W. H. Ranch Dungarees

[Tapori]

On 05/12/2017 at 3:41 AM, 428CJ said:

I love this thread, especially the first coupla pages. I can't wait to get a pair of these.

Don't hold yer breath mate. I'm at 14 months, and still waiting.

[dudewuttheheck]

4 hours ago, Tapori said:

Don't hold yer breath mate. I'm at 14 months, and still waiting.

Yup. I finally got my jacket and jeans and am selling them due to the wait and poor communication. I just don't want to wear them.

[428CJ]

16 hours ago, Tapori said:

Don't hold yer breath mate. I'm at 14 months, and still waiting.

 

12 hours ago, dudewuttheheck said:

Yup. I finally got my jacket and jeans and am selling them due to the wait and poor communication. I just don't want to wear them.

I'm not holding my breath. I went in prepared, and I was given an estimate of over a year when I asked.

Ryan's communication with me was incredibly attentive, detailed, friendly, and over all professional. This is not to diminish your frustration with him. I can't speak for him across the board––just in regards to my own dealings with him.

I would suggest to just get over the emotions that are connected to the jeans, and enjoy them for what they are––inanimate objects. If you don't like the cut or something else about them in the physical sense, then sure, it makes sense to sell them. But if you actually like them, then it makes no sense to get rid of them just because you have a problem with the guy who made them.

Edited January 5, 2018 by 428CJ

[mpukas]

@dudewuttheheck I agree w/ @428CJ - get over your emotions and keep the jeans and jacket, if you like them. Those of us who have never met Ryan know nothing about what may be going on in his personal/business life. But I completely agree with the sentiment about lack of communication. That's not good business practice. That would be enough to put me off from ordering a pair in the first place. But since you finally got them, just enjoy them for what they are, and they are remarkable. 

[mpukas]

I'm just put off by the front and rear pockets. Front pockets are difficult to use, and rear pocket placement is really wide. I readily admit mine were an impulse buy fueled by hype. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by mpukas
civility

[dudewuttheheck]

Nah, I was very poorly treated. I'd much rather have the money and I don't want to wear anything other than my Conners jeans anyway.

[mpukas]

How were you treated so poorly? 

[428CJ]

4 hours ago, mpukas said:

I'm just put off by the stupid front and rear pockets. Front pockets are useless, and rear pockets placement looks odd. I readily admit mine were an impulse buy fueled by hype. 

What makes the front pockets useless?

[dudewuttheheck]

3 hours ago, mpukas said:

How were you treated so poorly? 

Ignored, had questions dodged, trashed on another forum by Ryan himself when I said I was unhappy with the customer service and wait to. I have been contacted privately by 5 different people saying they had bad experiences with him. 

[Tapori]

@dudewuttheheck

Sounds like you've had a crap experience.

I've just resigned myself to "they get here when they get here."

Good time to get my AW 15oz Caribou's into rotation. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Tapori

[mlwdp]

I guess I'll post this.  I may delete this to respect privacy..

a few months, I spoke to a store owner in Greensboro about WH Ranch Denim as they currently carry it.  The owner of the store told me that Ryan is very busy, with family life I won't go into detail.. 

Anyway, the owner did inform me that the  denim is his second job.  Just putting this out there as I currently have access to WH Rangh Denim in person unlike some of the members on here. 

Either way, the man has a lot on his plate besides denim..I don't think he's doing things on purpose but that's just my IMO.

[Outdoorsman]

Imo there's something profoundly wrong with the business model of a company if customers are waiting more than a year for basic items like jeans. If you can't handle the present volume of orders don't accept any new ones. Let them join a waiting list if they are willing to wait for your items. Yes, you'll lose some customers who will take their business elsewhere, but collecting as much money from customers as possible and then let them play the waiting-game is pretty dubious.

[428CJ]

1 hour ago, Outdoorsman said:

Imo there's something profoundly wrong with the business model of a company if customers are waiting more than a year for basic items like jeans. If you can't handle the present volume of orders don't accept any new ones. Let them join a waiting list if they are willing to wait for your items. Yes, you'll lose some customers who will take their business elsewhere, but collecting as much money from customers as possible and then let them play the waiting-game is pretty dubious.

I do believe that he should move to a 50% deposit, instead of payment in full up front.

That said, I knew what I signed up for from the beginning, and he's been nothing but professional with me so far.

