Levi's Made to Order (Lot No. 1)

[halfbaiked]

As everyone else has said, that's just some crazy money for those jeans.  Even if they were hank dyed with natural indigo and stitched by roy I wouldn't pay that.  OK i probably would, but still.

 

Those just don't look like $650 jeans to me, and I doubt that the denim they offer is that great either.  Did they offer you pictures of how it looks once worn?

 

 

They did, they actually have each denim in 4 patches that shows what it looks like over time... let's face it, you are paying for the "experience" They materials they use are nothing really all that different that a 60 dollar pair of Levi's. 

 

I'm a huge fan of process, and for me to be able to get some insight into how jeans can be made bespoke, I paid up the $650. Would I do it again? Probably not. I got to experience the experience and it's over. I think of the jeans as more of a souvenir for a cool Disneyland ride. 

[edmond]

this is what levis wanted. to infiltrate superdenim.

[Iron Horse]

this is what levis wanted. to infiltrate superdenim.

 

The denim Trojan horse?

 

[halfbaiked]

@IronHorse HAHA NICE. I'm actually quite shocked that Lot No. 1 didn't have anything on this forum yet. Ryan Grant Hays, the tailor who made my jeans is a huge denim expert... I'm kinda shocked he doesn't have a sufu account. 

 

He knew exactly which jeans I had on when I walked in. (The Strike Gold, don't remember the model...he did) 

 

If this is Levi's best way of "infiltrating" sufu, they aren't doing a very good job. I think they need to create a line catered just to us denimheads that falls in the 300-400 dollar range for jeans. DO THE ARCHS Justice!  

[givemefive]

@IronHorse HAHA NICE. I'm actually quite shocked that Lot No. 1 didn't have anything on this forum yet. Ryan Grant Hays, the tailor who made my jeans is a huge denim expert... I'm kinda shocked he doesn't have a sufu account. 

 

He knew exactly which jeans I had on when I walked in. (The Strike Gold, don't remember the model...he did) 

 

If this is Levi's best way of "infiltrating" sufu, they aren't doing a very good job. I think they need to create a line catered just to us denimheads that falls in the 300-400 dollar range for jeans. DO THE ARCHS Justice!  

 

Thing is, Levi's could make a jean that blows away what we're seeing at $350 for $200.  For some reason they just don't.. I guess they just lack the creativity to pull it off.

[halfbaiked]

Thing is, Levi's could make a jean that blows away what we're seeing at $350 for $200.  For some reason they just don't.. I guess they just lack the creativity to pull it off.

 

Yeah, that's absolutely true ... Question: with the made in USA stuff that Levi's does with Cone Mills, is there a huge difference in the stuff with Roy? In other words, what's the main reason I am inclined to pay nearly double for Roy jeans rather than buy another pair of Levi's. I can't put my thumb on it.

 

Same factory... I feel like I like the Roys because they don't have the archs on the back. (ironically, I found out one of them did when it got shipped to my house)

 

I wouldn't necessarily want something as gimmicky as a N&F jean (no offense to any fans here... I have a couple pairs myself), but I feel like they just need to add a touch of the Willy Wonka-ness for me to empty my wallet.  

[itsbenhere]

Thing is, Levi's could make a jean that blows away what we're seeing at $350 for $200.  For some reason they just don't.. I guess they just lack the creativity to pull it off.

 

Where do you get this information?  Does Levi's even still have the machines that they used to make their jeans on? 

 

Yeah, that's absolutely true ... Question: with the made in USA stuff that Levi's does with Cone Mills, is there a huge difference in the stuff with Roy? In other words, what's the main reason I am inclined to pay nearly double for Roy jeans rather than buy another pair of Levi's. I can't put my thumb on it.

 

I know nothing about lvc other than I've never seen a jean from them that I thought faded well.  Personally, I'd pay $300 for Roys and will never buy a pair of Levi's jeans (no matter how cheap) because Roys have unique but not gimmicky details, are impeccably stitched, and (to me) somehow stand out beautifully among even the best japanese brands even though at a glance they're so understated.

[halfbaiked]

Where do you get this information?  Does Levi's even still have the machines that they used to make their jeans on? 

 

 

I know nothing about lvc other than I've never seen a jean from them that I thought faded well.  Personally, I'd pay $300 for Roys and will never buy a pair of Levi's jeans (no matter how cheap) because Roys have unique but not gimmicky details, are impeccably stitched, and (to me) somehow stand out beautifully among even the best japanese brands even though at a glance they're so understated.

 

To each his own... Roys are great. I don't think they're the only jean.

 

I'm proud to have a pair of Levi's in my rotation. They have the history and classic cut. 

 

My two pairs of Roys are great. I don't think they necessarily are "better" than my Levi's, just different. 

[givemefive]

Where do you get this information?  Does Levi's even still have the machines that they used to make their jeans on? 

 

 

Well they'd have to design the whole operation from the ground up, new machines, new factory, etc. They would rather just cut every corner they can and sell shit products at marked up prices.  I would never buy anything I've seen from them at full price.  Their business people obviously were taught at plain jane university so they can't really figure out how to make a good product.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I think at that price I would prefer a pair made by Kuniyoshi-san of Double Volante. Although they (he) don’t have the history of Levi’s (and that history/heritage can’t be bought so it’s hard to put a price tag on it).

