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Shoes that look better with age...

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Deleted.

Edited by Mich

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The evolution of my Viberg Engineer

 

Before:

1185125_10201971197540561_1158933623_n.j

 

After: 

1235977_10202087322243606_1388974229_n.j

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1236383_10202087322323608_36485150_n.jpg

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988273_10202087323523638_1509799194_n.jp

1238048_10202087355884447_1573704019_n.j

1231378_10202087324763669_1412004023_n.j

 

The half sole and heels are developed by me, inspired by the Cat's Paw and Biltrite collection of my own B)

The soles and heels are made of Nitrile rubber, which has excellent performance in oil-resisting and durability. The half soles equipped with "icy-grip pad," made of a compound of Nitrile rubber and fiberglass, to ensure the grip while walking on icy/slippery surface. Any thoughts on them?  

 

These soles are dope. You should totally mass produce them!

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I like the look of your soles and heels thinker, stitching pattern on the sole looks great, did you do that yourself or through a cobbler?

What are your experiences with them, are they indeed more durable and grippy than Paws, because i find those quite slippery in winter conditions.

Do you have a pair of boots equipped with them with some wear on the soles?

if you were to sell these half soles and heels i'd be interested, depending on what sizes would be available.

Hi Mich,

 

Thanks for the praise. The resole work was done by a local cobbler, who is probably the best we got here. Unfortunately, I just got them back from the cobbler, so I haven't got any chance to experience them. Although having not been tested in fields, these soles and heels should perform very well as the rubber compound has been tested to be very durable. As for the "icy grip pads," they are actually a patent product that has been proved to be able to add grip on icy surfaces. But, they are not guaranteed to prevent you from falling or slip ;)  Anyway, I will test them very soon and you guys will be informed how they perform.

 

What's you shoe size? As the first one who appreciates them, I will be very happy to send you a pair of soles and heels for free. Just let me know by emailing me at: [email protected]   

 

Cheers!

Edited by thinker0217

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I'm not really all that familiar with stitch down so I'm grateful for Thinker0217's contribution.. otherwise I can't really speak either way.

 

My personal preference is fairstitch e.g. blake rapid. Not that it's without some drawback, there is conceivably a point in time where the midsole may need replacing and there's probably only a finite amount of times this can be done with the existing insole due to the puncture into the insole by stitching. I suppose in some respect similar to how many times a stitch down can be restitched, or for that matter too a welt. Curiously, in this respect it could be a benefit of present day goodyear method - canvas rib gemmed, or glued to the insole - when the welt is finally shot, pull off the whole welt and rib as one from the insole, cement on another with no detriment to insole.

 

Speaking of gemming and goodyear, I read somewhere (have now lost the post) that they don't go as hand in hand as it would seem. Of course the goodyear machine was developed to mechanise and expediate a process formerly done by hand, however the introduction of the glued canvas rib may not have been in parallel.

 

Another interesting page here re goodyear / gemming, get it before it's archived http://www.thehcc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14447

Theoretically, you are right about replacing the welt and rib without destroying the insole. But,  when we are talking about the re-sole work, we usually ignore one thing, which plays an extremely important role during the shoe-making process, the last. We know the last decides the comfort  and shape of the shoes. When we send our shoes to a local cobbler to be resoled, the shape of the shoes will no longer be the same as what they were originally because, in most cases, the local cobblers don't have the last from the original maker. Indeed, the change could be so subtle that we don't even notice or care. But, a re-welting job is such a big work that will eventually change the original look and shape of the shoes if it is done without the original last. The insole ca also be replaced if the original last is available. That's why most shoe-makers will suggest customers to send their shoes back to the original maker when their shoes need to be resoled. 

 

Another question you mentioned is about the canvas rib. The rib is more important than any other parts when it comes to Goodyear Welted construction. Without it, the welting process cannot be done by welting machine. However, one thing can replace the canvas rib during the welting process - the lip sliced from the leather insole. Please see the right page of the graph. DSC_0023.JPG    

 

The shoemaker slices the edge of the insole with a machine, which cuts the edge of the insole and forms the "lips." Then, the lips perform just exactly the same as what canvas rids do nowadays - connecting the insole to the welt and uppers. The lips are part of the insole, which is very similar to the traditional hand-sewn welted construction. So, my guess is that perhaps the lips were introduced earlier than the canvas ribs. But, this is just my guess. Please correct me if you have any correct info. 

Edited by thinker0217

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I might hit you up for a pair when it's time to resole my road champs!

Sure, I can't wait to see them on Road Champs!

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thinker- What country do you call home (if you dont mind me asking)? who made to tooling for the production of sole/heels and did you R&D the rubber compound that you choose or did you use a tried and tested compound from an established manufacturer? who holds the patent? If you did the research and development i would be interested in your findings.

Sorry for all the questions dont feel obliged to answer them all.

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Deleted.

Edited by Mich

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thinker- What country do you call home (if you dont mind me asking)? who made to tooling for the production of sole/heels and did you R&D the rubber compound that you choose or did you use a tried and tested compound from an established manufacturer? who holds the patent? If you did the research and development i would be interested in your findings.

