Shoes that look better with age...

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

... Goodyear refers ONLY to the strip gemming inside the shoe...

 

 

What is strip gemming? 

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

Ask and ye shall receive; search and ye shall find; 

 

http://www.keikari.com/english/shoe-gemming-construction/ - says pretty much the same as you, Hoggy. 

 

So, what about the beloved high-er end North American brands - White's, Nick's, WestCo, Viberg? What about Toys McCoy, Lofgren, Buco, Mister Freedom? Are they using gemming? Our Boy, Brian the Bootmaker of Role Club, does not use gemming. 

 

Is it safe to assume that unless a maker specifically say "hand welted", then they are using gemming? 

 

This has been an eye opening and informative discussion. One of the best threads on the 'net. 

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

Here's a clicky to another forum; pay attention mainly to what DWFII has to say. The rest are mostly as ignorant as us lot. 

 

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?100133-What-seperates-Crocket-amp-Jones-from-Edward-Green/page2

 

The first article I linked on Keikari.com has a quote f/ DWFII in it, and it appears this forum post is where it was taken from unless written elsewhere identically. 

 

 

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[ALB]

Damn. Yeah, gotta say this really has been informative even though I actually already knew about the disadvantages goodyear welting had compared to hand welting. However, this didn't really bother me as I thought if they can be resoled several times over and gemming failure isn't something that's seemingly prevalent it should be fine.

 

Now I was under the impression that the outsole stitching, which people (me included) confuse for goodyear welting, would be better than say cement construction where to resole cemented soles they had to be picked/grinded down(?).

 

So assuming I can actually find a decent cobbler with decent glue, would it matter if the outsoles were stitched (barring waterproof abilities and not needing to re-gemming, which in that case, you need the original last)? I guess for my case personally I just want a shoe (construction) that can be resoled several times and be relatively easy. Cement construction I thought would be harder since there's no welt and resole-ability limited but after more reading elsewhere I'm not so sure anymore.

Edited January 6, 2015 by ALB

[Quoise1203]

Here are some pics of the Zuriick William boots (made by Nicks) I picked up. They may be new, but they look better today than they did on Friday!

 

 

 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

what does a pair like this from Nick's cost?!

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[fre-co]

Wow good bargain if 30% off. Nice looking boot either way.

[edmond]

are they still on sale?? zurick?

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[edmond]

ohh shit

[Quoise1203]

As usual hoggy knows what's up. You been stalking me?

[Quoise1203]

Although the code doesn't run, this is definitely the way to get a pair of nicks without the wait time.

They're having a winter sale on their casual shoes and also have a code (WINTER10) to get 10% off the sale stuff. You might be able to try this code to see if it works on the boots. They have some nice looking stuff.

[mpukas]

Here's a vid of Redwing showing in depth how their boots are made in their factory. At 8:15 they show the sole making process. They call gemming a "ply rib" (to me it looks like some sort of plastic material), and can bee seen being glued to the insole. A bit later you can see the welt being stitched to the ply rib, and cork being spread in the void. 

 

I had always assumed, in welted shoes, that there has to be a strong connection between the upper and lower/sole. I assumed the welt was somehow stitched to the insole. And I've heard countless times how the cork filler is such a good material as it provides some insulation and molds to your foot over time. I've always been skeptical of that... after this gemming thing has finally set into my brain, I feel like all of my shoes and boots are going to instantaneously implode into dust. 

 

It makes me now realize, as Hoggy said earlier, that all of these shoe companies are pretty much the same. The differences come down to the quality of leather and other materials they use, the standards of the company and skills of the workers, and level of quality control. 

 

[HoustonChris]

I wonder how much a pair of Frommer's boot cost!

 I believe his cowboy boots were above $3k, but it's been a few years since I saw a price from him.  That's actually in line with other top level cowboy boot makers.

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[erk]

I hadn't seen that dr martens brought production back to england. thats pretty cool. anybody have a pair of them? I remember when I was in highschool they switched to china and the quality took a nose dive.

[erk]

6 year old WWII impressions army rough outs. these are my go to for work. they see a ton of car lot pavement as a result. they're on their 3rd sole and heel. shown with White's leather laces of course

 

Edited January 8, 2015 by erk

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[cameosis]

here’s a bargain grab for guys with big feet: swedish cap toe combat boots from 1945 … i’d almost wish i had feet this big to cop them—no affiliation with seller, random find while browsing.

 

eu size 46 / us size 12 or 13

outside length is 33,6 cm — outside width is 11,8 cm / starting bid is € 15, bin is € 30.

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/271733732478

 

[itsbenhere]

Quick question.  Hog, it seems like you really do not like strip gemming, and prefer Brian's method.  He says that for every pair he resoles, he converts it to hand-welted construction.

 

After it's been resoled by him, does it matter that it was constructed in an "inferior" way to start with?

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

Hogg - those Church's you posted are FINE.

 

Yet another boot I wasn't aware that I now must have. You're a really bad influence on me LOL! 

[Noodle36]

Erk  - I bought a couple pair of Made in England boots right around the time DM moved production.  DM used to be sold in a store here (Canada) called Aldo.  They carried a number of DM boots.  They were the only shoe Aldo carried at the time that wasn't pure shit!  On one the combat sole separated from the glue around the arch area.  The other is still fine.  I could not get DM to fix the one so ended up using some Shoe goo to fix the bond.  Didn't really work that well but I could wear them without getting rocks and stuff caught in the void.  So I guess my point is there was production issues even then.

I recently purchased a pair of the Made for Life DM boots which as Hog mentioned are made in Thailand.  It is a good DM boot.  I bought them just because of the made for life guarantee.  Apparently you can send them back to DM when they fall apart and they will fix them or replace as pertinent.  Have not had a reason to take them up on the "guarantee" yet.

 

Re: Gemming - I too am a little put off by this.  I replaced the soles on a wolverine 1000 mile and an Allen Edmonds boot awhile ago and my cobbler said it was a pain.  I thought he was a little biased because he also sells Hondo cowboy boots.  From what I now know he must have been referring to the gemming.  The Hondo boot is hand welted from what I understand and knowing him (cobbler) this would be his preferred method of construction.  Everything else to him is a "shit boot".  I caved and bought a Hondo boot from him a couple of years ago.  They are great.  I have posted pics of them in this thread previously.  I know some do not like the look of a cowboy boot but to each his own.  I will probably be purchasing a pair of Lace up boots from him here in the next little while and will post pics.  They are not much different from any other packer boot you would see by Whites or Viberg.