Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Happy Hooligan]

Has anyone taken a look at the actual cotton and how it's changed throughout the period?

Obvious, the cotton of the 20's through 40's would have been organic, while the 50's through today brought changes in genetics through hybrids and various other factors.

[colgems1966]

What I'm getting at is that there is a clear difference in denim quality in todays stuff and the denim from back then..from what I can see the 60's stuff was hairier and more stiff and all round feels like a better quality product. I am curious as i want to own a pair of jeans like this with out having to pay over $1000 Was production different back then? Cone denim can't of changed there production that much over the years...

what PaulT said is right. the hairiness is not a sign of quality, it is a sign of short staple cotton that was left unsinged. technically speaking it would be of lower quality. but like ring-spun denim gives surface appeal, hairy denim is interesting and gives a vintage look. only be aware that as the surface gets wear it will smooth out. again, if you can find them the LVC Japan 66 501's are the hairiest repros i've seen. they look exactly like the denim in the photos you posted and are a deep blue/black in their unwashed state. the 505's i used to wear in the late 70's had that same look too. dark and hairy.

[Paul T]

555 55, and late 60s 302

It may be a coincidence but I know Ralph Tharpe, who was responsible for tech research at Cone, doesn't like hairy denim! I think it's an old-school thing in that at one time it was seen as a flaw and a mark of short staple cotton.

I find it hard to judge from new denim, because the true look of the fuzziness doesn't really come thru until it's soaked.

As mentioned before, my son is a few months into his 302, which are from the late 60s, and it's a great way to see true vintage denim wear in. It's definitely most like my recent 55; grainier and not as rich-looking as the 44. Like the Roy x Cone it looks hugely different in different light, sometimes very blue, sometimes steely grey. It also looks very 'plain' - unlike so many Japanese jeans, especially Samurai.

Most recent wear pic.

[bluegoldblues]

Has anyone taken a look at the actual cotton and how it's changed throughout the period? .

I think its interesting you mention that, don't think there is comprehensive data in regards to vintage fabric. We talk about the designs regularly but rarely the fabrics.

I would wear a lot more repro stuff If I knew the denim was being made in the same way/ on the same machines, quite geeky I know but would be very authentic-not sure how possible that is really, they scrapped the old looms didnt they?

I look at those 1 pocket 1890? LVC from time to time and think that back in the day they must of felt soooo different then, the older you go the better quality the jeans are and there is a reason for that... it wasn't called the two horse brand for no reason. check this video

Paul, your sons 302's are looking great, what happened to the match pocket rivet? I have a pair of deadstock 302's lying around, was going to do a comparison for the blog with an amazing completely worn out pair in a vintage boutique on brick lane but they were sold for £300(yes, really!!) before I even got round to it! `going back to those 302's theres something about vintage wear that is amazing, its very subtle but you can deff notice the'vintage fades'.

[bluegoldblues]

off topic has anyone been to Levis flagship on Regent street,London? apparently they have a 100 year old pair of 201 from lynn downey's archive for sale/display??? Can anyone confirm this, might pop in town today and check them out, hope its worth the tube journey! might throw denmark street in there too.

[Paul T]

I think its interesting you mention that, don't think there is comprehensive data in regards to vintage fabric. We talk about the designs regularly but rarely the fabrics.

I would wear a lot more repro stuff If I knew the denim was being made in the same way/ on the same machines, quite geeky I know but would be very authentic-not sure how possible that is really, they scrapped the old looms didnt they?

THey kept a number of the old looms - that's what they use today. They date from the 50s. There is a huge amount of research done by Cone and others (check out the Cone Q&A on my site, and Ralph's Q&A on the ROy thread) on every aspect of the old denim, particularly the looms, the tension, the slubs, the neps, the dyeing method and the cotton. Cone do go to a lot of trouble to replicate the different phases of the denim - especially once you wear the fabric, you realise what a huge difference there is between 1915, 1933, 1937, 47, 55 (I've not worn the 66).

