Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Paul T]

The way I understand it is that the fabric has to be wet in order for shrinkage to occur, as the dryer heats up the water in the fabric and thus shrinking it...

I did notice that one one of the items that I did throw in the dryer is after a year of use considerably lighter overall than another item made out of the same denim. It's still nice and contrasty it's just that the denim is a lot brighter blue through out the whole piece...

Not LVC but I'd say that this goes for all denim...

Re not soaking before the first wear... I've done this accidentally and it gives a great fade (with Lee RIders that were supposedly Sanforized but weren't); and I normally soak and have always been happy with the results.

I don't see any reason at all to be dogmatic either way; airfrog's jeans look great, for me the main criterion is the sizing, as I don't like them too baggy. My current SDAs I soaked and starched and that gave a terrific result. WE have seen so many jeans on here, and other threads, that have so many different approaches, showing there are many different routes to denim nirvana.

The one thing I would say is not subjective, or personal, is the effect of putting your jeans in a dryer. According to Cone, this strips out the last vestiges of starches and other resins, which will take the indigo alongswith them, so you will lose more of that inky darkness in the non-worn parts of your jeans.

[Paul T]

Check out these ORIGINAL 1937-41 Levis 201 -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472782756&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Awesome !

.

Terrific, thanks for posting these. Very interesting. Fabric on these later ones looks identical to the regular 501 fabric. Very wide legs (I wonder what the original size was); and someone dry-cleaned them, maybe he was using the arifrog non-ash method!ONly had a 5-second look but are those bar-tacked as well as riveted pockets??

The 47-50 pair look great too; the shape, for a 34 34, look pretty close to my LVC, definitely more like the LVC 47 than the 55.

[runormal]

I think the meaning of that, in this instance is that they are not planned for reappearance in the 2010 collection. I'll have to check the blogs though to verify that. Either way I don't think LVC releases much info beyond the next immediate season.

Thanks for the info! Recently I have been wearing the 1967 505s and I want to get another pair of LVC but a cut that is very different than this pair - I am thinking the 1933 501 would def add some variety to my otherwise slimmer fitting jean selection...

[cheapmuthafukr]

id wear those as every day jeans.

[airfrogusmc]

Re not soaking before the first wear... I've done this accidentally and it gives a great fade (with Lee RIders that were supposedly Sanforized but weren't); and I normally soak and have always been happy with the results.

I don't see any reason at all to be dogmatic either way; airfrog's jeans look great, for me the main criterion is the sizing, as I don't like them too baggy. My current SDAs I soaked and starched and that gave a terrific result. WE have seen so many jeans on here, and other threads, that have so many different approaches, showing there are many different routes to denim nirvana.

The one thing I would say is not subjective, or personal, is the effect of putting your jeans in a dryer. According to Cone, this strips out the last vestiges of starches and other resins, which will take the indigo alongswith them, so you will lose more of that inky darkness in the non-worn parts of your jeans.

I've seen several of your pairs and Erk which look fantastic. I seem to have better luck wear'n em raw. I can't understand why that upsets so many people.

I agree and would avoid the dryer at all costs if you want a real contrasty jean.

[airfrogusmc]

Check out these ORIGINAL 1937-41 Levis 201 -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472782756&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Awesome !

.

Man those are SWEEET. Check the buckle. To bad LVC can't reproduce that in anything other than the cheap, pressed metal, fragile stuff they've used in the past.

[erk]

I've seen several of your pairs and Erk which look fantastic. I seem to have better luck wear'n em raw. I can't understand why that upsets so many people.

I agree and would avoid the dryer at all costs if you want a real contrasty jean.

it doesn't upset me that YOU do it, I'm just trying to look out for people who are new to LVC. If you've found that it works better for you, that's fine. but some people may go about trying it not knowing the repercussions and end up being dissatisfied with their LVC experience.

