Conners Sewing Factory

[Broark]

@MJF9 I put them on recently and they're not bad, I just prefer a bit more room in the hips these days.

[JDelage]

@beautiful_FrEaK - I think they both look good. In particular, the top part of the WWII is not too big- no diaper butt.

[Double 0 Soul]

Ive become a bit disheartened with CSF direction, story of my life..

..nowadays i'm floating in a sea of denim-indifference waiting for something else to come along and peak my interest..

[Flash]

13 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Ive become a bit disheartened with CSF direction, story of my life..

..nowadays i'm floating in a sea of denim-indifference waiting for something else to come along and peak my interest..

All the weird collabs and those threeface jeans are of no interest but imo there core models ( especially the 40's models ) are second to none 

[Maynard Friedman]

Please tell more Neal, what is it about CSF that no longer interests you?

[Double 0 Soul]

3 minutes ago, Flash said:

core models ( especially the 40's models ) are second to none 

I agree, it's just how my brand allegionces tend to play out.. when i bought the 46's that's all there was (i was happy with this) if he would have gone on to make a few other 40's models and overdosed in the bathtub, shot himself in the face or some other untimely rock and roll death i would be a devoted fanboy 4life... alas red denim S506's ...ect pfft!

[Flash]

I see all those other models as a way to appease japanese retailers that have a more radical style , threeface being one if not there biggest customer . You see how it is here every time there is a contest .... everyone wants to have the input in the soup , same with some retailers 

Its definitely offputing , but the same way I ignore products from other brands I like I just do the same with conners 

[Double 0 Soul]

So he's sold out  to 'appease japanese retailers' why on earth would you do such a thing when you've had to refuse taking orders for 12mths because you can't possibly keep up with demand for your ridiculously expensive, monopolised product?

You couldn't buy CSF for love nor money in the early days, you had to buy them in store, there was no appeasing of anyone back then, if you didn't like it, hard lines.

I much prefer this approach from my denim hero's.

[Flash]

Like anything that gets a following it grows , but I understand where your coming from 

Edit 

The appeasing the japanese thing is obviously just my thoughts .... maybe he just likes red ?? 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Flash

[Double 0 Soul]

True

I assume that he still loves making jeans as a hobby but its a job that pays reletively little wages in the real world, he's also not short of money so i'm assuming if he takes on the life of a sweatshop worker to fullfil orders his little hobby would become helluva lot less enjoyable, keeping the operation small and profitable is key to any single person opperation, he had it on a plate!

This direction reads more like brand building to me with the only logical conclusion being that he hires more staff and reduces his own output, the polar opposite of what attracted me to CSF in the first place.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Double 0 Soul

[Duke Mantee]

@Double 0 Soul what’s your thoughts/feelings towards Roy, Companion Denim and other ‘one man bands’?

Edited May 2, 2020 by Duke Mantee

[Double 0 Soul]

I don't know anything about Companion, i like Roy's attitude/way of working, he's got it down! although ive never considered buying a pair of Roy's because i'm more of a repro enthusiast and i was always repulsed by the hype.. which isn't his fault, more ours and to a greater extent, his associated retailers.

..i appreciate the irony  but when i bought my CSF there was no hype surrounding the brand.. i just helped create it what have i/we done!?!?

Edited May 2, 2020 by Double 0 Soul

[Dr_Heech]

But if you're a true vintage 501XX repro-enthusiast, where else do you go?

 

[Duke Mantee]

2 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

 

..i appreciate the irony  but when i bought my CSF there was no hype surrounding the brand.. i just helped create it what have i done!?!?

You were certainly the first guy I ever saw talk about/wear CSF. I guess it’s a bit like finding a beautiful secluded holiday destination and telling your mates, then going back the next year only to find nationally themed bars and a Starbucks ...

I kinda feel a bit lost about FW these days, I’m beginning to feel the desire for something else but there isn’t really anything. Maybe it’s just a transient languor.

[Broark]

This guy must be having a laugh. This CSF x WH tux can be yours for the low low price of ¥216,000! (jeans are ¥88k, jacket ¥128k...)
Completely ridiculous especially considering the worn state that they are in. 