 

I think the majority here thinks that 650$  is too much for those jeans but does it really matter? You bought them, you like them. That is the most important thing!

 

edit: and thanks for sharing!

Edited April 16, 2015 by beautiful_FrEaK

[halfbaiked]

I think at that price I would prefer a pair made by Kuniyoshi-san of Double Volante. Although they (he) don’t have the history of Levi’s (and that history/heritage can’t be bought so it’s hard to put a price tag on it).

 

I think the majority here thinks that 650$  is too much for those jeans but does it really matter? You bought them, you like them. That is the most important thing!

 

edit: and thanks for sharing!

 

 

PM'd I'd like to get more info on this... 

[Rob060]

$650? fuck that.

[itsbenhere]

To each his own... Roys are great. I don't think they're the only jean.

 

Oh yeah, for sure.  I dont even own any roys because he hasnt made a cut that I would like to wear.  

 

Do your levis have selvedge showing underneath the waist?

[halfbaiked]

Yes they do

[garden gnomes in space]

yea, my initial "fuck that" was not intended to shit on your purchase or anything.  I still feel that's beyond a reasonable price.  Being worth it or not is very opaque in this denim game.  One mans trash is literally another mans treasure, as proven daily by those who buy tattered vintage 501's.  

 

questions:  Are the denim options available, aside from the Cone made for this project, off the shelf denim?  I ask because most of the Japanese brands we all go nuts over use exclusive denim to their brand/specifications, right?  Off the shelf Nihon Menpu that is available to anyone is nothing to get excited over (but its not bad).  I cant imaging getting excited about a custom pair of jeans only to find out that they use pretty boring denim.  

 

Do they actually tailor your jeans to your specific body measurements?  Or do they just give you the option of choosing a 47, 50's 60's etc... cut?

Edited April 16, 2015 by garden gnomes in space

[halfbaiked]

yea, my initial "fuck that" was not intended to shit on your purchase or anything.  I still feel that's beyond a reasonable price.  Being worth it or not is very opaque in this denim game.  One mans trash is literally another mans treasure, as proven daily by those who buy tattered vintage 501's.  

 

questions:  Are the denim options available, aside from the Cone made for this project, off the shelf denim?  I ask because most of the Japanese brands we all go nuts over use exclusive denim to their brand/specifications, right?  Off the shelf Nihon Menpu that is available to anyone is nothing to get excited over (but its not bad).  I cant imaging getting excited about a custom pair of jeans only to find out that they use pretty boring denim.  

 

Do they actually tailor your jeans to your specific body measurements?  Or do they just give you the option of choosing a 47, 50's 60's etc... cut?

 

Many selections of denim they have are not used in "regular" Levi's. Are they 100% exclusive to Lot No. 1? I think only the one I picked was. However, there are Japanese denim selections that are not used on any other Levi's... but I'm guessing someone somewhere shares the same roll. I do remember a Turkish denim he showed me that he believed nobody was using. It was a dark dark blue that faded almost a dark smoky green over time. (in my choice, I didn't want to look like the aurora borealis)

 

The tailoring is very specific. They use pins to pin up prototypes to your body. Ryan even made a mock up of the upper, had me come back into the store to try it on and make adjustments. 

 

I don't believe you can even choose a cut since they essentially make the jeans from your body. I'm guessing you would have to be very specific if it was a certain way you wanted it that didn't match the contours of your legs. (that sounded weird) 

[garden gnomes in space]

gotcha, so its actually a tailored to fit.  That makes the price more understandable.  

[setterman]

gotcha, so its actually a tailored to fit.  That makes the price more understandable.  

 

Correct. As I was reading through this thread and seeing all the comments on price, I was wondering if people know what real custom clothing costs.  

[halfbaiked]

Correct. As I was reading through this thread and seeing all the comments on price, I was wondering if people know what real custom clothing costs.  

 

 

I imagine the labor must take at least a full work day for some person... I think 650 for one day of someone's work isn't crazy 

[Foxy2]

Nice thread & cool jeans.

Price is justifiable.

Please give us more detail shots so we can see the workmanship - so far it looks very clean and well executed.

Good purchase!

[fat slub]

do they account for stretch factor for the specific denims used??

[halfbaiked]

do they account for stretch factor for the specific denims used??

 

 

They do... they asked me a some questions like "how long before you wash them?" "how often to you wear them" all taken into consideration when doing the measurements. 

[Jared_Lee]

To piggyback setterman, I too was confused by the reaction to price. I worked in bespoke denim. I partnered with the pattern maker to tailor make a fit for a customer. The pattern making process alone is labor intensive, not to mention meeting the demands of the client which are sometimes unreasonable.

 

Then you're dealing with the prototype wrinkle that Levi's is throwing in, which requires a cut and sew of the top block of the jeans. The top block is the vast majority of the construction. Beyond that, it's just an inseam, outside leg seam and a hem. Then you have to consider how making one pair of jeans differs from 100, 300 or 900, none of which are strangely large numbers for my favorite Osaka brands.

