WW2 repro / detailed jeans

[edmond]

kopped a super disocunted 1003 from inventory

[edmond]

hoggy where the fuck are you???

[edmond]

 

deluxewear

[edmond]

anyone has the denime ww2? hows the rise ? trad ww2 or tweaked??

 

also any news on cushman ww2 ????

[edmond]

Yo cushman ww2 any news?!?!

[edmond]

wtf????hoggy

[exaptavist]

Sorry Ed, FOB's are now WWII shorts!! 

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[edmond]

why did you trn them into shorts?? god!

[Flash]

bumbing this thread with some beautiful ww2 era levis from BerBerjin 

 

 

link

http://berberjin.blog104.fc2.com/

 

seen some deadstock ww2 jeans when i visited here in July , sooooooo cool

[Iron Horse]

I wanted to steal pretty much everything in the downstairs area of BerBerJin and run away.

[newpatterns]

Have searched but couldn't see anything, does anyone own a pair of Pherrows 451?

[Iron Horse]

Hmm, I would be surprised if so haha. I have the 441 and the 301wp, and seem to be the resident Pherrow's flag bearer.

Would be nice to see someone else pick up a pair.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Iron Horse

[edmond]

Wassap

[Maynard Friedman]

You can add CSF and TCB to this list.

To the CSF fans, now that TCB have jumped onboard with the wonky stitching and other seemingly period-correct wartime details, would you be tempted by them?

[Double 0 Soul]

Are TCB using period correct Singer/Union Special in their construction methods?

[Flash]

I wouldn't , and not because they dont look like nice jeans ( they actually look awesome ) . I tried to go with something different when I bought the warehouse and no matter how much i tried to convince myself ( read the post when i first got the warehouse ) they just weren't conners . I dont know much about tcb and there production methods but with the conners ... all the hand folded seams really make a difference to me , I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference 9 out of 10 times between a hand folded seam and an ironed seam but knowing that it was done is enough for me . Like @Double 0 Soul the period correct sewing machines and the lengths Yoshiaki san goes to to keep them running ( there must be an entire room full of spare machines ) makes all the difference in the world when your goal is to purchase the best possible repro . Yoshiaki is quite a knowledgeable man when it comes to vintage denim and I've had a good few ( broken english ) text conversations with him and his passion really shines through when he is talking about his product and how much he strives for the perfect reproduction 

[Double 0 Soul]

What was it about those TCB 50's which you didn't get along with Martin? we were close to a swap but it wasn't to be.. should have got Cheggers to do the negotiating.

Was it the wide hem? i can't quite remember..

[Maynard Friedman]

You’re right Neal, the hem was too wide for my taste - about 9.3” on a raw pair with about a 38” inseam. If you chopped that down to 34” pre-wash it’d be around 9.5”. I sold them to EaseDownTheRoad from Denimbro (wonder how he’s doing?) - I took them into Rivet&Hide to have them hemmed for him first (he paid of course) ‘cos I’m such a good egg!

Would you consider those WW2s if made in period-correct machines?

I’ve been looking at my Go West every day and although the hem’s a bit wide for my current taste, I can’t wait to get stuck into them, they really are lovely and just seem so perfect. They look like they were made yesterday rather than circa ‘94. With the arcs and tab, they remind me a bit of your SC47s.

[aho]

CSF remains likely the most hardcore straight repro, however I do like the different variations and flavors that other shops bring to the table. @Flash I do wish you'd join the TCB contest, but I get it, you've found your flavor! (Ooe being my personal favorite expression)

[Dr_Heech]

12 hours ago, Maynard Friedman said:

You can add CSF and TCB to this list.

To the CSF fans, now that TCB have jumped onboard with the wonky stitching and other seemingly period-correct wartime details, would you be tempted by them?

If l didn't already have a CSF WW2 tux l may have been tempted by the TCB WW2 tux, especially at that price point (almost half what CSF tux costs). But when looked at in detail, CSF wins by a nose imo (..guess CSF is MY flavour)

When l watched the video of the items Ryo was going to reproduce, l was quite excited. But it's the little details that count right?

For example: When he was explaining about the pocket corners having a run off stitch on the original, and then went on to show the tcb repro with this detail.

Now cool detail, but CSF go further.

On the original the stitching goes back and forth over the pocket corner (where the hidden rivet is) before the run off, which is something that happens alot on original Levis 501 from the 40's and 50's and they nailed it totally imo.

Just to add to this...

l recently purchased the WW2 pair of Conners that b_F had specially made (from the 501XX book) with the crotch rivet and denim pockets. It doesn't get any better than that for me. So now l have a WW2 s406xxx and 2 pairs of WW2 s409xxx, one from 1941 and one pair from 1944  

 

[volvo240thebest]

I would be much surprised if a brand like CSF doesn't guarantee something more than Tcb, they sell the jeans for about twice the price. I don't feel the need to try them since I am very happy with what I get with factory brands like Tcb or Warehouse. I totally understand the POV of some of you guys further down in the denimology funnel though .

On that subject I like to share one of my musings. Are we sure that the most appropriate way to reproduce a factory made jeans is a one man, craftsman business?
How much of inherent flaws and features of the original jeans were there because of line production?

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by volvo240thebest

[Dr_Heech]

^Well with all the line production at Tcb and Warehouse they still make lazer clean, equa-parallel stitching and proportionately identical pocket templates, whereas this one man band has (so far) continued to put in quirks which haven't as yet been truely replicated by other companies with those production lines.

