Levi's Vintage Clothing

[colgems1966]

Thank you Paul! No date, but these are 555s, and didn't the Valencia st. factory stop production in 1999?

Roy i think Paul was addressing several posts at once and the handcrafted in LA reply was about the new levis selvage made in usa 501's and not your recent find.

[colgems1966]

I had a 1873 first lined jacket (555) made in 2002, plus I've seen some '47's with '02 on the inside wash tag. Could it be possible that it was in fact 2002?

I have one item left from the San-antonio factory: a pair of '55's from 2003 with 554 stamped on the button (have also owned some '44's with this #)

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good dr. i have some 1944's 554 also. IMO 554 quality is as high as 555 but alas i only have the one pair, wish i could find more! one thing i like about those 44's compared to my later pair; the arcs are painted relatively high on the pockets like some originals i've seen photos of. gives them a distinctive vintage look. i actually find myself not wearing them much so i don't wear the paint off.

[roy6]

Roy i think Paul was addressing several posts at once and the handcrafted in LA reply was about the new levis selvage made in usa 501's and not your recent find.

No, he meant the 1890s re: Valencia street.

[Paul T]

Yup, Roy's 1890 look like later Valencia, 2000 or 2001.

What info I know about codes is on the 501 visual guide thread.

[Guest redchris]

They may be earlier than that, my 1873 1st blue jean from 1998 had the same batwing tab next to the silver thread one.

[Shorty Long]

Yes...decision was announced in Spring of 2002, plant closed in the Summer:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-04-09/business/17540027_1_levi-s-san-francisco-jeans-plant

[Paul T]

Yes...decision was announced in Spring of 2002, plant closed in the Summer:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-04-09/business/17540027_1_levi-s-san-francisco-jeans-plant

"perhaps becoming a museum but definitely staying in company hands even after its production lights go out, its stewards said." Hmmm, we can see now how sincere those particular stewards were. Sold to a Quaker school, I recall.

[Shorty Long]

The turd that gave the go-ahead to close and sell that factory should be tarred and feathered.

"perhaps becoming a museum but definitely staying in company hands even after its production lights go out, its stewards said." Hmmm, we can see now how sincere those particular stewards were. Sold to a Quaker school, I recall.

[roy6]

Yes...decision was announced in Spring of 2002, plant closed in the Summer:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-04-09/business/17540027_1_levi-s-san-francisco-jeans-plant

That explains that. Roy Slaper has told me about attending (or knowing about- I don't recall which) a sale of the Levi's Valencia street sewing machines in 2003- I had been under the impression that they shut down in 1999 so I'd always wondered about that time lag.

Levi's made even a worse decision than I'd always thought, according to that sfgate article, with the factory nearing its 100th birthday, having opened just after the 1906 'quake, and with their completely failing to see the resurgence of heritage brands and "made in the USA" just down the road. The Valencia street factory if it were still open would have been an amazing asset to the Levi's and LVC brands, especially last year when they did their "everyone is a worker (in Mexico and China)" campaign and focused on a midwestern town devastated by out-sourcing.

Fail.

[Guest redchris]

I didn't think anyone was as cavalier with heritage than UK town planners, but Levi's run them close.

I've mentioned this before, but after the 1st Valencia st. runs of LVC, I reckon they just underestimated denim-heads and arrogantly assumed they could fob us off with any old outsourced shit.

[Paul T]

That explains that. Roy Slaper has told me about attending (or knowing about- I don't recall which) a sale of the Levi's Valencia street sewing machines in 2003- I had been under the impression that they shut down in 1999 so I'd always wondered about that time lag.

Levi's made even a worse decision than I'd always thought, according to that sfgate article, with the factory nearing its 100th birthday, having opened just after the 1906 'quake, and with their completely failing to see the resurgence of heritage brands and "made in the USA" just down the road. The Valencia street factory if it were still open would have been an amazing asset to the Levi's and LVC brands, especially last year when they did their "everyone is a worker (in Mexico and China)" campaign and focused on a midwestern town devastated by out-sourcing.

Fail.

I think many Levi's employees would agree with you- I've heard mention several times they'd love to re-start SF production.

I got the impression (and I could be wrong) that the sale was concealed from the staff, or downplayed. Phil Marineau, the man who did it, and who banked a large bonus, arrived at Levi's from Pepsi, and moved on shortly thereafter.

[Dr_Heech]

The turd that gave the go-ahead to close and sell that factory should be tarred and feathered.

^agree with you there, Shorty. What an own goal.

It's a sad story really, but that's capitalism for you.

.

[roy6]

Another sfgate article interviewing Phil Martineau. It is actually 8 pages long, though it's hard to tell because of all the ads.

