Shoes that look better with age...

[Sugar Mountain]

Indy boots are really several steps up in quality from the RW Beckman. The leather is of a higher grade and the finishing is better. They are also supremely comfortable in my experience.

[mpukas]

For those who didn't catch my post in the custom resoled boots thread, I have a pair of White's SJ's that I had rebuilt. 

 

complete rebuild - new toe, counter, vamp, pull strap - all brown leather and sole is new; only black leather is original

single leather mid sole w/ 1/2 composite out sole 

curved heel, dropped 1/4" no half slip

standard SJ brown leather 

dress toe cap 

double row white stitching 

 

 

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Overall, I'm very happy with the outcome. I think the way the welt was stitched to the outsole caused it to become a bit bulbous as it meets the upper around the front and sides of the boot, which I find unappealing. You can clearly see that White's welt is only stitched one row, not two rows. I wanted my SJ's to be a bit lighter physically and aesthetically, more refined, easier to wear, with a lower heel. I have a very high arch, and contrary to popular belief, I don't agree with the idea of "arch support" and don't like White's Arch Ease concept - I don't want any in my shoes, and the original SJ's had way to high of an arch. The lowered heel is much easier to walk in and the arch is much lower, making them more comfortable for me. When I had talked to one one White's rep's about the rebuild w/ a lower heel he said, "oh, you just have to wear the boots more and your feet will become accustomed to the high arch." Well, of course, our feet will become accustomed to anything we subject them to for extended periods of time, whether or not it's the best thing for our feet (just look at Chinese foot binding, for example). I digress - again, very pleased w/ the rebuild, and Lynette and Jennifer at White's were extremely nice and helpful during the whole process. 

 

[mpukas]

Indy boots are really several steps up in quality from the RW Beckman. The leather is of a higher grade and the finishing is better. They are also supremely comfortable in my experience.

Good to know. I've had 2 pairs of RW's and sold both of them because the I didn't get the right size - one pair was too big, the pair was too small. I had the cherry Beckman's and they were very uncomfortable - the length was OK, but the rest of the boot the proportions were off. Shame 'cuz I really liked them. 

[mpukas]

For that price, White's hands down over Indy's if you can get your size right...but honestly at this point I'd get Nicks over all others, they've really taken the cake for me and are the same range as White's so why not (solid construction, cleaner stitching, etc. and word on the street from all the wild land firefighters and locals say Nicks is better so who am I to say no)? I myself will be getting Classic Packer's from them once I send in my tracings/measurements in a few weeks. Takes a bit more research but let me know if you have any questions on them, and check out some of their Zuriick collabs to get an idea of what you're looking at: http://zuriickusa.com/#product

 

I think in the next year or two, Nicks will EXPLODE in popularity what with the White's sale to Lacrosse/ABC Mart which is timed with new ownership of Nick's (same everything, different boss) who are now trying expand their product line experimenting with more "fashionable" leathers and styles (hell they're even making a moc toe ala Red Wing). I'm already seeing this shift with Japanese boot fans who interestingly enough seem to be in the most uproar over the sale to ABC. Nick's says they're dedicated to making workbooks before fashion boots however and I think they're willingly and gladly taking up the mantle now that White's has declined (still excellent boots don't get me wrong).

I've been a fan of Nick's for a long time. The first time I discovered them was the first time I was in Telluride, CO about 2000. There was a store there on main st that sold Nick's. The guy who owned the store worked with Nick's to create lots of custom options for leathers and styles. He had a huge inventory of some really sick boots and shoes. I tried a basic pair of 6" boots on, and remember saying they were the most comfortable boots I had ever worn. Still kicking myself for not getting them. The store is long gone now, and I have no idea what it was called or who the owner was.

 

The owner was telling me that Bob Dylan had recently been in the store and bought a couple pairs of 12" high boots made from some exotic leathers and hides, something like alligator, can't quite remember now. They were about $1,200 a pair I think. 

