japan :: tokyo :: general

[herpsky]

are you looking for converse addicts?

[djrajio]

Met a bunch of VC entrepreneurs at a bday party at R2 last night.

One dude was a baller. Sold a bunch of start-ups in the Silicon Valley and now trying to start a VC incubator in Tokyo.

Lives in midtown and travels back and forth to SF to manage his companies.

Very nerdy guy but at the time super passionate about what he's doing which is awesome and inspiring.

I'm realizing more and more how I need to follow my passions and the money will naturally come....

[raddy]

That's pretty awesome to hear; I've always felt Japan is pretty lacking in the start-up scene particularly tech/finance. It would be sweet to have some people to grab a drink, brainstorm and nerd out with if he succeeds in getting a micro-startup scene going on. Is his plan to do it Y-combinator style with a bunch of seasonal classes or is he looking to invest in select operations? (Or bring over teams from the US?)

Plus, it would maybe make it less stigmatic for me to hang out in cafes coding.

[djrajio]

looking to invest in select start-ups that need between $1m~$4m in Tokyo

[djrajio]

there are already a bunch of like-minded dudes in Tokyo. j-ventures, tokyo entreprenuers club, etc. but yeah, its light-years behind the silicon valley/SF start-up culture.

Edited April 3, 2012 by djrajio

[djrajio]

Ugh, they are opening up a Saturday Surf in Daikanyama. Quiet possibly one of the worst things I've heard in a while. I give the "trend" 1-2 years.

http://www.honeyee.com/feature/2012/saturdays_surf_nyc/

[conqueror]

that brand has seemed to have blown up everywhere (even places like australia with its own surf culture/brands) in the last year or so - don't really get why. i guess i can see how it would go well in japan, though.

Edited April 5, 2012 by conqueror

[djrajio]

Warp magazine this month had a full feature on Saturday's Surf NYC. I honestly don't understand the culture. Surfing is from LA/West Coast. Will always be. I don't this uptown/surfing culture thing that going on. I feel Japanese hipster will appropriate this wrongly like they did fixi culture and start trying to surf Tokyo bay.

[1M]

Warp magazine this month had a full feature on Saturday's Surf NYC. I honestly don't understand the culture. Surfing is from LA/West Coast. Will always be. I don't this uptown/surfing culture thing that going on. I feel Japanese hipster will appropriate this wrongly like they did fixi culture and start trying to surf Tokyo bay.

nyc might not have the west coast culture, but plenty of people do surf. it's a trendy cool guy boutique with a surf theme, similar to what supreme has become. though both shops actually carry several goods for their "theme"..

[DaBestSpoona]

Warp magazine this month had a full feature on Saturday's Surf NYC. I honestly don't understand the culture. Surfing is from LA/West Coast. Will always be. I don't this uptown/surfing culture thing that going on. I feel Japanese hipster will appropriate this wrongly like they did fixi culture and start trying to surf Tokyo bay.

People in Long Island surf.

I predict its the next failure to hit Tokyo, its basically along the lines of Steven Alan, Jcrew. Maybe it will become the next salaryman brand.

[conqueror]

even with a hike in prices for the jp market, isn't all of it pretty affordable (even cheaper than stuff like supreme)? seems like it could fit a niche of slightly better than uniqlo/muji but not as pricey as other coveted american casual brands (something like ralph lauren's polo line).

[djrajio]

i guess so. but i still don't understand the "culture" of this brand. what is it supposed to represent?

[breams]

Working a shit job so you can surf on Saturday.

[djrajio]

coolio.

[herpsky]

I think the growing popularity of saturdays surf shop has a lot to do with ステルスマーケティング。

I had NEVER heard of saturdays until I read an article in some Japanese "cool-guy" magazine a couple of years ago. Right after the article came out, a bunch of dudes who work in the industry e.g. stylists, SAs, hairstylists started rocking those "surf / NYC" tees and big / influential retailers like Beams T picked up saturdays accounts.