[setterman]

Another sfgate article interviewing Phil Martineau. It is actually 8 pages long, though it's hard to tell because of all the ads.

I wonder what the 3 1/2 billion dollars in debt that they took on was?

[Stratos]

Does anybody here know what the share is of the LVC brand in Levi's global revenue?

[Happy Hooligan]

say what you will about these, but if you're into Big E Levis... these are the pants for you....

[kiya]

"perhaps becoming a museum but definitely staying in company hands even after its production lights go out, its stewards said." Hmmm, we can see now how sincere those particular stewards were. Sold to a Quaker school, I recall.

Actually.. it wasn't sold to a quaker school, Levi's still owns the building and has donated it to the non-profit organization that runs the school. An amazing thing considering it's value and how much they could have profited off it had they sold or rented out the building.

Does anybody here know what the share is of the LVC brand in Levi's global revenue?

It's close to nothing. From what i understand Levi's loses money on LVC because it costs so much to run the division and in the end the production runs are very small, far smaller than what we'd think it would be.

[Paul T]

Actually.. it wasn't sold to a quaker school, Levi's still owns the building and has donated it to the non-profit organization that runs the school. An amazing thing considering it's value and how much they could have profited off it had they sold or rented out the building.

I'm glad that's the case. But it was still an incredibly short-sighted decision, considering they are now looking to up US production.

[erk]

considering they are now looking to up US production.

yeah, and before they looked like assholes for closing the factories, now if they want to reopen they'll look like assholes for kicking the quakers out.

[kiya]

I'm glad that's the case. But it was still an incredibly short-sighted decision, considering they are now looking to up US production.

I think at this point it would cost Levi's far more to run their own factory in the US than to just outsource production to other factories in the US.

There really is no garment company in the world functioning on Levi's' scale that owns the factories which their garments are produced in, mostly because the economy behind it doesn't really make sense.

I think fifty years ago this wasn't the case but as production went up and prices went down there was no choice but to have factories that ran 24/7 producing for multiple companies at a time.

[entertainment!]

It's close to nothing. From what i understand Levi's loses money on LVC because it costs so much to run the division and in the end the production runs are very small, far smaller than what we'd think it would be.

How surprising is that considering LVC doesnt' even have a website? I learned almost everything I know about LVC from reading this thread. Not everyone is willing to read 1300 pages of posts to learn about a brand.

[setterman]

It's close to nothing. From what i understand Levi's loses money on LVC because it costs so much to run the division and in the end the production runs are very small, far smaller than what we'd think it would be.

How much would you guess it costs to run the division? And how small do you think the production runs are? My wild ass guess would be all raw LVC 501s models combined come out to around 20,000 pair a year.

[Maynard Friedman]

^agree with you there, Shorty. What an own goal.

It's a sad story really, but that's capitalism for you.

.

As was the initial reason for opening and running the site for 90-odd years. Some people on this thread are talking like Levi's closed down and sold off a publicly-owned building to an evil villain. It's all business...

[TallyHo]

Phil Marineau, the man who did it, and who banked a large bonus, arrived at Levi's from Pepsi, and moved on shortly thereafter.

what. a. douche. http://www.lnkpartners.com/team/pmarineau.html

[Shorty Long]

Thanks for the clarification. I always thought Levi actually sold the building. I think I got the info from this article:

http://www.sfbuildingtradescouncil.org/content/view/208/34/

excerpt:

"The Friends School was started about six years ago by a group of parents and has outgrown its current space it rents from the San Francisco archdiocese in the Castro district. The group purchased the Levi Strauss building about two and a half years ago."

Actually.. it wasn't sold to a quaker school, Levi's still owns the building and has donated it to the non-profit organization that runs the school. An amazing thing considering it's value and how much they could have profited off it had they sold or rented out the building.

It's close to nothing. From what i understand Levi's loses money on LVC because it costs so much to run the division and in the end the production runs are very small, far smaller than what we'd think it would be.

[roy6]

Actually.. it wasn't sold to a quaker school, Levi's still owns the building and has donated it to the non-profit organization that runs the school. An amazing thing considering it's value and how much they could have profited off it had they sold or rented out the building.

It's close to nothing. From what i understand Levi's loses money on LVC because it costs so much to run the division and in the end the production runs are very small, far smaller than what we'd think it would be.

Not quite- Levi's did sell the building, to a private foundation that gave the building to the Friends School. Levi's did say it was donating some of the profits to non-profit causes and a Mission neighborhood fund, but I don't know much they made or what percentage of the profit went where. Since they were practically in bankruptcy at the time, I doubt they gave away the majority of the money, but who knows.