 

I still have the image etched in my head nearly 14 years later... I was walking down the street, checking out the shops as you do in a new-to-you town, and the guy was just opening up his store for the day. He had on jeans with the cuff rolled up o he could show off his boots. I knew of White's at the time, and as soon as I saw them I was hooked and had to go in. The owner told me a little history of Nick, and how he learned boot making from Otto White. He told me that Nick's was more interested in doing custom boots and making more fashionable boots with exotic leathers than White's was. He also said he felt overall Nick's were a better made boot than White's. 

 

Aho - those builds on Zuriick are beautiful! Confirms my long-held assumptions that Nick's > White's. 

[bradl]

My question about Indy's was kinda rhetorical. No way can I see paying $500+ for them. Although I've never handled a pair in person, they seem to be in the same league as Red Wing Beckman and Wolverine 1000 Mile, etc. The seem about $175 over-priced, probably because of the movie fame.

And they look awful

[aho]

Re: Indy's vs. RW, I agree with Sugar Mountain, the leather is definitely better and they're more comfortable. My leather has held up well and they were my beater boots for quite some time and held up fabulously and take to a polish well even after two winters of salt and slush. Not sure I'd pay $500+ for them though unless they were a special mock up...

 

Re: Arch Ease, I have flat feet and had quite the opposite experience; upon wearing my White's I've finally found what real footwear should feel like, and they feel even better than walking barefoot! It's all subjective though, and is a matter of finding what works for you because only you know what's comfortable for you!

Edited October 9, 2014 by aho

[tmadd]

I don't mean to wax poetic on Nick's and all but I'm excited about the brand. Still, you can't go wrong with White's which easily beat up most everything out there, and styling wise, White's is still ahead of the curve in the battle against Nicks IMO.

 

I'm fully willing to accept that Nick's might be making absolutely incredible boots, but I've also been aware of/considering Nick's for 6+ years, and they've always been lacking when it comes to polished casual designs.  Based on the enthusiasm here, I'm willing to believe that they're built to a superlative standard, and maybe even evolving as a brand towards things that are a little more aesthetically interesting…that doesn't mean I'm ready to forgive the company for all the years they've made it an act of God to get anything not ugly to look at from them.  If they didn't want their boots to be slick and aesthetically appealing until after they were aware of the hertitáge market paying attention to them, then I'm not sure I can get behind the changes they are making to be more appealing.  

[aho]

^beauty in function perhaps? As you said, brands evolve and I personally don't mind them dabbling in "fashion" oriented boots lately...Can't blame em for wanting to grow and being in business since the 60's is heritage enough for me whether they're just jumping on the bandwagon or not! I'd actually attribute much of this to the new guy in charge (evidenced by their Reddit ask me anything thread) but personally I find their builds attractive now (wasn't originally of this mind either)!

Edited October 9, 2014 by aho

[tmadd]

^beauty in function perhaps? As you said, brands evolve and I personally don't mind them dabbling in "fashion" oriented boots lately...Can't blame em for wanting to grow and being in business since the 60's is heritage enough for me whether they're just jumping on the bandwagon or not! I'd actually attribute much of this to the new guy in charge (evidenced by their Reddit ask me anything thread) but personally I find their builds attractive now (wasn't originally of this mind either)!

 

Yeah…I'm not saying I'm right…I'm totally owning up to displaying gross entitlement and otherwise curmudgeonly behavior, but I always wanted Nick's to be a little more attractive, and I think it's awesome that they are taking the simple steps to make their boots a little more attractive and approachable to a casual wearer…please don't read my non-enthusiasm as indictment on the changes they are making, or on the strict product line they previously maintained…it's neither.  I've just personally hit a point where there are enough boots I'm interested in eventually owning (something from wesco, a totally different style, and sizing than what I have from Viberg) and enough boots that are exciting that seem to be incidentally crossing my path (at the moment, Lofgrens, Lone Wolves) that I don't feel compelled to do any further research to add to the list of things I want.  I already want a good deal more than I need, and all of what I'm interested in is in the "way beyond sufficient +" category which makes arguing relative quality academic rather than practical.  

