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Vintage Denim?


johnmc

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On 10/7/2024 at 3:43 AM, aho said:

Nice overview of jackets, unfortunately in Japanese w/no subtitles. One of these days I should offer to translate and post to sufu for posterity 😂
 


Some great insights here that should've been obvious to me but I didn't think about all these years, for example, the Lee Riders jacket was the most advanced/functional between the three brands and was basically unchanged in design. The Levi's type 3 released 10-12 years later (apologies typing from memory here) is basically an admission that the Lee jacket was superior and nearly all the design cues on the type 3 were informed by it...

 

Shame there's no translation with it but l certainly get the gist. I always thought there was some major battles going on between Lee and Levis during the 1930s and 40s and l always thought that the levis Type 2 was a quickly cobbled together response to Lee's more stylish looking 101-J Riders jacket. Mind you, the 101-J Cowboy jacket of the late 1920s up until the end of WW2 was almost a direct copy of the Type 1 as it wasn't a patented design, whereas the New Lee Riders jacket was!  Plus the denim used to make Lee products was sanforized whereas Levis was STF, so the Riders 101-J could be more body hugging and looked more stylish than the outdated pleated styles that had gone before.

Here are some snaps of another early 101-J Riders (c.1945) with the older stock Cowboy buttons. Luckily this one is a rare unwashed example which still has the Patent pending label present. First time l've seen one (thanks to Arakawavintage)

 

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All this, then in 1959 Lee brought out its Westerner range with colourfull vat-dyed jackets and matching trousers whereas Levis had to wait for the Type 3's release in 1961 before it could do the same.

As a side note,  l recently discovered that the Type 3's designer was Jack Lucier, son of red tab inventor Chris Lucier.

 

 

Edited by Dr_Heech
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On 10/7/2024 at 3:43 AM, aho said:

Nice overview of jackets, unfortunately in Japanese w/no subtitles. One of these days I should offer to translate and post to sufu for posterity 😂
 

@Dr_Heech

Open the page on YT

Click Settings instead of CC

Click Subtitles

Click Japanese Auto Generated

Click Subtitles again

Click Auto Translate

Choose language

Hey Presto!

Edited by Double 0 Soul
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  • 2 weeks later...

Lovely pic of the earliest readable vintage Levis 506 jacket patch. It's a clearer image from the unwashed 1927 first pocket flapped 506xx that l posted some pages back. It is rare insomuch as it has Copper Riveted and 'Size' 36 meaning it was used exclusively for jackets. This label is thought to be used until c.1936 when levis started to use the same Two horse patch that was used on 501's at the time to use on jackets also,  which is what we're usually used to seeing on a 506. 

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nice selection/collection @paulm and thanks for posting - why not putting these in the 'how many jeans do you own' thread... this thread is for the golden oldies not the repros (although 90s/00s repros are now approaching vintage status) - or am I a total idiot [most likely] and these are all in that oldie status as many are pre arc lawsuit? 

Edited by bartlebyyphonics
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18 minutes ago, bartlebyyphonics said:

nice selection/collection @paulm and thanks for posting - why not putting these in the 'how many jeans do you own' thread... this thread is for the golden oldies not the repros (although 90s/00s repros are now approaching vintage status) - or am I a total idiot [most likely] and these are all in that oldie status as many are pre arc lawsuit? 

 

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Drawing a line can be controversial

50 years feels right to me - but then I talk to folks who collect sneakers, outdoor apparel, video games, trading cards - it's tricky

There are probably more fitting threads for those jeans though - most of us come here for the real old stuff

 

I ask myself, how many times was OSHA violated in these jeans?

Oh? OSHA didn't exist? Okay, they're vintage

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here are some nicer images of the $240k 1890's recently discussed in the other thread,  before they disappear into some museum. These courtesy of mushroom vintage.

2 notable things for me. The close up of the crotch construction with what looks like a gusset(?) type thing going on - where's @Sansome1877 when you need him? Secondly, is that a pair of og canvas one pocket duck pants in the first shot? Guy must have spent a fortune.

 

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22 minutes ago, julian-wolf said:

The gusset almost looks after-market??

Actually there are two similar pairs in the 501XX book #1 and #51 and pair #1 have a similar gusset type crotch, albeit a single line of stitching rather than the two rows of stitching along the centre line from crotch to waistband at rear.

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The gusset has been done.. albeit not an exact repro of the above.. bob dale thrifted a pair of single pocket LVC samples with the crotch gusset.. also, remember those SE x SC with the bright yellow pocket bags from 2009 (ish) era?.. i seem to remember, they had a small crotch gusset but i can't seem to remember the SC number? .. someone will chime in :D

edit- or was it a crotch reinforcement?.. i can't remember

Edited by Double 0 Soul
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My guess is the upcoming "Amoskeag" Ooe pairs will be similar, though it isn't clear what exact year they'll be based on. Would be cool if they have the gusset as well, they've done some good AHEM...crotch work...and button fly work in the past

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I didn't know, what a gusset is in German, so I looked it up: it's called "Zwickel". Had never heard that word before.
There is also a kind of beer called "Zwickl", which is a test siphoning off, a sample of the young beer, before filtration, which is a beer in its own right now. In this case Zwickl refers to the tap through which the beer is siphoned off. Not sure, if these two words are related.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/23/2024 at 12:31 PM, Dr_Heech said:

Lvc 1937 at the bottom, Csf 1941 in the middle and FW42's at the top. Both the repro 37 and 42 models have the standard yoke set up, whereas the pair in the middle do not.

The standard yoke set up is what we are used to seeing on 501's made from August 1942 up until the present day which sees the bottom panels overlap the top ones, like on the lvc 37's and FW42's shown.

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The non-standard yoke set up is the csf 1941 pair in the middle. It sees the top panels overlapping the lower ones, a feature which just about 99% of the denim pants manufacturers used in their jeans construction at the time, only levis waited until c.1940 to do it, then flipped it back c.April 1942. 

 

Hopefully cleared all that up now 🙃

 

@indigoeagle here is a YouTube video of the forthcoming SC42 model and they discuss the differences between the Levi's 37, 41 and 42 models. 

Edited by Dr_Heech
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