Chain Stitching Sewing Machines and Where to Get Them

[fre-co]

Why polycore? Stick with 100% cotton thread and the forum will love you a whole lot more.

[The Clerk]

OK I'll give cotton a go but I've got a feeling that finding cotton that's strong enough is gonna be tricky. I was looking at polycore as that's what's used both by LVC and Ande Whall (and probably others). However, I know most of the Japanese brands use 100% cotton.

As I say these are all things I need to sort out before I can offer to hem anyone's jeans.... and this isn't my day job

[fre-co]

The reason Japanese companies use cotton is because it is more authentic to the reproduction ideals and it will fade with the denim. Polycore is obviously stronger and more practical.

Maybe you should consider offering a choice?

It may be worth contacting some of the Japanese denim companies and purchasing thread direct from them?

There were a few good suggestions in my thread on this subject when I too was looking to start the very same service. Have a look at that for some of synthi's ideas and advice. search for chainstitching in London.

[The Clerk]

I've read you thread fre$co (I've been lurking for some time) ... sorry if it seems I've stolen your plan. And yes I know that cotton is more authentic. But how many Japanese brands are there out there? Using how many variations in shade of thread? Sourcing all the variations from Japan is gonna be quite a task.

[fre-co]

No thats cool, I'm glad someone finally managed to get one here.

You are quite right about the many companies, I didn't mean you should source cotton thread from all of them. But maybe it would be worth contacting a few of the big, popular companies like sugarcane, studio d'artisan, warehouse.... you could contact the UK distributors where available. Or somehow find out where they get their thread from?

[The Clerk]

Yeah man,

I'm on it... Just don't hold your breathe... Any one who wants to bag themselves some extra thread when they buy their jeans would be well advised to do so.

As well as that I'm gonna find some generic stuff maybe from coats that I can try and match as well as possible.

Thanks for the support tho

[dutchblack]

So is there any other machine in the world that will hem a jean correctly other than the 43200 g union special? I have looked flipping everywhere! I have contacted every industrial sewing machine company I can find! Someone please help me or I am going to lose my mind.

[raWorkshop]

It's a 40+ year old machine. They don't make replacement parts anymore and from all reports even on conventional production lines any "bulldog" machine like the 43200 was a bitch to operate. Good luck.

[dutchblack]

I know all about how much this machine sucks to find, operate, and fix. All I want to know is if there is another machine out there other than the juki down turn hemmer (someone posted a picture on this thread a while back) and the union special 43200 G that will chain stitch the hem on jeans. I don't want to have to find one of these things and pay thousands of dollars for a 40 year old machine. I would like to find something somewhat comparable to the 43200 machines.

[Paul T]

I know all about how much this machine sucks to find, operate, and fix. All I want to know is if there is another machine out there other than the juki down turn hemmer (someone posted a picture on this thread a while back) and the union special 43200 G that will chain stitch the hem on jeans. I don't want to have to find one of these things and pay thousands of dollars for a 40 year old machine. I would like to find something somewhat comparable to the 43200 machines.

AFAIK, there are several chain stitch machines that will di the job, but only the Union Special (I don't know about the juki) folds the hem at the same time.B ut you can get an almost identical effect on a Brother or other double lock chainstitch . (These can still be expensive though)

[indigo_junkie]

All I want to know is if there is another machine out there other than the juki down turn hemmer (someone posted a picture on this thread a while back) and the union special 43200 G that will chain stitch the hem on jeans.

I posted that pic. btw, that juki is no longer available. I checked. Then I got the bright idea of taking the heavy fabric downturn hemmer attachment from a Union Special 63900 (part no. 23564L to be exact) and rigging it to a tubular arm US chainstitcher like a 33500. Good idea? No... about >$1K later and I've got an unusable machine, all sorts of parts (don't try to convert a single thread chainstitch into a double thread chainstitch/ double lock stitch with no mechanical or engineering experience. It's not pretty) and the ironic thing is, I went into this just wanting to do the hems of my own jeans. I don't even have the space to set up a table and motor. It's not a huge loss for me. I've dropped 10X that amount of bread on my motorcycles alone, money I'll never get back, but the amount of time and effort I wasted was pretty frustrating. I'm not saying it's not possible, but... there are any number of good chainstitch services available for individual jeans. The only reason why I went to so much trouble was because there's no chainstitch service in Australia (at that time) and it was a challenge. If I ever decide to go into selling or making my own jeans I'll probably give it another go, but for now... I've been more than satisfied with just getting my jeans hemmed by my local tailor for $20 (industrial strength lockstitch).