[tod]

With regard to Alden vs Red Wing:  While I certainly wouldn't want to say that $512 is not a lot of money for the Indy boots (it is!), it is worth noting that Alden is still a much smaller operation that Red Wing, and does not have a large Made in China operation to help subsidize it, as Red Wing does.  Also, they do not own their own tannery, etc, like Red Wing.  And if it matters to you (it does to me), I know that the Alden workers are unionized.  I am not sure if Red Wing's Minnesota factory is a union shop -- given Minn's Farmer-Labor tradition it may well be  -- but I am pretty sure their shop in China is not!

 

Of course the perennial question of whether certain boots are "worth it' is very subjective.  To my mind, if I like the boots and they feel good on my feet and I know I will get 8 or 10 years of regular wear out of them (or more) then I will pay 5 or 6 hundred dollars for them and not feel too bad about it.  There has to be a limit though, and to me Viberg is starting to go beyond that limit by hitting the 7 to 9 hundred dollar range.  (Though like everyone else, I love the Viberg...)

[tod]

With regard to Nick's:  like tmadd I was never quite taken with their boots in the past.  Too many high heels and pointy toes for my taste.  But they have recently been shifting gears a bit.  Check these boots out:

 

http://imgur.com/a/u5Hqs

 

 

If I had seen these before I ordered my White's Bounty Hunters, I may well have gone with Nick's.

[aho]

@tmadd, we're of the same mind! 

 

@tod, I'm actually all about the high heeled pointy toe these days and intend to get some packers from Nicks soon!

[tod]

 

@tod, I'm actually all about the high heeled pointy toe these days and intend to get some packers from Nicks soon!

 

Right on.  I know for lots of guys that's the workboot look, and that's cool.  I've just always like the chunkier, rounded toe look.  To each his own.

[themexican]

I purchased a pair of Baker's oxfords made by nicks as my summer factory shoe and yes they are heavy even with the vibram 2021 sole, but they are incredibly well made, the leather is tough as hell especially since i ordered it rough out. I work in a sheet metal shop, sharp metal and leather don't mix but the rough out has handled it like a champ. On top of that they are the most comfortable shoes I own. I ordered a pair of wesco custom jh oxfords to rotate, (the hot Texas summers keep me from wearing the same pair daily) and they are comfortable and well made but I look forward to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays when i can where my nicks. I will most likely order a pair of boots for the winter months. 

[rayw44]

tmadd I think Nick's has been making some very nice casual models, they just don't give a shit about marketing to the people who would be into them. Their bread and butter are the guys who actually need a boot to fight wilderness fires in, so why cater to assholes like us?

[QUASAR]

 

allsaints a\w 2008. 3 year on my leg

[tmadd]

With regard to Nick's:  like tmadd I was never quite taken with their boots in the past.  Too many high heels and pointy toes for my taste.  But they have recently been shifting gears a bit.  Check these boots out:

 

http://imgur.com/a/u5Hqs

 

 

If I had seen these before I ordered my White's Bounty Hunters, I may well have gone with Nick's.

 

I know it's just one boot, and it was custom, but that specific boot is indicative of exactly why Nick's isn't personally compelling to me anymore.  It looks like a viberg built copy of a custom Bounty Hunter, with three of my least favorite elements of standard-ish White's builds (cap toe is too long, block heel is ugly as sin, edge trim is too wide for a boot in that style).  The fact that natural chromexcel is my least favorite leather, especially for work style boots, certainly doesn't help me like it either.  I know that those are just all issues of taste/preference, but when a company makes the change from being pretty evasive towards "lifestyle" models, to actively pursuing it, this is exactly the kind of boot I'm afraid they'll make.  