 

When you make 25 size 30 pairs in one cut of one denim, you stack that denim thirty deep and saw cut the entire pattern for every piece at once. You just created the pieces for 30 pairs all retailing at about $300 as an average. Then you can assembly-line sew pair after pair. It's done with care, pride and respect, but far greater cost efficiency than everything being set up, spec'd and constructed for one pair.

 

As silly as it sounds, hardware is another time-consuming variable. Someone pulls the hardware for every pair made. When you're using one thing, you grab and go. When you're using and placing diverse pieces as you can see on halfbaiked's fly, you slow the process. While it seems insignificant, factory production slows incrementally and added up over the manufacture of hundreds of jeans, it adds real cost. 

 

Selvedge fabrics can range greatly in price. Priced by the yard and using an average of three yards a pair, chances are you're only going to find stock fabrics offered. Stock fabrics aren't significantly less expensive than a "banner" denim from one of my favorite Osaka brands as they make thousands of pairs in that denim and thus order thousands of yards of that denim. You can't often get custom fabrics woven in runs of 200 yards. So when you're dealing with offering a variety of fabrics, custom fit and custom hardware, you're not in a position to pay forward for thousands of yards of custom fabric that you're at the mercy of the client to order.

 

I could go on about the selvedge line in the waistline, but I hope you get the point. $650 is reasonable for what you're getting.

 

Sorry to be so long winded, but I feel like sometimes we lose sight of what goes into this when it comes from a source we're skeptical of. I don't own Levi's and don't really care to. They're a major corporation with a cultural tie to a passion of mine, but there are smaller fish more closely in tune with my values that I choose to support. However, the facts are the facts. This process is labor intensive, executed by experts in the craft and offered at half the price I've seen it retail for.

[ironheartfan123]

 

I could go on about the selvedge line in the waistline, but I hope you get the point. $650 is reasonable for what you're getting.

 

 

while i think you've done a terrific job describing how making a single pair of custom jeans might "add costs" to the manufacturing process when compared with making 25+ jeans, i don't think you've really explained how any of this creates value for the consumer to the tune of $650

[bradl]

Totally understand that value in bespoke anything, but zero chance I spend $650 on a pair of jeans when I can a fit I want with already for more than half of that price.. Not to shit on this pair, it's his money.

[Jared_Lee]

while i think you've done a terrific job describing how making a single pair of custom jeans might "add costs" to the manufacturing process when compared with making 25+ jeans, i don't think you've really explained how any of this creates value for the consumer to the tune of $650

True, that just scratched the surface of the drafting and manufacturing costs of doing a one-off pair. The value to the consumer is having the exact fit you desire communicated directly to the pattern maker and brought to life to your specifications. I'm an average dude, so there's no amount of money I need to pay beyond what I pay for standard things, but those who want a custom fit seem to get served up well at a reasonable price, all things considered.

[itsbenhere]

Sure custom stuff is hella expensive, but what do you say to the fact that you can get a pair of double volante jeans equally bespoke for about $200.

 

Of course, I don't know anything about either brands jean construction, I just know what I like and what i think looks good. Personally i think the selvedge underneath the waist is kinda wack (for some reason), it kinda reminds me of jeans where they think putting selvedge in every nook and cranny=more better.

 

In the end I think that there are so many cuts and types of jeans and denim from japan that getting a custom pair (especially from just a company like Levi's) isn't worth it. Of course, if they gave you your ideal denim in a cut that you could not find anywhere else, I could see how a project like this would make you stoked.

[unders]

Totally understand that value in bespoke anything, but zero chance I spend $650 on a pair of jeans when I can a fit I want with already for more than half of that price.. Not to shit on this pair, it's his money.

This is spot on for me. I think the majority of people who think it's a bit rich (me included) do understand how a pair of tailored jeans could easily warrant this price. At the end of the day if Levis head tailor is making you a pair of jeans his time will cost, and when compared to the price of a a pair of tailored trousers this actually looks reasonable.

I don't buy tailor made suits as I can find ones that fit by buying off the peg. If I couldn't I would have a think about tailor made. Same with jeans, I'm happy with what's out there so don't need a tailor. That said there are a hell of a lot of people that buy stuff from Rakuten and it ends up on the market or ebay. Halfbaiked has avoided that.

So fair play to halfbaiked, you've got a pair made by the best jeans maker in Levis which will fit you perfectly, that's cool and is something barely anybody will have.

[SuperJackle]

Screw it right? We all pay an insane amount of money for jeans compared to normal jeans consumers. So why is this subject to price = value?

[Maynard Friedman]

My understanding is that for $650 (or £500 in London!), the whole process should include and presumably cover the cost of making an individual pattern for the customer. If that customer chooses to order a second pair using the same pattern, will they also cost $650 (or £500) or will they be less as the pattern has already been made and is available for subsequent pairs? The same also applies if a customer asked for multiple pairs to be created on the first visit.

To avoid further complication about shrinkage factors, let's assume the customer wants extra pairs made in the same denim as the original.