Shoes that look better with age...

[edmond]

but but okkuuunn only charge around 220 double midsole and lets say a vibram 269. without rewelting it. well plus shipping

and THATS okuyama . you know what i mean. and brass charges almost at that range or slightly cheaper by a 10-20 bucks and makes a hell of a job too.

[mpukas]

When edmond asked about the price earlier in the thread, I PM'd him privately with the price. It's no secret I'm not willing to share. But I'd rather have not done it publicly for just because of what's happening. I don't want to start a debate on what Brian charges, or start a comparison between him and other bootmakers/cobblers and their prices, or start a debate on whether or not his service is worth what he charges. 

 

Brian charges what he charges, and he does damn fine work. If you think it's too much, that's fine - don't have him resole your boots. If you think resoling should only cost a certain amount, then find a cobbler who can do it for that price. For me, it's worth every penny because there are not that many people anywhere in the world that do the kind of work that he does. 

 

For the record, he did a complete rebuild of the lowers for me. This was no standard resoling of a Goodyear welted boot. Everything below the uppers was removed, including the original welt. This service includes, hand welting outsole to midsole (I think that's how it goes, I'm not exactly the expert here), new 3 rib shank secured by 2 brass rivets, double stitched half soles, new leather footbed, and new brass roller buckles. His standard handwelting service keeps the original paperboard footbed; I requested it be changed to leather. And there he offers different grades of leather - I went with grade B. 

 

He also offers other resole service options using the original welt & shank, or original welt & new shank, for considerably less. 

[edmond]

we just trying to be like old asian dads talking about the cheapest way to go about things ya know?

[mpukas]

s'all good! 

[Noodle36]

DM pic heavy

 

 

Side by side comparison

 

 

Blown bond and attempted repair

 

 

Overview of toe box

 

 

Side Profile of the Made in England

 

 

Side Profile of the For Life.

 

Sorry about the size.  Part of the reason I am only now posting these is my frustration with editing from Photobucket and a temperamental Macbook.

[Rain Dogs]

hell yeah. the old England-made Docs have always been a favorite of mine. i think i've had at least one pair in my closet at all times since i was about 16.

on a different note, just snagged a nice pair of White's SD off ebay. they're not the horsehide i had been saving up for, but for half the price..couldn't pass 'em up. will post pics when they arrive later this week.

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Mich]

yes, it was $370. That included extras - leather footbed replacement, roller buckles. And it did include shipping. 

 

Isn't that a huge increase from what he used to be charging? Maybe I am forgetting what the price used to be, but I thought it was in the $180 or so range.

 

Isn't footbed replacement part of any resole? The only real extra there seems to be the addition of roller buckles. What is the reason for the increase now?

 

Pretty baffled reading this given what i was quoted half a year ago....

[Cold Summer]

Does anybody want to be a hero and order http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=16935&category_id=45&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=62'>these bad boys?  Buco engineer boots... made of cordovan leather. 

 

I've seen cordovan hides before and usually they're so small that it's probably just barely possible to even make something like engineer boots out of this.  Making it even better is the fact that it's almost certainly Shinki cordovan, which is hands-down the nicest leather I've ever handled. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cold Summer

[dwarffruit]

Does anyone have a link or info on where I can see what Vibram soles are currently available?? I need to get my Danner x Tanner Lownsdale Boots re-soled soon and had planned to stick with Vibram. Looking for something with a lot more traction to it. I use these boots as everyday boots and for hiking. The current sole has such poor traction for hiking. Any opinions?? Was thinking maybe go nuts and put a ripple sole on them!

Thanks

-Edwin

For resoling Danners specifically, you might find the top list here useful -- http://www.schnees.com/product/danner-boot-outsoles/brand-information-and-history

[Noodle36]

I can't imagine there's many of us interested

Considering the recent gemming debacle/ eye opener. Can't really see why DM'S would not be under consideration.

I have been eyeing a pair of grip fast brogues since the 90's.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Noodle36

[rayw44]

Ben you're referencing the cost of a hand stitched resole with welt and replacement of insole with new - that isn't reflective of the cost of a typical machine stitched goodyear welted resole, the price of which you can find on most repair sites online.