Hey Volvo, if l hadn't already remortgaged the house to buy my conners l would have jumped on this Tcb contest. But alas l am a sad, vintage  Levis obsessed man,  l have too many jeans and l have already gone down too many rabbit holes and wasted vast sums of money that could've been spent better elsewhere. So I'll stick with what l have for now...

Edited June 20, 2020 by Dr_Heech
Put in a smiley face

[Flash]

39 minutes ago, volvo240thebest said:

I would be much surprised if a brand like CSF doesn't guarantee something more than Tcb, they sell the jeans for about twice the price. I don't feel the need to try them since I am 

On that subject I like to share one of my musings. Are we sure that the most appropriate way to reproduce a factory made jeans is a one man, craftsman business?
How much of inherent flaws and features of the original jeans were there because of line production?

 

There are always going to be things like this brought up but if we were going to down this route then the shop floor workers would have to be inexperienced ( the reason why many of the mistakes were made ) and under pressure to meet targets and not even mentioning the war going on . Its near impossible to meet working conditions during this time . This is just my opinion but no other maker has taken the time and showed as much enthusiasm to try and reproduce the sewing practices used and reproduce a pair of jeans as close to the original garments 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Flash

[volvo240thebest]

23 minutes ago, Dr_Heech said:

Hey Volvo, if l hadn't already remortgaged the house to buy my conners l would have jumped on this Tcb contest. But alas l am a sad, vintage  Levis obsessed man,  l have too many jeans and l have already gone down too many rabbit holes and wasted vast sums of money that could've been spent better elsewhere. So I'll stick with what l have for now...

Fair enough Doc!!!

[volvo240thebest]

9 minutes ago, Flash said:

There are always going to be things like this brought up but if we were going to down this route then the shop floor workers would have to be inexperienced ( the reason why many of the mistakes were made ) and under pressure to meet targets and not even mentioning the war going on . Its near impossible to meet working conditions during this time . This is just my opinion but no other maker has taken the time and showed as much enthusiasm to try and reproduce the vintage examples  

I haven't watched as closely as you guys the CSF threads on here and denimbro but I haven't seen any mention of one man band vs line production methods. anyway I think that simply there is no correct answer to that one man band/vs factory methods. But can be good and bad. I'm turning off my speculative mode now enjoy the weekend peeps

Edited June 20, 2020 by volvo240thebest

[dudewuttheheck]

I am tempted by the TCB contest, partly because it's a WWII pair and partly just to participate in a contest. However, I'm struggling because I worry that even if I get them, I'm just going to go back to wearing my CSF jeans anyway. I also have those pretty special CSF jeans coming my way in late summer/early fall which is when the TCB contest starts...

Even if I do participate in the contest, I highly doubt I would be torn from CSF permanently. For example, I own a few Ooe pieces, but I sold my one pair of jeans from them and while I am tempted to get another pair, I may never do so just because I know I won't wear them. 

I am not the repro enthusiast that most CSF fans are and everyone else in this thread has more knowledge on the subject than myself. In fact, I've gotten more into repro because of CSF. Still, just knowing that he uses period correct machines and hand folds the seams is big for me. Also, going to see him a couple times, talking with him, watching him explain how he does what he does and seeing some of his originals and watching him explain how he copies them is very inspiring. 

Also, I've gotten more devoted to CSF as I've worn my jeans. It's not just stitching imperfections. Just the way they're made adds something to how they fade and start to fall apart in my opinion. Maybe TCB has captured that with their new repro, but it's hard for me to take the risk when I already have it. 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I tried to bring up the denim itself and the looms it is created on.

That one got shut down pretty quickly. But I still think, if we are so obsessed with the correct sewing machines and production techniques, why are we so uninterested in how the denim was made?

[Flash]

I think they all pretty much do this but given that there was no consistency in the vintage denim I dont see it as a big deal . One of the best reproduced denims I've seen was one from ooe , not sure what denim it was but it was based off a 50's 501xx ... and just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons I never thought cone did a good job of this given that they had everything at hand 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Flash

[Paul T]

2 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I tried to bring up the denim itself and the looms it is created on.

That one got shut down pretty quickly. But I still think, if we are so obsessed with the correct sewing machines and production techniques, why are we so uninterested in how the denim was made?

That is strange, I know. Whatever people's thoughts of Cone, that was the only 40s denim where the yarn was specifically designed for the fabric. Every other manufacturer that I know of simply chooses from a selection of yarns (or, for most, fabrics). I never really got into the details of the dye jobs at Cone, and why some shades pre-sulphur vary as they fade. I was interested that TCB use a less white cotton for the fill yarn, others have actually (though they don't tell you usually) tinted the cotton for a more ecru shade.

all that said, as pointed out, in earlier denim one key factor was variability. I don't know for sure whether they blended their cottons in the 40s but I would be pretty certain they didn't, as that produces delays in the supply chain. You will get massive variations year to year simply if the plants are bigger, as there will be important differences between average staple length depending on weather that year. That variation alone will probabyl be bigger than any other 40s vs 50s differences.

Overall, though, for me it's the different shading and texture as they age that makes me love jeans or not and gives them a lot of their character. My Lot 1 Levis' were cut after a couple of vintage 60s pairs, obviously tailored to me, and after a year I've dropped them, I just can't stand the exaggerated repetitive slubbing.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Paul T