It's kinda like how Dentsu did a shit ton of ステマ to make AKB48 a multi-million-dollar money making monster (albeit the controversy).

It's kind of like a rite of passage. A screening process by Japanese "hipsters" is a must before things can be deemed cool by the rest of the world. Weird, I know. But think about supreme and how it got popular. Why were there so many supreme locations in Japan while the rest of the world didn't have a single account for like 10 years?

The history of urahara is very interesting. No one knows much about it... No internet back then.

Still curious about the whole yakuza-urahara connection and how HF set up the ground work to make tokyo the #1 cool-guy central of the world... I've never read his autobiography but apparently it totally sucks and says nothing about what the dude did.

Edited April 6, 2012 by herpsky

[djrajio]

really? I kinda feel its the opposite. or maybe some sort of feeback-loop. I mean supreme has always been cool since the beginning. It sort of saw a downturn post lehman crisis but with the advent of odd future/asap rocky to become more noticable to the mainstream in the last 2 years. I feel the japanese are really just appropriating the style again and copying what is cool in NYC. I think the same could be said about Saturday's surf. I suppose a certain group of Japanese style makers who have connections w/ the right people in NYC appropriated the style. Then NYC dudes see jap-kids rocking it and then they re-appropriate it. And it just feed's on itself in a constant loop....

[Statham_Race]

The general opinion is that buying/wearing SSNYC a faux pas, then? Or is it just that the backlash isn't going to start itself...

I just picked up a pair of navy/burgundy swim shorts from their online store which are quite nice looking and relatively unbranded (although the fit is funny so I'm taking them to Sarto to get a nip tuck).

[Statham_Race]

I really hate that Superfuture forces me to write in lowercase. The hallmark of the worst type of hipster.

[djrajio]

i dont think there is any backlash per se. I just personally don't like/agree w/ the brand.

[Statham_Race]

I suppose it might be a little contrived. NYC hipsters playing at being "surf guys".

Perhaps I'll have to gym up and buy a pair of orlebar browns.

Any other tips on good swim apparel? I'm taking Golden Week in Singapore and expect to be spending a lot of time by the pool.

[1M]

really? I kinda feel its the opposite. or maybe some sort of feeback-loop. I mean supreme has always been cool since the beginning. It sort of saw a downturn post lehman crisis but with the advent of odd future/asap rocky to become more noticable to the mainstream in the last 2 years. I feel the japanese are really just appropriating the style again and copying what is cool in NYC. I think the same could be said about Saturday's surf. I suppose a certain group of Japanese style makers who have connections w/ the right people in NYC appropriated the style. Then NYC dudes see jap-kids rocking it and then they re-appropriate it. And it just feed's on itself in a constant loop....

you're absolutely right. people that know the deal know that it took japan to make supreme what it is.

[SSchadenfreude]

it is a cycle these days, or say maybe since 5 years ago (it has been in all industries since the dawn of commerce, but we are able to comprehend and explain shit better...that's all). i'm not certain if supreme had the ability to read into this in the past/from alittle after the dawn of the label's conception, but one thing i am certain of is the that they did infact open doors throughout japan for the sake of profit. obviously they had more street cred (fabricated or not, this is of little consequence since this is typical practice not including the luck factor) than other labels, so yes, it was a good gamble and they have maintained sustainability. it's merely the industry's royalty and certain dynasties protecting their financial interests. and it's not only about protecting and sustaining their interests, but about profiting (from way back when, now and future projections) today, no matter how low the margin is compared to back in the "golden days."

scraps for thought...why is neighborhood still somewhat able to survive and support random new ventures?? is it old harajuku boy mentality protecting it's parallel members or biz philosophy? OR maybe it is a combo of this and japanese die-hard pride coupled with residual profit from the golden age half dead and gone?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Woogie

[djrajio]

i think they are to able to survive because they stay small and don't try to reach beyond their means.

same goes for most ura-hara brands these days w/ the exception of maybe bape and undercover.