But, altho the looms are old, other parts have moved on. The way the cotton is spun is far more high-tech, and programmed via computer (in both Japan and the US). The hardest part to replicate is the cotton itself - Cone only tend to use US cotton, from the Carolinas, Texas, but every year the cotton will vary, so I suspect that alone will make a significant difference from the vintage stuff. Ralph was doing DNA analysis of some of the very early scraps that Mike Harris had found - it would be fascinating to know what strain of cotton that was.

Carolinas cotton in particular probably cross-bred with Sea Island cotton up to the 20s or so - there was a lot of crossing between the different types, so you'd get a continuous range of staple lengths. But Sea Island itself is gone forever - Pima is taken from a strain of G Barbadense that was developed from Sea Island in Egypt, then selected and developed once again in the US. But it's not the same as the old Sea Island, could never be. Meanwhile, all the other G Hirsutum varieties will have continued to change, too. To get an idea of the complexity of all these variables, take a look at the Sea Island cotton book, it's pretty mind-boggling (altho unpleasant in part, as the development of Sea Island relied heavily on slavery).

With the Roy x Cone, part of the ethos was to use Pima in denim (altho we don't know for definite that pure Sea Island was ever used in denim as it was always a premium type), to give more of a Sea Island vibe. But, as ever, it's an interpretation rather than a recreation.

All that said, it doesn't matter that much to me personally, as long as the finished product is near enough. I prefer wearing LVC to my old jeans (I did at one point own an 'every garment guaranteed pair") simpky because I can get exactly the right size. I do plan to switch back to Japanese denim next year, for a change from Cone, and it will be great to see that interpretation, too. But essentially, compared to a decade or two ago, we are spoilt for choice today.

off topic has anyone been to Levis flagship on Regent street,London? apparently they have a 100 year old pair of 201 from lynn downey's archive for sale/display???

I think I've seen that pair before, if they're actually on sale maybe I'll buy them!

[patchmb]

Went into what was cinch today. Some really nice items in there.

Gf really liked the women's made & crafted stuff downstairs. Shop was doing brisk business & I think the Lee store round the corner has missed a trick as they have scaled their Archive range down to practically nothing.

[WhiskeySD]

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone has seen the new raw selvedge trucker jackets they put on the levis site. It says they are made from cone denim. I wonder how they compare to the LVC type 3.

http://us.levi.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10940722&cp=3146842.3146845.3146860.3692021

[jyoni]

Paul, I'm trying to sell my size 40 lvc. Has this size been discontinued since moving production away from Taylor Toggs? There don't seem to be any out there in recent seasons.

Just wondering, it might be a positive selling point for them.

[jewellben]

Went into what was cinch today. Some really nice items in there.

Gf really liked the women's made & crafted stuff downstairs. Shop was doing brisk business & I think the Lee store round the corner has missed a trick as they have scaled their Archive range down to practically nothing.

I'm looking forward to spending some of my hard earned in there next weekend. I'm hoping they have some 34 waist 38 leg - in any of the post 33 models

[Stratos]

what the hell is this guy thinking to selling this for us 3000 O_o...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Levis-Vintage-Clothing-1886Nevada-clot-neighborhood-lvc-/140521308636?pt=US_CSA_MC_Jeans&hash=item20b7b901dc

I contacted him on Friday. Price is 'down' to 2000 now and he removed the comment that said 3000 was their retail price ^^

[Dr_Heech]

Just picked up these, won on ebay. Early boxed 55's from 09/96, with the earlier orange waist tag (later ones were salmon pink) and A4 size sticker.

This one represents the denim best. Will endeavour to post some better pics at some point. Denim is on point.

.

[Paul T]

Lovely. Do they have the 'stagger" where the yoke joins up?

[Dr_Heech]

Lovely. Do they have the 'stagger" where the yoke joins up?

They have a little stagger. Half/half over-lap, if you get my meaning.

.

[Maynard Friedman]

They have a little stagger. Half/half over-lap, if you get my meaning.

.

Very nice Dr. Are you at liberty to reveal how much they cost?

