before gets VIP status and can order pairs wholesale for life!

I completely agree

[rnrswitch]

can i point out that as logical as kiya sounds, i dont think he could have an unbiased response to this?

I can understand why Roy would need to increase the price to make full-time jean making a viable career choice, but how would you guys feel about the price increase if he did not collaborate with SE?

edit:

this isnt a challenge or debate or anything, i'm really just curious

For me. I would much rather fork over $275 to ROY. To me, and I know this is sacrilege, but Iron Heart, Sugar Cane, Flat head, they don't deserve to be in the same room as ROYs. Not even the same building. Same article of clothing, but a different soul.

Chandler would call me a "soul denim-er," to get back to North Shore references.

[ranonranonarat]

For me. I would much rather fork over $275 to ROY.

this is the only non retarded thing you've said on this forum. HAHAHA.

[aho]

Whether through SE or Roy himself, I'm thirsting for another pair as mine were unfairly undersized in the waist moreso than I was expecting (started out at 31 on a size 32 somehow) forcing me to sell...If Roy wants to give me a discount for being an OG supporter, of course that'd make me all the merrier. And in a 1944 cut? And custom details (wishful thinking)? Hell yeah I'm gonna support the man!

At the end of the day as Roy said, don't hate...You can either choose to buy a pair or not...And I know what I'm choosing!

[mikecch]

^ I'm almost in the same boat - my Roy's ended up 1 to 2 cm shorter in the inseam after a soak and a wash than I would have preferred

[grooveholmes]

Does ANYone have a completely unbiased view towards anything? Ruminate on that, grasshoppa.

Roy had some options and he chose this one. He can probably change his mind if he feels this isn't working out. So far, it appears to be something that benefits him and his future plans. I will pay for his jeans, Self Edge or no. Speaking of paying him directly, any Oaklanders willing to make a proxy trip to his shop about a month from now? PM me...

[arya_triad]

some evo pics of my ROY!

wearing 'em since end of june, 5 days a week.

patched a hole on my back pocket using SC hawaii denim:

Cheers!