[SSchadenfreude]

i think they are to able to survive because they stay small and don't try to reach beyond their means.

same goes for most ura-hara brands these days w/ the exception of maybe bape and undercover.

staying small, specifically meaning that they haven't opened actual doors outside of japan... they were big though, money wise and distro wise that is.

straying from subject a bit, but imo bape and like brands (b-kei) died because hiphop (as much as they preach/claim that it is a culture not just for blacks/african blooded individuals..in general) is not sustainable in a shrinking internet/media fueled world. "punkrock" or it's image is, because it has always seemed/and seems multiculture...or at least more accessible...multi-culturally accessible that is. an asian or japanese has a much easier time claiming punkrok than he has hiphop (and i'm not talking jap-rap). maybe this is why uc is able to survive whilst bape is a mere shadow of it's former glory not to mention that it is owned by chinese (and we all know what this means).

for example, i'm fairly certain that neigborhood or uc would not champion nor sponsor poser accessible bands considered "punk" by ignorant consumers such as blink 183 or whatever fairy jerk offs are on mtv.

it goes back to the notion of the japanese use of "concept." nigo was the modern day japanese warhol. jun takahashi was a semi deshi of the neo house of cdg with og roots in the tokyo sex ps. the lines of hiphop thanks to this modern age via kanye has infiltrated the high fashion realm. uc while transitioning from street to the paris collection circut still is "punkrock" with the necessary roots and social cred. nbhd's imagery has always been hard-kei...although they were in the "street" circles. probably one of the first semi-og labels to not be daboX2 and hiphop-pop. let's face it, it is simpler to incorporate their articles in one's wardrobe (of any genre) than that of bape. in short, neighborhood and uc still was able to hold onto an identity or a socially ageless or unaffected concept(s). not saying they don't make moves or investments in the interest of profits, but brands like bape seemed way more image conscious or more swift to please on their knees.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Woogie

[djrajio]

I don't agree that hiphop killed BAPE. By the time Nigo had Pharrell et. al. wearing the clothing in the mid-noughties the label had already reached a saturation point in Japan. He had already done collaborations w/ Pepsi, etc., so the label was already really mainstream. Really The Designers Republic saying "Pop Will Eat Itself" really rings true here. Nigo basically killed himself by allowing his brand to be appropriated more and more to the masses using hip-hop as an outlet really. It could have been surfer culture, skate culture, whatever. But he selected hip-hop because, IMO, it was easy at the time. Had he kept it limited to just Japan but allowed Westerners to essentially sample select aspects of the label rather than opening an accessible store in SoHo and L.A. I think the result would have been a lot different.

Jun on the other hand, while I agree w/ you on the neo house CDG/punk-rock roots, took to the high-street/Paris and was able to successfully transition into a Japanese high-fashion brand. I think a credit to his success is that he's continues to limit the distribution of his product (only a main store in Aoyama) and at least for many recent collections like the Less is Better S/S 2010, he's willing to take risks and push the envelope of his core-brand identity and design aesthetic. Though I would argue the Less is Better collection has been the last really great collection from Undercover with recent collections very uninspiring/lazy. Therefore you could argue that BAPE's inability to reinvent itself was also a reason for its detriment.

[conqueror]

yeah, i don't think hip hop killed bape per se, but overexposure definitely made it 'uncool' and oversaturated for a while (remember how rampant fake bape camo hoods in neon colours were about 4-5 years ago?). then in the last year or so its sort of been 'rediscovered' by hip hop heads and has become seen as a dope label again, except the less gaudy shit and just more subtle streetwear like the camo joints. if you posted a fit on here about 1.5 years ago wearing bape, no one would take notice or you'd prob be negged - post one now (e.g. bape camo jacket) and dudes will be swinging off your nuts. obv people were wearing that shit in the 90's (j lavelle) but it wasn't til lil wayne and those du's were rocking it head to toe that they exploded - at that point i think nigo was so ridiculously loaded and respected (in most circles, and still today to an extent) that he just didn't give a shit anymore and whored the brand out. i think the same thing could potentially happen with supreme and odd future - its popularity is getting to ridiculous levels and i think it will just implode eventually and every average tyler fan will stop giving a shit in a year or two. basically like raj said with everything being an endless loop/cycle.