[JDelage]

I collect knives, and popular knifemakers have a long lead time. Rule of thumb is: never pay a large deposit. I'd say 10% to show you're serious is the max I would advocate. There is no reason for a well run business to ask for a material deposit before they start incurring costs.

[dudewuttheheck]

2 hours ago, JDelage said:

I collect knives, and popular knifemakers have a long lead time. Rule of thumb is: never pay a large deposit. I'd say 10% to show you're serious is the max I would advocate. There is no reason for a well run business to ask for a material deposit before they start incurring costs.

I think that it is fair to say that the wait times not being accurately told as well as asking for a full deposit is not the best idea for him. Also, I think that the denim being a second job would make sense, but if that's true we can definitely add being lied to as another issue I have with him.

[JDelage]

Estimating time-to-delivery is very hard even for well meaning and experienced craftsmen. It is much less of a problem if customers haven't paid beforehand.

[Sensuki]

The wait time for Equus Leather is pretty long, but they communicate the wait quite well. That said I think they have 1-2 employees working on customer service stuff.

[Mifune]

Have any of you who are frustrated with waiting asked to have your deposit refunded and your order terminated? That would be the best test of the transparency of this maker. 

[mpukas]

On 1/4/2018 at 11:39 PM, 428CJ said:

What makes the front pockets useless?

Front pocket openings are cut high such with a belt on I can't get my hands in them, and the pocket bags are  shallow so that anything that I put in them sits right at my hip crease when I sit. The back pockets are spaced really wide. They're more like hip pockets. They're not like this on his other models. The jeans are awesome otherwise. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by mpukas
civility

[428CJ]

8 hours ago, mpukas said:

Front pocket openings are cut too high such with a belt on I can't get my hands in them, and the pocket bags are so shallow that anything that I put in them sits right at my hip crease when I sit. As I said previously, the front pockets look like they're modeled after low-rise designer girl jeans. The back pockets are spaced really wide, and they're small too. They're more like hip pockets than back pockets. They're not like this on his other models. A shame as they jeans are awesome otherwise. 

I went back and looked again at the posts you were talking about. Now that I see the cut you're talking about and read your comments, I get what you're saying. But, a handful of points:

1. The back pockets and belt loops look to me just like those on the jeans on which that model is based (and like these parts of my Japanese repros of a similar-vintage cut). The pockets look great at that location, IMO. They were placed almost at the outseams by Lee as a response to Wranglers entering the market in the late '40's, with a pocket location that "improves" on Levi's (at least for those who actually rode horses or motorcycles). If you know and love old Lees, you know this. If you don't, then you aren't going to like most W.H. Ranch jeans. The Steer Rider is based on the most famous and classic Lee jeans cut (the "James Dean jean"), and it looks to me, based on pix anyhow, that W.H. Ranch reproduced them pretty faithfully.

2. This cut of jeans was solidly mid rise, in historical context. This cut a bit into front pocket depth compared to other brands.

3. Your belt is wider than average: A. Not a good fit with this cut, as you have discovered. B. Looks cartoonishly large on those jeans IMO (needs a baggier cut to look right). 3. Cuts even more into your comfortable access to the already-shallow pockets. Try a 1.5" belt at max with those jeans. 1.25" would be even better; it's a better match aesthetically IMO.

4. Given items 2 and 3 above, and the attached photo of the pocket bags of the Steer Riders, the front pockets being girly jeans depth (which I take as being maybe 5–6 inches, measured from the *longest* point internally to the waistband) seems like a weird screw up. I wonder what they measure at. My '50's Lee repros (which, being a 1950 repro look incredibly close to your jeans, but have an extra inch of rise on yours) have 9" pocket bags at their longest point (measured as stated above). Keeping the bottom of the pockets bags in the same location, and adjusting for the difference in rise, that would translate to your jeans *supposed* to be having 8" deep pocket bags. This seems like something that W.H. might fix/modify for you if you were to question them (or him, rather) about it. If nothing else, it's an easy fix at any tailor (or even at home) to extend the pocket bags.

5. Despite your comments about the 35's being meh, to me it looks like you need 35's to achieve a "regular" fit for that cut. The top block on you has a slightly downsized fit (not by today's standards, but for that cut). You can easily size this cut the way you have, and it will look good – but doing so *does* exacerbate the rear pocket situation that you don't like, and kill some rise and pocket depth. The wide '50's Lee pocket placement looks better if the fit is a bit more relaxed.