[airfrogusmc]

Just picked up these, won on ebay. Early boxed 55's from 09/96, with the earlier orange waist tag (later ones were salmon pink) and A4 size sticker.

This one represents the denim best. Will endeavour to post some better pics at some point. Denim is on point.

.

NICE!!!!!!!

I think Grant has a very well worn and just beautiful pair from the same year.

[colgems1966]

Just picked up these, won on ebay. Early boxed 55's from 09/96, with the earlier orange waist tag (later ones were salmon pink) and A4 size sticker.

This one represents the denim best. Will endeavour to post some better pics at some point. Denim is on point.

.

i am jealous DR! those are great. i bet those cost a pretty penny. it would be a shame to actually wear them.

[Dr_Heech]

Very nice Dr. Are you at liberty to reveal how much they cost?

Well at £132 inc insured delivery, I thought they were a bit of a bargain. I've recently put on a little holiday weight and they're TTS, but they're keepers. The denim and quality of build are awesome, regardless of the whole recent 555 debate. Just nice to have.

Maybe keep 'em for Heech junior?

.

[airfrogusmc]

Well at £132 inc insured delivery, I thought they were a bit of a bargain. I've recently put on a little holiday weight and they're TTS, but they're keepers. The denim and quality of build are awesome, regardless of the whole recent 555 debate. Just nice to have.

Maybe keep 'em for Heech junior?

.

Grants look just amazing. Maybe we could get him to post them again and give some comments. They are some of the best looking LVCs I've seen.

[jewellben]

Well at £132 inc insured delivery, I thought they were a bit of a bargain. I've recently put on a little holiday weight and they're TTS, but they're keepers. The denim and quality of build are awesome, regardless of the whole recent 555 debate. Just nice to have.

Maybe keep 'em for Heech junior?

.

it was you Dr. who beat me in last 5 seconds! Nice win though.

[lance]

Haha, has happened to me many times. Good to see they went to another "deserving" SUFU member.

[setterman]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured here was as good as any thread. While flipping through the channels yesterday morning I stumbled across a documentary about the US garment industry on HBO. Below is a link to it. Probably the most staggering statistic brought up in it.... in 1965 95% of clothing in the US was made in the US. By 2009 that number had dropped to 5%. If you have HBO, I recommend watching the program.

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/schmatta-rags-to-riches-to-rags/index.html

[crownzip]

Nicely done Dr. Heech and thanks Allen. The denim on these is simply amazing how it fades with wear.

Grants look just amazing. Maybe we could get him to post them again and give some comments. They are some of the best looking LVCs I've seen.

[Dr_Heech]

Many thanks for the kind words. And sorry jewellben, sending some rep to you to make up for it.

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[Maynard Friedman]

Many thanks for the kind words. And sorry jewellben, sending some rep to you to make up for it.

.

Yes, that makes up for it!

[Dr_Heech]

Yes, that makes up for it!

No, it doesn't does it.

Oh well, c'est la vie

.

[colgems1966]

i like rep but would rather have the 501's!

[jewellben]

No, it doesn't does it.

Oh well, c'est la vie

.

Cheers buddy - glad they went to a good home and someone who'd appreciate what they'd won.

[colgems1966]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured here was as good as any thread. While flipping through the channels yesterday morning I stumbled across a documentary about the US garment industry on HBO. Below is a link to it. Probably the most staggering statistic brought up in it.... in 1965 95% of clothing in the US was made in the US. By 2009 that number had dropped to 5%. If you have HBO, I recommend watching the program.

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/schmatta-rags-to-riches-to-rags/index.html

that's a damn shame because quality and fit went away too. i have some vintage clothes from the 1940's-60's and back then even moderately priced clothes designed for regular working people and sold at mass merchants like penneys, sears, wards etc...were usually very well made. worlds away from now, clothes purchased to do yardwork in were better made than most designer sportswear today.

[attackwithstones]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paul-Trynka-IGGY-POP-face-record-t-shirt-music-band-M-/280639142582?pt=Men_s_Clothing&hash=item4157657ab6

I need one of these to go with my 501z.