 

Ray re the footbed / insole - that's part of Brian's service as he needs to channel out the holdfast, a goodyear welt resole would only strip of outsole. Or am I misunderstanding the question?

 

Hogg I see your point, namely that a handwelted resole will cost more, but my point is that he was charging about half this 6 months ago for the same services. I have never had a resole that came back with the same footbed. It has always been replaced. Maybe that isn't common, but it has never been presented to me as an extra. I just don't understand the reason for the price increase for the same services. It doesn't seem to be a cost of materials increase either, as leather hasn't gone up over 100% in price in six months.

 

 

but but okkuuunn only charge around 220 double midsole and lets say a vibram 269. without rewelting it. well plus shipping

and THATS okuyama . you know what i mean. and brass charges almost at that range or slightly cheaper by a 10-20 bucks and makes a hell of a job too.

 

When edmond asked about the price earlier in the thread, I PM'd him privately with the price. It's no secret I'm not willing to share. But I'd rather have not done it publicly for just because of what's happening. I don't want to start a debate on what Brian charges, or start a comparison between him and other bootmakers/cobblers and their prices, or start a debate on whether or not his service is worth what he charges. 

 

Brian charges what he charges, and he does damn fine work. If you think it's too much, that's fine - don't have him resole your boots. If you think resoling should only cost a certain amount, then find a cobbler who can do it for that price. For me, it's worth every penny because there are not that many people anywhere in the world that do the kind of work that he does. 

 

For the record, he did a complete rebuild of the lowers for me. This was no standard resoling of a Goodyear welted boot. Everything below the uppers was removed, including the original welt. This service includes, hand welting outsole to midsole (I think that's how it goes, I'm not exactly the expert here), new 3 rib shank secured by 2 brass rivets, double stitched half soles, new leather footbed, and new brass roller buckles. His standard handwelting service keeps the original paperboard footbed; I requested it be changed to leather. And there he offers different grades of leather - I went with grade B. 

 

 

Piggybacking on this, the only thing in this description that is really an extra from other "premium" repair services is the new welt, the hand welting process and the buckles, and each of the other "premium" repairers will charge another $50 or so for the buckles and the new welt. I can think of at least three places that will give you everything else you described for around $180-220 as Ed explained. I just don't understand how a handwelt can double the price? I understand it takes more time, but what is the true difference in time to the machined goodyear re-welt?

 

I also have to question the value in putting a resole of this kind on a pair of base model current-day Chippewas. I understand doing more on a high end pair or a vintage pair to upgrade the soles, but now the soles are like a Cadillac and the uppers are like a Kia.

 

Pretty baffled reading this given what i was quoted half a year ago....

 

Do you recall what the qoute previously was Mich? I had thought it was $180 or so, but I just checked my email and the only quote I could find was $160 for a resole in November of 2013.

[Mich]

@Ray, i actually meant baffled at the fact that the quotation i was given was even higher than the numbers i'm seeing here.

I had some requests like removing the celastics and an optional relasting, but even without adding those extra requests the resole + rubbers would have been $325, that's without shipping or leather footbed or brass buckles, no extras.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Mich

[rayw44]

Yikes. So that means the extras really aren't adding much to Brian's resoles either.

[exaptavist]

. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[rayw44]

You're right, that is exactly what I am referring to. I've had repairs from local shops that do just what you described, but the repairs I have had done through HTC and what I believe Okuyama does (I assume Brass does as well but I haven't had experience with either) is replace everything but the uppers and the welt. At least that is how it looks when they come back. I can't say for certain since I don't have a cross section of the work, but that is what it looks like and what I have been led to believe.

 

I really just want more info to differentiate between what all the top end repair places do. I also don't see a problem with the goodyear process (including the gemming issue). I have never had a goodyear welted boot fail, and for the price, I would rather stick with that method. I just can't justify putting $300+ into most of my boots, but for something special I certainly would.

 

This goes back to address the previous qualms about the puffery used when selling goodyear welted footwear, but if anyone is sold by a brand calling goodyear welted footwear the cream of the crop or the absolute best way to welt a shoe, that's on them. It's like falling for every kickstarter brands' claims that their construction and materials really are the best of the best. It's puffery and should be taken as such. Just like you said before, goodyear welting and the use of gemming is what it is. Not the best, but an acceptable method if sold as such.