Sorry for all the questions dont feel obliged to answer them all.

I don't mind at all  :)

My home country is Taiwan. Since I got my first Red Wing boots back in 2000, I've become a bootsman; boots have become part of my life. I can't help myself but collecting boots that I love. I love them, and I study them like you guys in this forum ;) I'd dreamed someday I could work in the related industry. 

 

I once stayed in Denver, Colorado, for two years from 2009 to 2011, for the master degree. After I got the degree, I decided to work for my wife's family business as a salesman. As I mentioned before, my father-in-law, who has been in rubber/outsole industry for over 40 years, owns an outsole factory in Southern China. During this period in China, I got access to a lot of resources about shoe-making and the footwear industry, and decided it's about time to make my dream come true.

Currently, I am starting two product lines; the first one is the "Dr. Sole Original," and the other one is goodyear welted footwear. 

 

Dr. Sole is the brand name registered by my wife's family business in Taiwan and China, which mainly focuses on women's footwear. I am starting a new product line, called "Dr. Sole Original," which is going to target on people like you guys here. Dr. Sole Original is the result of my passion and experience in boots for the past decade. So, basically I am the chief designer, product manager, and everything behind Dr. Sole Original. Please allow me to introduce some more soles that you guys might be interested in in the future and any suggestion or advice are very welcome.   

 

As for the questions about the compounds, I don't get involved in the R&D of the rubber compounds because most compounds that I chose have been being used for many years, even decades. The patent of the icy grip pad is held by my father-in-law in Taiwan and China. 

 

Please let me know if you guys have any question or advice. 

Many thanks and cheers!

Edited by thinker0217

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Thinker, well done on making your dream come true. Those soles look very nice indeed. More like the old Biltrite which I've personally always preferred over Cat's Paw. Keep us updated on the progress. I'd be down for putting some on a few pairs of boots.

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Thinker, well done on making your dream come true. Those soles look very nice indeed. More like the old Biltrite which I've personally always preferred over Cat's Paw. Keep us updated on the progress. I'd be down for putting some on a few pairs of boots.

Your words are angelic to me, Devilish :)  

Thanks for the kind words. Really happy to know there are some people appreciating my work.

Sure I will keep updating. 

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White's Semi Dress

Swing Last

Medallion Toe Cap

Standard brown dress leather

 

The original sole is double leather sole w/ 90 degree blocked off heel.

The Swing last is quite suitable for lower heel, so I decided to change them to the Cork sole and heels without leather heel base. Check the results below:

 

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1236029_10202098923933641_1465626116_n.j1235215_10202098924013643_1907899641_n.j

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Red Wing 90's Irish Setter #877 w/ Dr. Sole Cushion Traveler

The Cushion series is made of expanded rubber or so-called rubber sponge. The compounds is a signature compound by Dr. Sole; they are lighter, softer, and more flexible than ordinary rubber compounds, making this sole very ideal for those who walk a lot.  

Usually, this style of outsole is made of EVA compound, such as Vibram #2060 or #2021. Though EVA is lighter than expanded rubber, it gets compressed and out of shape easily. However, Cushion series is bouncier than any other soles you've worn before.  

 

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62457_10202098934373902_254376465_n.jpg    

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For me, the "real" stitch-down construction is something like Danner or Clarks Desert boots. The uppers are stitched to soles or mid-soles all around. The Wesco and Viberg stitch-down construction is actually more like a hybrid of stitch-down and nail-down construction. As we can see from the Vibergs and Wescos, only the front half of the vamp are stitched to the leather mid-sole; the leather lining of the toe vamp are glued or nailed to the leather insoles (the orange area in the graph below). Check the graph below.

StchDown.gif

 

The back part of uppers around the heels are nailed between the leather mid-sole and the leather insole.

 

This explains why Wesco and Viberg's stitich-down construction are usually heavier than Goodyear Welted construction; the thick leather insoles and mid-soles are necessary in Wesco and Viberg's stitch down construction. 

 

Compared to Goodyear welted construction, the most apparent advantage of Wesco/Viberg stitch-down construction is probably the performance in waterproof. On the other side, the drawback is that they can be resoled for a very limited times because the stitches that go through the vamp and the soles will eventually tear the vamp, unless the stitch job is done by hand-sewn process. But not many cobblers are willing/able to do this.

 

 

Isn't this basically the same (or as near as dammit) to veldtschoen build, where the upper is turned out to the outside and the lining is lasted underneath?

 

Veldtschoen.png

 

(Pic courtesy of Styleforum but not sure of original provenance)

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thinker- i was not sure whether it was the icy-grip pad that you held the patent too or whether it was for a non-slip rubber compound, thanks for clarification.

 

Congratulations in your endeavours,

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This has been an excellent last page of information, thanks chaps.

 

At the beach today with the boondockers, other half decided to snap pics as I angrily cleared my socks of sand.

utf-8IMG_1155_zpsb2b38c26.jpg

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Isn't this basically the same (or as near as dammit) to veldtschoen build, where the upper is turned out to the outside and the lining is lasted underneath?