[Double 0 Soul]

1 hour ago, Duke Mantee said:

You were certainly the first guy I ever saw talk about/wear CSF. I guess it’s a bit like finding a beautiful secluded holiday destination and telling your mates, then going back the next year only to find nationally themed bars and a Starbucks ...

I don't begrudge it, i'm glad some of ya'll have shared in and massively overtaken my enthusiasm for CSF, it's just a different animal now than it was back in 2016, in a lot of respects, Roy has managed to keep things more grounded over a much longer period of perpetual fanboy-izm and retail demands (i include myself in this)

I still have deep affection for my 1946's, Ryans late 46's (olive pocket bags) Tilamnn's #24's ect ect that will never change, it's just my enthusiam for the brand has petered off somewhat in recent years, it just seems to have lost focus.

..it's often only the spark of the repro-boom era denim or some of y'all digging up a new find which makes my heart flutter these days.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Double 0 Soul

[shredwin_206]

4 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

So he's sold out  to 'appease japanese retailers' why on earth would you do such a thing when you've had to refuse taking orders for 12mths because you can't possibly keep up with demand for your ridiculously expensive, monopolised product?

You couldn't buy CSF for love nor money in the early days, you had to buy them in store, there was no appeasing of anyone back then, if you didn't like it, hard lines.

I much prefer this approach from my denim hero's.

I just tell people to buy Freewheelers instead  

[dudewuttheheck]

8 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

I don't begrudge it, i'm glad some of ya'll have shared in and massively overtaken my enthusiasm for CSF, it's just a different animal now than it was back in 2016, in a lot of respects, Roy has managed to keep things more grounded over a much longer period of perpetual fanboy-izm and retail demands (i include myself in this)

I still have deep affection for my 1946's, Ryans late 46's (olive pocket bags) Tilamnn's #24's ect ect that will never change, it's just my enthusiam for the brand has petered off somewhat in recent years, it just seems to have lost focus.

..it's often only the spark of the repro-boom era denim or some of y'all digging up a new find which makes my heart flutter these days.

You were the first to post about CSF which is the first brand that really got me to truly love raw denim. You were also the first that I saw to post about Clinch, who make my favorite engineers. I know I didn't previously show it in the best way, but I really do appreciate you introducing those brands to me, so thank you for that. 

Perhaps your dissatisfaction with popular brands and desire to find new things is what helps you bring brands like these to the forefront. A lot of us have benefited from that sense of discovery. 

[Double 0 Soul]

That's very kind of you to say so Dude and there was a period 4,5, 6yrs >ago when this might have been the case, back when the denim blogs/forums were king but that bird has flown, it's you guy's with your finger on the button nowadays, Ive never even been on instagram so my days of discovery are behind me, It's only Yahoo where i can still dig for gold. I am happy tho that more brands are finally moving away from faultless, stich perfect jeans and in the direction characturistic of the era's which are being reproduced.

Doc_H is right, if you're a true vintage 501XX repro nut, CSF is still the closest you're going to get to the real deal but they're still not quite perfect, annoyingly they seemed to have settled with the repro-model they have when there's still room for improvement.

I thought the hip to waist ratio would have been tweaked over the years but it hasn't, i once put this down to reproducing an odd patterned pair of jeans but the anti-fit around the waist is apparent on all era's, some more than others (i wouldn't mind if they fit as tagged) it's got to be a CSF notion rather than a reproduction. My Junky-46's are a damn good, hands on repro of a deadstock 1946 from the Toyo archives (they've got a bit carried away with the runoff but still) and they have a completely different, one might say normal fit through the top block compared to CSF so one of them has got it wrong... more so, since the repro-boom many brands have painstakingly copied jeans using period Levi's as a bench mark and nobody to my knowledge has such an odd hip to waist ratio, maybe they've all got it wrong and CSF are the first to get it right? I doubt it... but if i'm paying top dollar for accurate repro, i want accurate repro damn it!

...also the sizing needs sorting out, in the early days i used to think they shrank from tag, but through the various models the sizing is all over the place, historical accuracy to one side, after a wash you can't see the size on the patch so it all boils down to.. do your customers deserve a pair of jeans that fit to within an inch of what they were expecting? well at this cost..too fucking right they do! If the jeans fit like a 32" call them a 32 not a 34" simple as that.