 

I purchased a pair of Baker's oxfords made by nicks as my summer factory shoe and yes they are heavy even with the vibram 2021 sole, but they are incredibly well made, the leather is tough as hell especially since i ordered it rough out. I work in a sheet metal shop, sharp metal and leather don't mix but the rough out has handled it like a champ. On top of that they are the most comfortable shoes I own. I ordered a pair of wesco custom jh oxfords to rotate, (the hot Texas summers keep me from wearing the same pair daily) and they are comfortable and well made but I look forward to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays when i can where my nicks. I will most likely order a pair of boots for the winter months. 

 

They sound like great workshoes, and I bet they are.  I've definitely had instances where my desires for shoes revolved around them being the toughest, most solid available.  Nowadays, due to being a cycle commuter, among other things, undue heaviness is something I seek to avoid in my footwear.

 

tmadd I think Nick's has been making some very nice casual models, they just don't give a shit about marketing to the people who would be into them. Their bread and butter are the guys who actually need a boot to fight wilderness fires in, so why cater to assholes like us?

 

Go ahead and apply this to Whites pre-lacrosse, Wesco now, and Viberg up until about 3 years ago all to varying degrees.  Catering to assholes like us makes sense because assholes like us like to spend lots of money on boots, and also act as influencers on the market, eventually creating more demand for products that we endorse.  Being as that businesses like to make money, they are usually interested in connecting with the kind of consumer we all are.  The idea that brands like Wesco don't care about marketing to people like us, and don't want to sell more boots is patently false, and I'd assume it is in the case of Nick's as well.  Demand for boots from White's and Wesco from their "bread and butter" is highly seasonal, and it is highly advantageous to companies like these to have year-round demand.  The reason for the lack of marketing from these companies has basically continually proven to come from a lack of know-how, rather than a lack of desire.  I think it's an interesting thing, and it honestly doesn't make me feel one way or another about the legitimacy of any of the brands either way.   There is a point for me though, where the fact that a boot might be a little more rare, or under the radar, or even "technically" a little bit better/well built/value per $ etc. than the alternative loses out if it's more difficult to figure out how to buy it, and what it will actually be like.  It can be fun to be an optimizer, and spend hours obsessing over little details on custom orders, but at a certain point, I'll take "sufficiently awesome" over "staring god in the eyes while standing on a moving harley playing van halen solos on a flaming guitar PERFECT" if it's a lot less work.  

[tod]

..  It looks like a viberg built copy of a custom Bounty Hunter...

 

Ha, this description is pretty much my definition of the perfect workboot!

 

I agree on the natural CXL not being ideal for a workboot, but everything else is spot on for me.  I love the proportions of toecap, vamp, and heel counter (which is different than the BH); block heel lowered is just right, and welt, stitching, etc, looks great to me.  And I like the basic Munson shape, which is surprisingly hard to find (White's doesn't have it, Viberg sort of does on their 2045s, but those are rare in the current 2030-obsessed climate).

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[mpukas]

I purchased a pair of Baker's oxfords made by nicks as my summer factory shoe and yes they are heavy even with the vibram 2021 sole, but they are incredibly well made, the leather is tough as hell especially since i ordered it rough out. I work in a sheet metal shop, sharp metal and leather don't mix but the rough out has handled it like a champ. On top of that they are the most comfortable shoes I own. I ordered a pair of wesco custom jh oxfords to rotate, (the hot Texas summers keep me from wearing the same pair daily) and they are comfortable and well made but I look forward to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays when i can where my nicks. I will most likely order a pair of boots for the winter months. 

must see pics! 

[mpukas]

..., this is exactly the kind of boot I'm afraid they'll make.  

@tmadd, I'm liking your posts, as they are making me think, and they are somewhat in line with my thoughts. 

 

I'd like to see some examples of boots you do like, and/or own, and what you like about them. thnx 

[tmadd]

@tmadd, I'm liking your posts, as they are making me think, and they are somewhat in line with my thoughts. 