6. You bought these jeans in person. The problems you have with them are pretty glaring, but you bought them anyhow.

FWIW, all things being said, I think your jeans look good. The front pocket thing is really bizarre. It'd be good to get to the bottom of it. Have you asked Ryan about it?

Edited January 7, 2018 by 428CJ

[mpukas]

@428CJ - thnx for all of your detailed comments. I appreciate everything you've said. But, I couldn't care less about historically accurate reproductions of anything. A pet peeve of mine with Japanese denim - as well as other non-JP makers - is pockets that are usable. That's primarily what's kept me from getting a pair of FH's. Yeah, my belts may look cartoonish on these jeans because the belts loops are short and closely spaced together. Maybe someday I'll get a narrower belt with a smaller buckle just so I can wear these jeans comfortably (but that kind of absurd to me). I have other jeans that my belts look perfectly fine on and the pockets are functional. 

Like I said, I bought these jeans as an impulse buy fueled by hype. I didn't put my belt on these jeans in the store, and without a belt the pockets felt ok. I knew the back pockets were wide, but until I took the flasher off and wore them for real I didn't really get a good feel for them. 

... 

And, for WIW as an observation/comment, all of the real working cowboys I see around my area and other areas of the Rockies that I've traveled to, are all wearing Wranglers that are relatively tight fitting - medium-high to high waist, slim hips and thighs, straight leg. They wear big belts with big buckles. There're damn good reasons for the way they wear their jeans. I've seen first hand, while working a stint as a shot gun coach at a private ranch, what happened to an older gentleman client getting into the saddle while wearing loose trousers. He sat right squarely on of of his boys and couldn't walk upright for a week afterwards, and said he had bruising going all the way down his leg to his knee. 

So, I don't really get where this reference to cowboys wearing loose cuts comes from. Perhaps it was that 75-125 years ago there was limited sizing and people wore what they could get. I'm certainly no denim historian, so I really don't know what cowboys were wearing many years ago, I'm only commenting on what I see in my area. I'm pretty sure the 70+ yr old guy I saw driving his beat up old Dodge 1-ton diesel, pulling his 5th wheel horse trailer with three cattle dogs in the open back gives zero f***s about whether or not his Wranglers that he bought at the local co-op are historically accurate reproductions. I share some of the sentiments of these fella's, but I also like nice things which is why I'm here. 

[orchestrion]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:50 PM, dudewuttheheck said:

but if that's true we can definitely add being lied to as another issue I have with him.

Jesus Christ man...

[dudewuttheheck]

6 hours ago, orchestrion said:

Jesus Christ man...

Yeah I know. He really is a piece of work.

[orchestrion]

Not what I was referring to 

[mpukas]

17 hours ago, mpukas said:

But, I couldn't care less about historically accurate reproductions of anything.

I'm gonna back-pedal on this statement a little, as I don't what to leave this hanging out there in inter-space, and seem like a complete curmudgeon.While personally I'm not bothered by historically accurate reproductions, I appreciate and respect that other folks are into it, both makers and users. Historical garments and details inspires just about everything I wear to some degree. My main concerns are about fit & function as I use garments/goods today. 

[dudewuttheheck]

5 hours ago, orchestrion said:

Not what I was referring to 

So I'm the bad guy because I'm letting people know that I was treated poorly buy a guy who runs a brand and was lied to? Right... That makes complete sense. Your logic could not be more sound. 

[ColonelAngus]

[428CJ]

On 1/7/2018 at 2:24 PM, mpukas said:

@428CJ - thnx for all of your detailed comments. I appreciate everything you've said. But, I couldn't care less about historically accurate reproductions of anything. A pet peeve of mine with Japanese denim - as well as other non-JP makers - is pockets that are usable. That's primarily what's kept me from getting a pair of FH's. Yeah, my belts may look cartoonish on these jeans because the belts loops are short and closely spaced together. Maybe someday I'll get a narrower belt with a smaller buckle just so I can wear these jeans comfortably (but that kind of absurd to me). I have other jeans that my belts look perfectly fine on and the pockets are functional. 

Like I said, I bought these jeans as an impulse buy fueled by hype. I didn't put my belt on these jeans in the store, and without a belt the pockets felt ok. I knew the back pockets were wide, but until I took the flasher off and wore them for real I didn't really get a good feel for them. 

... 