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

...

I also have to question the value in putting a resole of this kind on a pair of base model current-day Chippewas. I understand doing more on a high end pair or a vintage pair to upgrade the soles, but now the soles are like a Cadillac and the uppers are like a Kia.

...

@Ray - this was my first concern going into this project - Are these boots worth putting that much extra money into? I asked Brain, and he said the leather is f/ Wickett & Craig, and it's a "nice" leather, that has a lot of potential and will patina nicely.

 

I do not know anything about where Chippewa gets their leathers for which boot models, but I do find in my experience with other Chippewa boots I have and have owned, that this leather is a bit nicer. It's better than the leather on the 1901M29 Crazy Horse 6" Service Boot. I would say it's on par with leathers that Redwing uses on the Iron Rangers, Beckmans, etc. Is that comparably to Horween CXL, I don't know. It's certainly not shell. 

 

I trust Brian's opinion of this boot. He's got far more experience working on different brands and with different leathers than I every will. I do not think he mislead me just to get the job, as he's got plenty of re-build work as well as his own line. I also asked him about other boots, and he had a less favorable opinion of them. 

 

But what really convinced me to do this project, in addition to the leather being good, is they are made in USA (a LOT of Chip's are made in China) and I really like the toe profile of this boot. It's the lowers where boot manufacturer's are cutting corners - even with Goodyear welting (tho very solid and done flawlessly), it's got ply rib/gemming and cork filler, and originally had a full Vibram composite sole & heel, not stacked leather, which are cheap and probably pre-formed to some extent. The real value of the $300 for these boots new is in the uppers' leather and design.

 

Also, it seems they do limited runs of this model, as they are pretty scarce and hard to find right now. They have a lot of other engineer and motorcycle boots that you can find all over the 'net any day of the week. 

[mpukas]

...

Regarding the replacement of the insole though ... that is a surprise to me - by footbed you do mean insole, and not just the sockliner?

...

Hogg - when I inquired with Brian about the footbed, I first called it an insole; he calls it a footbed. 

 

Brain said when he relasts the uppers he replaces the paperboard footbed. On a handwelted re-build such as mine, replacing the paperboard with leather is an additional cost. I did not want my boots relasted. 

 

Whatever you call it - insole or footbed - it's the bottom inside surface of the boot the your foot stands on. 

 

(personally I think insole is the proper term). 

[edmond]

well assuming same price between brian and okkuun . which would you guys go for?

[itsbenhere]

You have to consider the price it costs to ship to and from japan though right?

[jstavrin]

What's considered normal for a quality resole?  If it's 350, the idea of getting nice boots as something cost-effective is even more of a joke (but hopefullly everyone here just buys the stuff because they like it).  I feel like 150 would be reasonable...

 

 

I'm pretty sure I paid Baker ~$150 for a full rebuild of my White's SD--a pair I've been wearing nearly every day for over five years. 

 

Similarly, I'd get new soles from Eddie's in Sherman Oaks (including the cost of the sole itself) for just under a hundred. You *really* don't have to spend $350. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by jstavrin

[Quoise1203]

I was just browsing through the hukurokuju blog to see his work. The stuff that looks to include the same stuff as Brian's work looks to cost about 21000yen plus tax (for example see the white's here http://hukurokuju.com/blog/page/30/, which includes a 269 resole plus midsole plus welt, if I did the translate correctly, for 21000yen). It also looks like he charges 7000yen to install his roller buckles. I'm not sure what tax is, but assume 10% and your looking at ~30000yen. Add in insured shipping and your probably up around Brian's $370 number.

 

Personally I think Brian's work looks as good as Hukurokuju, and certainly looks better than his more basic stuff. There's nothing particularly jaw dropping about the red wings on this page: http://hukurokuju.com/blog/page/6/, though I'm sure the quality is great.

[edmond]

wesco or oak st boot maker?

[mpukas]

Wesco 

[edmond]

there you go wesco is okkuunn oak st is brian both are great. but charge the same price

[Megatron1505]

How did you reach that conclusion?

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^how did you comprehend his post?

[edmond]

hahahahah come on you know what i mean

[Megatron1505]

I have literally no idea at all Ed.