 

I'd like to see some examples of boots you do like, and/or own, and what you like about them. thnx 

 

I'll try and take some photos of my current lineup, and post them soon.   My collection is nowhere near as meticulously developed as my opinions on boots are, but I definitely owe this thread some photos for all the spouting off I do in here.  Most boots I own have been the product of circumstances more than me determining the ideal boot, and while I like all the boots in my collection, none of them are perfect for me or even closer really. 

 

Favorite workboots have always been whites Semi Dress, standard everything pretty much, with eyelets only, in either the black or brown dress leather (and the horse that Bakers had is very sick too).  I've also been a big fan of slightly more dressy plain or cap toe boots in #8 shell cordovan from Alden.  I've always been really interested in Lone Wolves Mechanics, because I loved my Rickson Service shoes that were a size too small for me, and soon I'll get to handle some in person for the first time.  I'm drawn to the burlier LTT offerings from Wesco because I think it is what they do best (aside from engineers, which I just can't even start trying to make work for me because of my foot volume and skinny skinny ankles), but I haven't found a personal justification for an even heavier burlier boot.  I'm biased towards american made boot designs that have existed as is for decades, and some japanese made boots that capture the essence of vintage american boots in a way that american made heritage or lifestyle lines fail to connect with me on. 

 

At this point, I largely prefer these features when they are present in boots I own, and would likely look for all of these features in any future purchases: I like boots to be unlined, plain-toe, have gusseted tongues, be either 5" or 6" with no speedhooks, heavy mid shine cow leather that is rigid but breaks in nicely over time (I generally dislike oily pull-up leathers like latigo and chromexcel), and have whites style cuban heels, single leather midsole with a rubber half sole and heel.  That said, I'm staring right down the barrel of a pair of Lofgren Donkey Puncher's  which are lined, CXL, and LTT w/speedhooks.  I'm not saying that my stringent preferences preclude picking up a beautiful boot that has a lot going for it if it's available to me...those are just the things I would think about first when building a custom boot.

[aho]

hot damn tmadd, that brought a tear to my eye as we have the exact same taste! Lately I've been moving toward 8" boots however, likely because of winter's approach, but funny that you list the Semi Dress and cap toe #8 Alden's as that's straight out of my closet...

Edited October 9, 2014 by aho

[edmond]

lofgrens come on they use cxl leather And that is cheap

[rockon99]

just picked these up, nothing too special in comparison to many of the beautiful boots in this thread, but they are my first pair of rebuildable, relatively high(er) quality boots. They dance circles around my Doc Martens.. lol

 

sorry for the vsco filters, deleted the originals not thinking about posting them here.

 

 

[tmadd]

lofgrens come on they use cxl leather And that is cheap

 

It's not as expensive as some other top shelf leathers, but on some boots, it works really well for a variety of reasons.  I'm definitely on the record with it not being my favorite leather, but it's not because it doesn't perform well at doing the job it's supposed to do. 

[edmond]

no i mean lofgren charging alot for a pair. but using cheap cxl leather

[Sugar Mountain]

at a certain point, I'll take "sufficiently awesome" over "staring god in the eyes while standing on a moving harley playing van halen solos on a flaming guitar PERFECT" if it's a lot less work.  

 

What a line! I doff my hat to you, sir.

[tmadd]

no i mean lofgren charging alot for a pair. but using cheap cxl leather

 

This is an embarrassingly simple way of looking at things.  I buy boots for the entire finished product, not it's constituent materials. I can't pretend to know Lofgren's reason for seeming to prefer CXL to other leathers, but at the build quality his boots are, you'd likely see them even more expensive with more expensive leathers.  I know it's not completely apples to apples, but if you want to tell me that Buco's are a good deal at $1750 because they are horsehide, but Lofgren's are overpriced at less than a grand, because they are CXL, then we just value things in a tremendously different way.

[mpukas]

Fill me in a bit on horse hide, tmadd and fellas - I get that's it's very expensive because it's rare, limited quantity and very fine, but is it more durable than cow hide?