[dutchblack]

Hey thanks a lot Paul and indigo_junkie. I have been flirting with the idea of making my own jeans sometime in the future. I would really like to start with offering a chain stitch service in Washington DC. No one here offers such a service. I have found downturn hemmers from brands like brother, union special, ect. But none use a chain stitch. What I was thinking was trying to find a feed off the arm chain stitch or Singer Model 240W3. I know it wouldn't fold the jean but I was thinking it could be done by hand or with a down turn hemmer attachment. Any thoughts are a great help. I know there has to be another machine out there that can do this.

[Dioxic]

Wasn't sure where to post this, I don't believe this sewing machine does chain stitching but what do you guys think about using this to make some jeans?

Please excuse the shitty iphone pics.

[rnrswitch]

It looks from the picture that it is belt driven. I wouldn't use it, unless someone else knows otherwise. I would try to find some old singer that is gear driven. The belt driven machines will slip when working on heavy denim, but the limit to the gear driven machines is really the motor and the strength of the needle.

But I am really an amateur, maybe some really versed folks can chime in. I know raworkshop knows his stuff on machines.

[denimotaku]

So is there any other machine in the world that will hem a jean correctly other than the 43200 g union special? I have looked flipping everywhere! I have contacted every industrial sewing machine company I can find! Someone please help me or I am going to lose my mind.

you'll be glad to know that it doesn't necessarily have to be a union special 43200G. I've searched everywhere for that machine and my girlfriend managed to find one for sale for $5000 in taiwan. and that's without a table and a motor.!!.

i offer a chainstitch service in Sydney, Australia that i am running with a Union Special 56400P. It is a flatbed twin needle chainstitch machine. i use the one needle and fold the hem by hand. i did manage to spend $500 on a custom made double downturn hemming folder that is attached to the machine however it is very tricky to work with especially because it required a knee lever. i find doing it by hand it just as good.

here's a some photo of the machine.

i'll also post some pics of the alterations

[denimotaku]

When using a flatbed machine, you should remember that if you are rolling the hem by hand you need to also pull at the fabric while the machine is sewing to help offset the fabric to get the pronounced roped hem.

Also playing with the tension of the top thread will help create a pull when the jeans start to shrink. On different jeans it may look like there are different styles of chainstitches or double lockstitches however it just comes down to the tension of the top thread vs the lower thread as well as the sizes of the thread you use. Many of the japanese repro brands have a chain stitch that looks like three parallel lines due to a tight top thread tension. Other brands like the older lots of nudie had a chain stitch that looked chunky like the top thread was trying to hump the lower thread twice from both angles... (i dont know how else to explain that)

The following photos are alterations sewn on the same machine (Union Special 56400P) however some with different thread size ratios and varying tension.

Nudie alteration on a Slim Jim DBT

The 'humping' chainstitch.

Edwin Sen Skinny

When i first saw the chainstitch on the Sen Skinny jean i though Edwin used a completely different or modified chain stitch machine.. However i found out all you have to do is change the way the lower thread is threaded through the machine to lessen the tension dramatically. The selvage is fat because the customer asked me to taper from the selvage.

Flathead

The three parallel line looking chainstitch. Probably the stitch on the jeans you are wearing as you are reading this, if you are obsessed enough to have read this far into my post.

FullCount

They usually do the three parallel looking stitch however on this particular pair i was given it was similar to the nudie hump stitch.

Sorry, the point of my post was to show that generally, the majority of industrial chainstitch machines should be able to sew denim as long as the machine takes a needle size of minimum 18/110. The Union Special 56400P was originally meant for shirts; light to medium heavy weight fabrics. I was able to sew through a 17oz Samurai no problem as well as a 14oz Acne jean with a double lap felled inseam which would equal 12 layers of denim at the one time.

I envy all the denim nerds in the states.. There are heaps of machines there on sale. To even find a machine in Australia that does a chainstitch is hard enough.

Let me know if you want to me to list all the places i've seen that have stocked Union Special machines in the states.. i think i may have talked enough on this thread.

[Paul T]

Good info, thanks.

Is it easier to set upper and lower tension on the 56400P, compared to, say the 43200G, as far as you know?