And, for WIW as an observation/comment, all of the real working cowboys I see around my area and other areas of the Rockies that I've traveled to, are all wearing Wranglers that are relatively tight fitting - medium-high to high waist, slim hips and thighs, straight leg. They wear big belts with big buckles. There're damn good reasons for the way they wear their jeans. I've seen first hand, while working a stint as a shot gun coach at a private ranch, what happened to an older gentleman client getting into the saddle while wearing loose trousers. He sat right squarely on of of his boys and couldn't walk upright for a week afterwards, and said he had bruising going all the way down his leg to his knee. 

So, I don't really get where this reference to cowboys wearing loose cuts comes from. Perhaps it was that 75-125 years ago there was limited sizing and people wore what they could get. I'm certainly no denim historian, so I really don't know what cowboys were wearing many years ago, I'm only commenting on what I see in my area. I'm pretty sure the 70+ yr old guy I saw driving his beat up old Dodge 1-ton diesel, pulling his 5th wheel horse trailer with three cattle dogs in the open back gives zero f***s about whether or not his Wranglers that he bought at the local co-op are historically accurate reproductions. I share some of the sentiments of these fella's, but I also like nice things which is why I'm here. 

Hello,

The issues of whether you care whether a repro is accurate or not, or what you see cowboys around your area wearing are not really important to my comments. 

My main point was that you went into a store and purchased in person (a luxury few of us have) one of a line of jeans that not only takes heavy inspiration from old Lee items – in fact being very true to vintage in many ways – but that uses this inspiration and vintage accuracy as a major point of marketing. Regardless of what jeans are being discussed, if you tried them on in person, it's unfair to knock 'em so hard; you can only knock your choice to buy them. You appear to have been unaware at the time that they were basically old Lee repros. It seems totally unfair to be so disturbed by the rear pockets, when they are, in fact, one of the main distinguishing features of that style of jeans. Bottom line, that complaint can't be held as a mark against the company. Learn more about the item you're about to drop $300 or $400 on, and judge the aesthetics better in the store next time.

Where your critique has merit is with the front pockets, if they are really 5 or 6 inch pocket bags. However, a photo of a tailor's tape or a ruler on top of the pocket bags is the only thing that would provide this forum with an objective take on the potential problem.

I have made no judgements as to the relative merits of Lee-based repros and modern Wranglers. The two lines of jeans would never be put up against each other by working cowboys, obviously; the comparison would be ridiculous, as the markets for the two items have almost no crossover. I simply described the W.H. line, and especially that cut, for what it is. That cut is a very specific old-style cut – one of the most famous jeans cuts of all time, in fact – of which anyone who is  denim enthusiast should have at least superficial knowledge. I wear jeans everywhere from grape-smuggling fits that I probably shouldn't be wearing, to painfully accurate old-school cuts, to modern Wranglers. I've bought, and indiscriminately wear, everything from $1.00 thrift store Levi's to idiotically expensive pairs. I am not a vintage snob by any means, and my tastes run the spectrum. I simply think that you can't go out of your way buy a certain, very specific style of jean, and then harshly judge certain features of it that are the exact features that define that certain, very specific style. It's like buying a high-end sub-model of Corvette, and then saying that because you don't like two seaters, or you prefer front wheel drive, or you can't fit a sheet of plywood in the trunk, that the car has features that you find dumb and/or useless.

I have also made no judgments as to the relative merits of sizing/fit. (E.g. stating some shit like real cowboys wear baggy pants. I would never do that, nor would I probably use the term "real cowboys" outside of irony, sarcasm, or quotation). I simply stated that you appeared to have sized the jeans down from a middle-of-the-road, average fit, and that this makes the wide pockets look a little more odd than normal. Pretty much every standard cut of straight jeans has a range of four or five sizes that any given person can get into. How to size within this range is a personal choice, not something that can be flatly stated as right or wrong. But one can say that certain fits have certain aesthetic effects, and that is what I did.

FWIW, I find Wrangler Cowboy Cuts to be the best fitting and highest value pants on the market. If I was a cowboy, I'd probably choose them as my work clothes, for no small reason because they are so cheap. However, be aware that they are produced in five main varieties, from leg hugging to baggy, and straight and flared. You can bet that Wrangler sells all of them to "real working cowboys," so they can wear their jeans in whatever fit and size works best for them.

Edited January 9, 2018 by 428CJ
changed "or" to "of"

[mpukas]

withdrawn

Edited January 10, 2018 by mpukas
civility

[shredwin_206]

Wow. This thread got pretty wild. Got excited to see a bunch of new posts but no product shots. Haha