 

Veldtschoen.png

 

(Pic courtesy of Styleforum but not sure of original provenance)

Basically, yes. The idea is the same, but Veldtschoen is a hybrid of stitch-down and Goodyear.

The difference between Wesco/Viberg stitch-down and Veldtschoen lies in how the lining attaches to the insole. The way Wesco/Viberg fix the lining underneath the insole is through nail/glue. However, Veldtschoen is like Goodyear; the lining is stitched to the welt and the rib underneath the insole (see the picture CTB offered).

 

Veldtchoen is an evolution of Goodyear to prevent water from penetrating into the gap between uppers and welt. 

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Deleted.

Edited by Mich

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Basically, yes. The idea is the same, but Veldtschoen is a hybrid of stitch-down and Goodyear.

The difference between Wesco/Viberg stitch-down and Veldtschoen lies in how the lining attaches to the insole. The way Wesco/Viberg fix the lining underneath the insole is through nail/glue. However, Veldtschoen is like Goodyear; the lining is stitched to the welt and the rib underneath the insole (see the picture CTB offered).

 

Veldtchoen is an evolution of Goodyear to prevent water from penetrating into the gap between uppers and welt. 

 

So, out of interest, what would you say are the benefits and drawbacks of the different ways of doing it? Presumably the key benefits for the wearer would be the same, am I right?

 

I think I mentioned way back in the day that I'd seen a pic of an old pair of high leg (American) boots that were stitch-down with a full bellows tongue and I wondered on here at the time if they were just different names for the same water resistant construction.

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Dr. Sole logo is smart 

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Alden ravello dover PTB on modified last. 

 

tumblr_mtiwv79NhI1s5ebo0o3_1280.jpg

 

tumblr_mtiwv79NhI1s5ebo0o2_1280.jpg

 

tumblr_mtiwv79NhI1s5ebo0o1_1280.jpg
Edited by Crat

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Thinker, the tranformation of your White's to the cork sole is interesting, it gives them more of a workwear appeal and makes them look less dressy.

The properties of the Cushion sole sound great, lighter and bouncier than Vibram and keeping their shape better, i suppose they wear down less fast also?

Based on my experience, I would say they are pretty much the same as the Vibram #2021/2060 in terms of durability, but perform better than Red Wing's Traction soles. However, this is just my experience, but these soles are definitely not some crap soles made of some unknown cheap compounds.  

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So, out of interest, what would you say are the benefits and drawbacks of the different ways of doing it? Presumably the key benefits for the wearer would be the same, am I right?

 

I think I mentioned way back in the day that I'd seen a pic of an old pair of high leg (American) boots that were stitch-down with a full bellows tongue and I wondered on here at the time if they were just different names for the same water resistant construction.

In fact, I am really curious about whether Wesco/Viberg stitch-down is 100% waterproof because the back half of the boot is nail-down. Is nail-down able to keep the water from penetrating into the boot? That is my question.

 

As for your question about the benefits and drawbacks of either construction. I would say that the Wesco/Viberg stitch-down needs more work done by hand as half of the shoes is nail-down. On the other hand, most of the stitch jobs (welt stitching and sole stitching) of Veldtschoen/Goodyear are done by machines. That is, the production time of Wesco/Viberg Stitch-down would probably takes longer than Veldtschoen (Goodyear) does. 

 

But, I don't know how to define whether it's benefit or drawback. For me, they are different shoe-making process based on similar idea. 

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Red Wing #2001 Eric Clapton

Hand-dyed, dubbed with Sno-Seal, and resoled

The Eric Clapton boots by Red Wing (#1945, #1987, and #2001) are truly collectible items for me. It is said that Red Wing built the boots based Eric Clapton's ideas and preference. There are many interesting details that attracted me very much.

 

1. The leather rolled-up. Most Red Wing round-toe boots are without the leather rolled-up.

2. The leather lining. The vamp of most Red Wing round-toe boots are canvas-lined, but the Eric Clapton boots are leather-lined.

3. The "round toe." In most cases, Red Wing round toe boots are built with last No. 8, but Eric Clapton boots are actually built with last No. 23 that is used to make Red Wing Moc-toe boots.

 

The original look:

items2011px2.jpg

picture is from styleforum.net

 

Transformed:

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If I ever saw the Clapton boots in US 13D on ebay, I would bid for them without a second thought. 

Edited by thinker0217

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The shoemaker slices the edge of the insole with a machine, which cuts the edge of the insole and forms the "lips." Then, the lips perform just exactly the same as what canvas rids do nowadays - connecting the insole to the welt and uppers. The lips are part of the insole, which is very similar to the traditional hand-sewn welted construction. So, my guess is that perhaps the lips were introduced earlier than the canvas ribs. But, this is just my guess. Please correct me if you have any correct info. 

 

I think the machine is cutting the feather, where the upper and welt are sewn onto the insole. This is the original method of Goodyear welting and is still used for bespoke footwear (except the feather is cut by hand) - see e.g. p. 136 of Vass and Molnar, Handmade Shoes for Men. I don't know when the canvas rib was introduced, but the technique - apparently now almost universally used for bench-made shoes - is reliant on very powerful and quick-setting adhesive. 

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