What about setting the stitch length?

[denimotaku]

Good info, thanks.

Is it as easier to set upper and lower tension on the 56400P, compared to, say the 43200G, as far as you know?

What about setting the stitch length?

Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to sit down and play with the 43200G for a few hours to check it out but from what i have read about it and from what i can see they both should be fairly easy. It would just be a matter of knowing what you are doing. The 56400P has the tension knob for the upper thread. If you need it to be extra tight in the event the lower thread is quite thick, you can wrap the upper thread around the tension knob twice, rather than the standard 75% of a revolution (not 100% of a revolution because the thread exits the tension knob before you make a full revolution).

The lower thread tension knob on most of the chain stitch machines i have at home are usually not as tight as the top thread tension knob for some reason. On the 56400P there is also a little tension nut on the inside of the machine where the lower thread runs that usually is better. However you don't really have to change the lower thread tension to balance the ratio. Balancing the thread tension can be done from using the top thread knob alone to achieve a 50/50% break up or 75/25% if you wanted more tension on the top thread.

I hope that answered your question.

As for stitch length, is it generally a lot more difficult on a chain stitch machine rather than a lockstitch. Lock stitch machines tend to have a turn knob with marked numbers showing either stitch size or stitches per inch. Chain stitch machines require you loosen nuts and bolts that attach to the looper and the main shaft. I usually find it quite frustrating on the 56400P because when you alter the stitch length, the timing of the needle drop and loopers need to be set again.. Believe me, this took a whole lot of practice to finally understand. Also because the 56400P was meant for shirts, it's maximum stitch length is shorter than the 43200G. It also helps when sewing to not pull too much on the fabric or else this will lessen the distance of fabric that is fed by the feed dogs resulting in smaller stitches. You may also help push the fabric to help it feed more distance through to obtain longer stitches if you do have a machine with a smaller stitch length. However this usually only makes a small difference.

[mac]

Hi,

I have 2 43200G , but i mis some spare parts!

Can anybody help me where i can find some spare parts for this Machine??

I don't sell this Machine, but want to fix them and will use them in our shop for hemming dry denim!

Grtz Mac

[beatle]

Okay, if you have footage or anything related , questions and answers regarding sewing machines - post it here..

Gonna start with this chain stitching clip - taken at IH headquarters UK

Union 43200G at work.

IC8zFQv22OQ

[ppsos]

the machine is a real beauty. do you know where can people get one ?

[Paul T]

CHain stitching machines and where to get them

[Charlie Delta]

Merged, thanks Paul!

[poly800rock]

funny how you see it takes such a short time, but the turnaround for a chainstitch job is always much longer... lol

[klue]

Then I got the bright idea of taking the heavy fabric downturn hemmer attachment from a Union Special 63900 (part no. 23564L to be exact) and rigging it to a tubular arm US chainstitcher like a 33500. Good idea? No... about >$1K later and I've got an unusable machine, all sorts of parts (don't try to convert a single thread chainstitch into a double thread chainstitch/ double lock stitch with no mechanical or engineering experience.

i thought the 33500 was a double thread chainstitch to begin with, and why didn't the attachment work?

[stresMaldo]

funny how you see it takes such a short time, but the turnaround for a chainstitch job is always much longer... lol

lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

edit: EPIC fucking thread, btw.

Just read the whole thing now, for the first time.

[coleslawyum]

Bumping this awesome thread.

Here is the denim master, Takashi Fukuda-san, working the 43200.

Ed5sZIKnAkM

[not too tight]

funny how you see it takes such a short time, but the turnaround for a chainstitch job is always much longer... lol

I just have to say that is not true for Blue in Green. I bought a pair of Samurais there the other day and it took less than 20 minutes from paying to having my jeans hemmed and walking out the door. I don't know the guy's name(not Gordon) but he is completely helpful with any questions and choosing the length to get them hemmed. I came back 3 days later to get them a bit shorter, same deal. Even said to bring them back again if I want them shorter.

[coleslawyum]

^^Yep, depending on how busy BiG gets, most of my hems take place on the spot.

[louisbosco]

omg. that's the guy who did my hemming for me when i was in shibuya. went all the way there to look for him to hem my pbj. he work space is like one denim heaven with denim pieces all over the place. you can even smell it when you walk in.

i can atest he's really a master. really good job done!

edit: and the amount of machines he has in his place. he's got like plenty from big to small!!