Some Levi's-esque arcs wouldn't go amiss, wearing those RRR's recently made me realise just how much ive missed them and whether it's social conditioning or not, people's bottoms just look better clad in Levi arcs (i know mine does )  Warehouse like many others manage to walk the pickable tightrope, i would like to see CSF push the envelope beyond the Jukebox specials especially when they don't have western retailers carrying the brand who would suffer the consequences, same with the patch, push it like it's 1998! all over again... If i had the skills and the means, these are the areas to which i would dedicate my efforts, once perfected you can rest on your laurels and consider bizarre collabs, but not before.

...are they still worth the premium, well yes until sombody else comes along and does it better and while there's room for improvement there is always a chance that this will be the case.

[Flash]

Is anything going to be perfect in the eyes of everyone ? As far as the improvements go I'm not sure what else he can do to improve the product . As far as the waist on the ww2 goes ?? I have no solid idea but I would think that there was good reason , like you mentioned the vintage pair could have been an odd patterned vintage pair ? Like you I have nothing more to go on other that assumptions . The one thing though that gives me hope that the fit is based on the vintage pair is that every other detail on the jeans has been reproduced , everything from the crooked v stitch to the extra stitching at the top of the pockets to the little flaw in the bottom corner . I see little point in doing all this but not looking at the fit with the same accuracy ?? Again just my thoughts .

The sizing is accurate to vintage as well , I'm a 30 in almost all japanese brands but any vintage I've tried on in tokyo I was at least a 32 , this is another reason I think the fits may be correct ( maybe a little exaggerated but correct) ,almost bought a pair of 501zxx on my last trip but with the amount of indigo left in them and the ¥170000 price tag I decided against it . 

I'd kill for a nice pair with arcs , actually asked if it was possible with my recent order ( told him they would not be posted online and everything ) but he was too worried about Levi's , he is a small brand after all and a lawsuit could well put him under ...... but at the same time Levin got away with it soo ..... why not ? 

This may come across as defending the brand against criticism and I suppose I am to a certain degree but these are my thoughts and opinions and I've quite enjoyed the discussion . There is too much pic posting at times and not enough actual interaction 

[Duke Mantee]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

This may come across as defending the brand against criticism and I suppose I am to a certain degree but these are my thoughts and opinions and I've quite enjoyed the discussion . There is too much pic posting at times and not enough actual interaction 

I don’t think it does come across as defensive in any way but if you felt the need to defend then why shouldn’t you? I guess criticism is too often misconstrued as finding fault rather than having a discussion - an altogether more social activity. I don’t think we need less pics but more dialogue could be good.

[Maynard Friedman]

Some great discussion on here, which I prefer to the photos too, although a healthy balance is best.

In my experience (although others on here will undoubtedly have more/better) Flash is correct re vintage sizing. When I was buying vintage pairs (though these were small ‘e’ and therefore late 70s/early 80s), I was a 30 waist and would never buy them in that size. It was a long time ago and it may have been due to a combination of the following but my favourite pair were a tagged 33 waist:

• people wearing baggy 501s in the late 80s and hauling the waist in with a belt
• buying whatever size you could find 
• sizing up due to my athletic thighs(!)

[Flash]

We need more discussion on the forum , I've thought many a time if getting rid of rep would promote this very thing , I'd much prefer for someone to comment on a fit picture or whatever it is posted than just click a rep button 

[Duke Mantee]

8 minutes ago, Flash said:

We need more discussion on the forum , I've thought many a time if getting rid of rep would promote this very thing , I'd much prefer for someone to comment on a fit picture or whatever it is posted than just click a rep button 

I’ve quoted you because I didn’t just want to rep you 

[Flash]

 the rep system is cool and it's a simple way to thank someone for there contribution to the forum but its overused 

[Double 0 Soul]

54 minutes ago, Flash said:

Is anything going to be perfect in the eyes of everyone ?

