Shoes that look better with age...

[kss447]

Yes, the uppers are moccasin construction, but the sole is made to look as if it is a welt or a midsole is attached to the uppers with a wedge sole glued to the midsole/welt. Here is a pic of them so you can see. The brown line is, at the very least, made to look like it is a welt or a midsole. The welt/midsole should be stitched to the uppers and then the sole can be stitched or glued to the welt/midsole.

 

A shoe that is made with true moccasin construction but that also has something other than a traditional leather moccasin sole still needs to have a midsole/welt attached to it to permit the wedge or other sole to be attached. This pic is taken directly from Russell Moccasin (someone who does this exact type of shoe the correct way), and it shows how the addition of any other type of sole does in fact require a welt/midsole, unlike what both of you have just said.

 

You can see in the leftmost pic that the stitching should go through the moccasin constructed uppers into the midsole/welt, and then the midsole can be either stitched or glued to the sole itself.

 

As I understand garden gnomes' problem with his pair, the midsole/welt was never stitched to the uppers and was instead glued to the uppers and the sole. That is not done properly for a moccasin constructed shoe with a non-traditional sole. The excuse that the shoes were moccasin construction doesn't fly. This is just shoddy construction.

 

 

You are correct about the construction, you definitely need a midsole. I never claimed a midsole was unnecessary, just that they were not goodyear welted or anything of that nature. The welt stitching is decorative, AKA shitty glued construction.

 

I didn't want to go into full detail on midsole/slipsole construction as I didn't think it was necessary. Ideally, you would want mocc stitched through the bottom to a midsole (blake stitch), which is then stitched (around the edge of the welt) to the slipsole, which is then glued to the sole (which is how NEOC and I think Quoddy does it).

 

OSB use midsoles but not slip soles. OSB doesn't simply glue the bottom of the moccasin to the midsole, that's absurd. They just have poor gluing techniques.

[rayw44]

At this point you're just talking over me and not even addressing the issue Garden Gnomes personally had with his pair. These complaints were made not to generally bitch, but to address an actual instance of awful workmanship by an upstart trying to get consumers to pay $400+ for their products.

Is it absurd for the soles to be solely glued on? Yes. Is that what seems to have happened in his case? Yes. Unless I'm not understanding what happened to his pair, that is evidence of more than just a shitty glue job. It's terrble construction!

I'm not sure what you're trying to defend based on what actually seemed to have happened. Maybe Garden Gnomes can shed more light on what actually failed and the full extent of it.

[Max Power]

Guys, I need your help in double checking my size in Whites (Oxfords). I am a 10,5 in all Red Wings and 10 in Viberg. From what I've read I think I should stick with a 10,5 in Whites - or have I been mislead?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Max Power

[fre-co]

double post...

Edited March 5, 2015 by fre-co

[fre-co]

I would go the same in rw and whites yes, the only one that I would consider sizing down in would be nomads. But I have never had oxfords, do you know if they have their own last?

[Max Power]

I'm not sure, I think they're based on a low Smokejumper. But your advise seems to blend in with what I've read, so I think I'm ready to go now. Thank you! Just sold some Red Wings and can't wait.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Max Power

[fre-co]

Enjoy them and of course pat pictures.

[Max Power]

Thank you! The Order has been placed, now the wait begins and the hoping, that they'll fit.

[edmond]

on nicks oxford pls siZe down half a size on your whites senindress

[kss447]

At this point you're just talking over me and not even addressing the issue Garden Gnomes personally had with his pair. These complaints were made not to generally bitch, but to address an actual instance of awful workmanship by an upstart trying to get consumers to pay $400+ for their products.

Is it absurd for the soles to be solely glued on? Yes. Is that what seems to have happened in his case? Yes. Unless I'm not understanding what happened to his pair, that is evidence of more than just a shitty glue job. It's terrble construction!

I'm not sure what you're trying to defend based on what actually seemed to have happened. Maybe Garden Gnomes can shed more light on what actually failed and the full extent of it.

 

 

Apologies. You are correct, the focus should be on GG's pair. Without knowing the specifics, however, I'm uncomfortable with the claim that the bottom is simply glued. I've never heard of that before, never seen a complaint of that nature. I'm willing to change my tune but I'd like to see some evidence first.

[Cucoo]

Just a quick pic since I finally found my dream western boot  I've had these plain pointed ankle boots for about a year but I hated the "ankle boot" part all this time. I've been scouting the web for a similar plain, no decoration boot ever since and now I found exactly what I was looking for, a boot version of my exact ankle boot. Made by hand in Spain by Sendra but strangely not available anywhere but a small Italian web shop.

 

Same last, same heel, same leather

 

[mpukas]

Cucoo - nice score! Sendra makes great boots. Must see fit pics. 

[Max Power]

Baker's are great - Kyle is a great guy to deal with and as they had a similar pair in stock they get shipped out today already.

[Projectp]

Agreed. I can't speak highly enough of Baker, and Kyle in particular. He just helped me work through a fairly terrible experience with White's (details upon request), and was able to facilitate a painless return/exchange for a pair of Wesco Jobmasters. I wish I had your luck, but I'm looking at 2-3 months now for my new boots.

[Megatron1505]

Agreed totally on the Kyle love in, the man is unbelievably helpful and very knowledgable. You'll love the oxfords Flo, mine were on my feet for 2 years before I screwed them up with a bad resole job.

 

I was going to buy another pair this year but opted for Wesco oxfords instead, looking forward to seeing how they measure up.

[mpukas]

...looking forward to seeing how they measure up.

me too (your shoes that is). What did you get, and when will you have them? 

[Megatron1505]

I ordered a LTT oxford in an olive burlap with an arbortread sole, Giles has ordered it for me as the leather is exclusive to him.

[mpukas]

sounds great Gav. Can't wait to see them. 

[Planetarium]

Kyle owns. That is all.

[Maynard Friedman]

^ Keep this under your hat, but I hear that he actually rents...

[HoustonChris]

olive burlap

Love Wesco's burlap leather, and I'm eager to see the olive version.

[Mr. Blue]

Just for fun:

Wesco

[patrick_b]

Some pics of my [over priced/hyped] Viberg Svc Boot in Mocha Roughout on 2040. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but with the 100+ inches of snow this year, I wanted the added water/weather protection so I treated the roughout with Obenauf HDLP. After a few weeks of wear, the nap started coming back in some areas more than others. I'm very pleased with their appearance now. I took a bit of a risk but am happy with the result. They are coming up on 6 months of wear.

 

 

 

 

 

[mpukas]

I like the way the rough-out leather looks treated like that. 

[onehundy]

lol Friedman how you come up with the random things you do..

[BillyHoyle]

Does anyone know where I could get a pair of these - or something very similar?

 

Edited March 8, 2015 by BillyHoyle

[Megatron1505]

Yep, here you go with plenty of custom options also....

 

http://www.wescoboots.com/wesco/info.asp

[BillyHoyle]

^^^amazing! Thank you

[edmond]

max how much for the oxford? and how di dyou size ?

[Max Power]

max how much for the oxford? and how di dyou size ?

 

I went with 10,5E. Price was as listed on their Homepage 320 plus shipping. They refunded me the extra shipping I paid as well - great guys. And if I had Chosen my adress (not my parent's) I would have gotten them today already.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Max Power