one thing i've been interested in is shit like supreme being big in jp, obv alot of it is actually because people think its decent, but alot of it is simply because it is an american brand. bape was japanese, and i don't think the average dude (someone who isn't into fashion) had any idea they were japanese (or didn't care) and that didn't really add to the image. western dudes into fashion are the same with jp labels though, like i don't think some shit as undercover would be as huge if jun was some euro dude called john and was based out of london. i still think there is some sort of 'exotic' allure of jp labels to the western consumer (one's that know what's up), just as there is the allure of a dude in tokyo wearing anything from supreme to lv. obviously exclusivity and how hard something is to get adds to this, but i still think pure geographic location/background adds alot to it.

Edited April 6, 2012 by conqueror

[djrajio]

I agree with you on the grass is always cooler on the other side. Japanese dudes love americana and aspects of American culture. Well actually anything foreign really. I think the whole resurgence of Supreme is really interesting to be honest because its always been somewhat subversive in popular culture despite sudden spikes in popularity. You never saw a huge mainstream artist/celebrity use it to definite their identity rather Supreme was merely a social-nod to those in the know i.e. Peter Saville rocking BAPE on the cover of Raygun, etc.. Sure you had Kate moss t-shirts and collabs w/ major artists/celebrities but they always have this ability to keep it limited and somewhat out of reach. That is testament to Supreme's marketing savvy really. But agree with you on the allure of dudes in Tokyo wearing anything from Supreme. The same goes from NYC guys rocking Jap labels.

[SSchadenfreude]

I don't agree that hiphop killed BAPE. By the time Nigo had Pharrell et. al. wearing the clothing in the mid-noughties the label had already reached a saturation point in Japan. He had already done collaborations w/ Pepsi, etc., so the label was already really mainstream. Really The Designers Republic saying "Pop Will Eat Itself" really rings true here. Nigo basically killed himself by allowing his brand to be appropriated more and more to the masses using hip-hop as an outlet really. It could have been surfer culture, skate culture, whatever. But he selected hip-hop because, IMO, it was easy at the time. Had he kept it limited to just Japan but allowed Westerners to essentially sample select aspects of the label rather than opening an accessible store in SoHo and L.A. I think the result would have been a lot different.

Jun on the other hand, while I agree w/ you on the neo house CDG/punk-rock roots, took to the high-street/Paris and was able to successfully transition into a Japanese high-fashion brand. I think a credit to his success is that he's continues to limit the distribution of his product (only a main store in Aoyama) and at least for many recent collections like the Less is Better S/S 2010, he's willing to take risks and push the envelope of his core-brand identity and design aesthetic. Though I would argue the Less is Better collection has been the last really great collection from Undercover with recent collections very uninspiring/lazy. Therefore you could argue that BAPE's inability to reinvent itself was also a reason for its detriment.

my theory wasn't definitive that hiphop killed bape per se. sure it's a case by case study, but what solely hiphop rooted label, "concept" wise has actually stood the test of time? maybe phenomenon because they changed and reinvented themselves just in time. how? with punkrock and electro imagery. nigo didn't just allow his brand to be appropriated by hiphop, but actually was hiphop from the start. i do think you're right about distro though, but hypothetically if he didn't open doors in other countries, would bape still be the force it once was? supreme and uc possess intl doors, yet they still survive/thrive. the anti marketing shtick worked out cause of timing imo.

[herpsky]

speaking of bape, i bought a bape x built electronics case not too long ago.

it's dope.

[jl3969]

what do you guys think about mastermind japan? i never really knew how popular they were in japan, but the reseller market loves them. easily recognizable branding in basics w/ generic shapes.