The point about it being impossible to do manufacturing work in the US and turn a profit, well, for the mass-market low price items maybe so, but many small high-end companies do just that, like White's, Redwing, Lanzitz, Filson, etc. Since all of the LVC jeans are made in America already and most of their other items seem to be moving that way, they could have stayed manufacturing at the Valencia street plant and added immensely to their reputation, how much would that PR be worth today?

[colgems1966]

Not quite- Levi's did sell the building, to a private foundation that gave the building to the Friends School. Levi's did say it was donating some of the profits to non-profit causes and a Mission neighborhood fund, but I don't know much they made or what percentage of the profit went where. Since they were practically in bankruptcy at the time, I doubt they gave away the majority of the money, but who knows.

The point about it being impossible to do manufacturing work in the US and turn a profit, well, for the mass-market low price items maybe so, but many small high-end companies do just that, like White's, Redwing, Lanzitz, Filson, etc. Since all of the LVC jeans are made in America already and most of their other items seem to be moving that way, they could have stayed manufacturing at the Valencia street plant and added immensely to their reputation, how much would that PR be worth today?

you have to give a company like RedWing credit. they stuck to their knitting all along. to counter low-priced competition they established a second line (worx) and kept quality materials and amercan labor on their flagship brand. i wish Levis had done this too.

[Stratos]

you have to give a company like RedWing credit. they stuck to their knitting all along. to counter low-priced competitition they established a second line (worx) and kept quality materials and amercan labor on their flagship brand. i wish Levis had done this too.

It is not entirely fair to make that comparison. Red Wing has always been in a niche market, while Levi's since the mid 20th century has been in the biggest mass market thinkable (within the fashion industry that is...). RW can afford to sell a top notch product at a premium price and keep its production local, because it's 'manageable'. Levi's simply cannot, it needs to compete with all other mass manufacturers. And that implies keeping production and logistics costs as low as possible. Outsourcing, even within the USA, is part of that logic. It's a small miracle LVC exists AT ALL. It is also no coincidence at all that the CEO is a former food industry boss, same logic.

[colgems1966]

It is not entirely fair to make that comparison. Red Wing has always been in a niche market, while Levi's since the mid 20th century has been in the biggest mass market thinkable (within the fashion industry that is...). RW can afford to sell a top notch product at a premium price and keep its production local, because it's 'manageable'. Levi's simply cannot, it needs to compete with all other mass manufacturers. And that implies keeping production and logistics costs as low as possible. Outsourcing, even within the USA, is part of that logic. It's a small miracle LVC exists AT ALL. It is also no coincidence at all that the CEO is a former food industry boss, same logic.

the problem is they CHOSE to go mass market. remember when the majority of their classic models were made they were not available east of the Mississippi. it's the same old story any "brand" that gets away from their roots and goes mass market will eventually lose it's appeal and the very DNA that made them classics in the first place. all in the name of accessability. i will admit the repro/heritage angle is probably the only way to pump cache into these old brands, i see it with adidas, dickies, ll bean etc..etc.. and i think it's a great thing as long as they stick close to the original mold and don't forget the quality. i will say this though, if you had told me 30 yrs ago i'd be paying $200+ for a pair of levis i wouldn't have believed you. the old man side of me misses the days when you could walk into practically any store and see shelves full of made in the usa (levis factory made, not outsourced) selvage 501's for about $20 bucks a pair. i realize they'd cost more now adjusted for inflation but it still wouldn't be $200/pr.

[Stratos]

the problem is they CHOSE to go mass market. remember when the majority of their classic models were made they were not available east of the Mississippi. it's the same old story any "brand" that gets away from their roots and goes mass market will eventually lose it's appeal and the very DNA that made them classics in the first place. all in the name of accessability. i will admit the repro/heritage angle is probably the only way to pump cache into these old brands, i see it with adidas, dickies, ll bean etc..etc.. and i think it's a great thing as long as they stick close to the original mold and don't forget the quality. i will say this though, if you had told me 30 yrs ago i'd be paying $200+ for a pair of levis i wouldn't have believed you. the old man side of me misses the days when you could walk into practically any store and see shelves full of made in the usa (levis factory made, not outsourced) selvage 501's for about $20 bucks a pair. i realize they'd cost more now adjusted for inflation but it still wouldn't be $200/pr.

Levi's HAD to choose, there was no other way. Jeans had become a mass market by the end of the fifties. There was no market yet for premium jeans, vintage nostalgia did not exist yet either. When the competition moved to cheaper denim and cheap labour, Levi's simply couldn't but follow. High end high designer denim didn't happen until the late eighties, the vintage craze happened in the nineties. People didn't care for higher quality before that, they just wanted cheap jeans. if Levi's hadn't gone that way, it would have disappeared completely. The same does not go for RW, they never were a mass product.