WW2 repro / detailed jeans

[MJF9]

All cool doc... it only really reminded me of the FW thread chat hence my update above

[Maynard Friedman]

9 hours ago, MJF9 said:

I wouldn't want this thread to unravel... but it's like going into a 30s repro thread (if one existed) and saying what's the point of adding a cinch and suspender buttons to the jeans, or a 50s thread and asking for a 25cm rise instead.   Or looking at the latest TCB 1890s repro and questioning why there's only one pocket...

If the manufacturers are doing a repro, then if what they're copying has wonky-ness then I'd expect them to replicate that.  It's just a feature of the time.

I’m not sure I agree with this. The cinch/suspender buttons/number of pockets, etc were functional/design features of the jeans in certain eras and would have been standard across all pairs produced by a company (such as Levi’s). Obviously there may have been slight variations where one factory may have made still added a crotch rivet or cinch after others had stopped, etc. Wonky stitching wasn’t a functional/design feature, it was an accidental quirk simply due to untrained/inexperienced machinists and possibly poor QC. I’m sure there were thousands of WW2 pairs made with perfectly good, straight stitching and conversely quite likely a number of pairs from other eras with bad stitching, loose threads, etc (although these may have been more likely to have been picked up by QC).

The wonkiness is simply a feature of some pairs that repro manufacturers have chosen to focus on, which, even if commonplace was not standard or deliberate at the time.

[MJF9]

Yep I wouldn't disagree with you Marnard... though I'm not sure what you're not sure you agree with

To add... my FW WW2 era jackets are far more cleanly constructed (and a different fit) than my SC or Connors repros of similar era... though I'm not sure if that's FW's design choice or they were copying a cleaner vintage specimen from that time... 

[Maynard Friedman]

I suppose I’m just a disagreeable fellow! 😆 

[MJF9]

I'm not sure I agree with this 😃

[Dr_Heech]

^^^^Also don't forget only one factory going into WW2 (1942) and at least 3 factories coming out so alot of new and untrained machine operators and a change in the new, more simplified design of the 501xx for skilled/trained levis employees to have to rush through for service industries. 

[Duke Mantee]

2 hours ago, MJF9 said:

Yep I wouldn't disagree with you Marnard... though I'm not sure what you're not sure you agree with

To add... my FW WW2 era jackets are far more cleanly constructed (and a different fit) than my SC or Connors repros of similar era... though I'm not sure if that's FW's design choice or they were copying a cleaner vintage specimen from that time... 

It was FW choice. Sushi doesn’t agree with the ‘wonky’ stitching for much the same reason I do. It did exist, it always had, albeit new factories and therefore new operatives (as Doc rightly says) caused some issues which subsequently settled as those operatives gained experience.

Control standards were certainly lower because Levi’s were coining it in with increased output but as with every process a level of equilibrium is established.

I just think brands are looking for extreme examples to make their mark.

In any event FW didn’t see any reason to ask a high quality factory to produce low quality work so there was only a nod to the ‘wonkiness’ … that from the factory owner.

[chicote]

In thinking about this, I also consider the brands’ sewing machine operators.. I know that many brands here focus on extremely accurate reproductions, but perhaps this late trend to amplify stitching ‘errors’ is an emergence of the latent artistry of the sewers themselves. I know for myself as an artist, if you put me down in front of a flower and ask me to draw it, I’ll tend to over-emphasize the curviness of the leaves and the shading of the petals over all else. That’s my own deviance from realism that I’ve found emerged subconsciously from my own artistic practice over the years, and it’ll surely be different from that of the next artist who comes in to draw the same scene. I think you can make a strong case that the sewing work done for these brands is more like factory work than like art, but I do wonder if in designing these repros whether the people assigned to come up with the sewing pattern don’t relish the chance for a little extra wonkiness, their creative touch in an industry that for the most part seemed quite a bit more rigid in its techniques. Totally not basing this off anything, just a speculation!

[Duke Mantee]

43 minutes ago, chicote said:

In thinking about this, I also consider the brands’ sewing machine operators.. I know that many brands here focus on extremely accurate reproductions, but perhaps this late trend to amplify stitching ‘errors’ is an emergence of the latent artistry of the sewers themselves. I know for myself as an artist, if you put me down in front of a flower and ask me to draw it, I’ll tend to over-emphasize the curviness of the leaves and the shading of the petals over all else. That’s my own deviance from realism that I’ve found emerged subconsciously from my own artistic practice over the years, and it’ll surely be different from that of the next artist who comes in to draw the same scene. I think you can make a strong case that the sewing work done for these brands is more like factory work than like art, but I do wonder if in designing these repros whether the people assigned to come up with the sewing pattern don’t relish the chance for a little extra wonkiness, their creative touch in an industry that for the most part seemed quite a bit more rigid in its techniques. Totally not basing this off anything, just a speculation!

… in that Levi’s operatives in 1942 most certainly didn’t have the time to be artistic 

[Dr_Heech]

@Duke Mantee sorry moved post to FW thread

 

Edited April 27 by Dr_Heech
Move post

[julian-wolf]

Maybe this is overly cynical, but I don’t see it as a total coincidence that so many new, low-volume one-man brands are popping up right during the craze of wonky-stitched WW2 jeans. When it comes down to it, just as in the case of the original Levi’s, wonky jeans can be made more easily and more quickly by less skilled machinists. I appreciate the more optimistic take that in many cases it might be a conscious design decision or an artistic liberty, but in more than a few cases I’d bet that it’s just an excuse for someone who’s really not ready to be selling jeans to the public to do so under the guise of reproduction.

[Dr_Heech]

Thought l'd share - pinched it from Matt @Rivethead. S501XX probably.

 

Edited May 1 by Dr_Heech

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^ sized down for that famous Sufu fit!

[Dr_Heech]

3 minutes ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

^ sized down for that famous Sufu fit!

Maybe they're CSF ? Looks happy. Probably chuffed he got a pair to fit 😅

 

[Duke Mantee]

2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

Maybe they're CSF ? Looks happy. Probably chuffed he got a pair to fit 😅

 

Probably ordered them during the war and they’ve just arrived 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^ but only if you invaded Japan and had a chance to order in person.

Anyway, here is a size chart to those "Mobilization" WW2 jackets from Militora