Well, no but even with your extensive knowledge of the brand you still managed to size the late-46's incorrectly, in not being critical, im just pointing out that the size of the waistband (which i know is accurate because they've sent me photo's of them being measured) is massively oversized compared to the hip measurements. I do think you're right regarding vintage 'waist' sizing. Im basing my assumptions of the snug hip entirely on vintage photographs, say Bulers old photo's, for instance.. there are some late 30's - 40's era photographs where folks have sized their Levi's to fit tight in the waist and they're straining at the top button, now if you had sized CSF to fit this tightly in the waist you would never get them past the hip, yet folks did back then, i know body shapes change due to diet/environment but i have no ass to speak of and i would never fit my hips into a pair of CSF that were that tight in the waist.

Re- defending the brand, don't worry old friend... ive done it myself

Edited May 3, 2020 by Double 0 Soul

[Flash]

They have been a few expensive mistakes I've made regarding conners but the second half 46 mistake was due to the 47 denim being so stubborn to give , my first half are sized the same and I consider them one of my better fitting pairs 

While the hip shape is quite strange compared to other brands I think its often overexagerated . It was more apparent on my size 30 ww2 

Took this pic a few weeks ago after I washed the ww2 ( 46 hasn't been worn since i last washed it , few repairs needed ) 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Flash

[Double 0 Soul]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

We need more discussion on the forum

I agree, we'd be having this same discussion if we all hooked up for a pint

...for the sake of a little bit more, you can clearly see the previously mentioned snug hip here on Ryans WWII's while still raw.

...i remember asking at the time "Do they hang on the hip with a sloppy waistband much like the 003,s? looking at this image above would suggest that they do" Now those 003's are a grossly exaggerated version of a war model with all the bells and whistles repeatedly nailed onto the same pair..

If you compare this^ snug hip and the 2x worn pairs above to the first pair of actual vintage war model i find for sale on Yahoo, layed out in the same possition, open fly ect.. the tapering hip is a lot less exaggerated, it's more of a slight 'nip' immediately below the waist band, i appreciate that it could have stretched out with wear.. but to this extent? maybe so, maybe no..

 

• 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Double 0 Soul

[Flash]

Agree , and if you ever find yourself in Belfast I'll be expecting a PM 

 

My 30's were an extreme example I'd say ?? None of my other pairs have had any where near the amount of taper 

I Completely agree with you that the above s501xx shape was the norm but not the only shape there was , so all I'm trying to say regarding the waist shape is that it isn't outside the realm of possibility that the pair Yoshiaki based his San Francisco model on had a more tapered hip . Whether or not he exaggerated that detail is unknown because the only pics I've seen of the vintage example is the back pockets and a few detail shots 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Flash

[dudewuttheheck]

10 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

I agree, we'd be having this same discussion if we all hooked up for a pint

...for the sake of a little bit more, you can clearly see the previously mentioned snug hip here on Ryans WWII's while still raw.

...i remember asking at the time "Do they hang on the hip with a sloppy waistband much like the 003,s? looking at this image above would suggest that they do" Now those 003's are a grossly exaggerated version of a war model with all the bells and whistles repeatedly nailed onto the same pair..

If you compare this^ snug hip and the 2x worn pairs above to the first pair of actual vintage war model i find for sale on Yahoo, layed out in the same possition, open fly ect.. the tapering hip is a lot less exaggerated, it's more of a slight 'nip' immediately below the waist band, i appreciate that it could have stretched out with wear.. but to this extent? maybe so, maybe no..

 

• 

 

This pair of Flash's definitely looks more extreme in the hip taper than the vintage pairs I've seen (though I admit I know much less about vintage than you guys). However, it also looks more extreme than any of the CSF jeans that I have. Even when mine were new, the hip taper was not that extreme.

My FW '51s had a bit of taper too which you can see here:

My '37s have a similar amount IMO. To be fair, these have been worn more and the cut and fabric are different, but it's not extreme to me.

My '22s here also have it and more than the 37s do, but that could be due to age.

Here are my WWII's when new:

Again, I would not say it's too extreme. However, like I said, I'm not an expert here. That's why I'm attaching the pictures. I'm curious to see what everyone else has to say about these. I think in all cases, mine don't have the taper the way that pair of Ryan's does. It doesn't bother me personally, but that may be partly because of the '37s I'm wearing and I don't look as many vintage pairs as you do, Soul. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by dudewuttheheck