[airfrogusmc]

it doesn't upset me that YOU do it, I'm just trying to look out for people who are new to LVC. If you've found that it works better for you, that's fine. but some people may go about trying it not knowing the repercussions and end up being dissatisfied with their LVC experience.

But I'm not the only one that wears'm raw and gets great results in fact Levis even recommends waiting. The problem I have is you seem to be saying theres something wrong with not soaking and thats just not true. Soak if you want but to the new guys out there you will get great fades and killer jeans if you don't soak.

[erk]

But I'm not the only one that wears'm raw and gets great results in fact Levis even recommends waiting. The problem I have is you seem to be saying theres something wrong with not soaking and thats just not true. Soak if you want but to the new guys out there you will get great fades and killer jeans if you don't soak.

thats just the thing, Levi's doesn't recommend not SOAKING. the pamplet tag thing that came with mine (which I hold in my hand right now) suggested a 10 minute soak in the tub with you in the jeans - wearing til dry and to "delay washing your new jeans or jacket for as long as possible."

[jake431]

But I'm not the only one that wears'm raw and gets great results in fact Levis even recommends waiting. The problem I have is you seem to be saying theres something wrong with not soaking and thats just not true. Soak if you want but to the new guys out there you will get great fades and killer jeans if you don't soak.

There's nothing wrong with not soaking. I just don't like how they fit if I don't soak. As far as what Levis says - I've never gotten the shrinkage they've said to expect on ANY pair of jeans, LVC or otherwise STF that I've purchased from them. And, as I've already mentioned, I bake the friggin things in the dryer, too. If a new guy out there is patient, and can wear ill fitting jeans for a few months, then not soaking is a totally good way to go. I myself, cannot. That's all.

[airfrogusmc]

There's nothing wrong with not soaking. I just don't like how they fit if I don't soak. As far as what Levis says - I've never gotten the shrinkage they've said to expect on ANY pair of jeans, LVC or otherwise STF that I've purchased from them. And, as I've already mentioned, I bake the friggin things in the dryer, too. If a new guy out there is patient, and can wear ill fitting jeans for a few months, then not soaking is a totally good way to go. I myself, cannot. That's all.

To each there own and LVC shrinkage seem to very close for me everywhere except the waist shrink I don't think they take stretching back some into account. I usually loose 3-4 inches in length but I've found that to vary some depending on the fabric. I had a good 4 rolls on both my 47s and 55s and they are now both full shrunk and are just about perfect in length now so probably a good 3 inches maybe close to 4.

[airfrogusmc]

thats just the thing, Levi's doesn't recommend not SOAKING. the pamplet tag thing that came with mine (which I hold in my hand right now) suggested a 10 minute soak in the tub with you in the jeans - wearing til dry and to "delay washing your new jeans or jacket for as long as possible."

That was for the first soak and it said earlier wait as long as you can before the first soak.

I'm quoting directly from the booklet from 2003

"Delay washing you new jeans or jean jacket for as long as possible."

[blm14]

Hrm - Ok I'm gonna weigh in on this non-washing issue.

I think it probably works better if you're really short. I happen to be over 6 feet tall, and the difference between a raw pair of jeans and a one-wash pair can mean the difference between no cuff at all or a four-inch one. I almost never hem my raw denim because even at 36" inseams post initial soak they're not super super long on me.

The result of this is that if I were to wear them totally raw for a significant amount of time, the honeycombs would end up somewhere mid-thigh when I finally do get around to washing them.

I also don't buy this whole thing about it being necessary to wash 5 or more times to get all the shrinkage out. In my experience, even the 555 LVCs pretty much shrink as much as they're going to on the initial (granted, hot) soak.

One real machine wash, even on gentle cycle and cold water and no detergent, is enough to get all the real shrinkage out of any of the raw jeans that I own. The only exception to that are samurais (speaking here of VX and AI-10SP) which seem to shrink exactly the same amount each time I wash them (after the initial shrinkage) and then stretch back out to the same fit.

[partytaco]

they shrink approx. 10% in the total length from yoke to the hem so it's not going to cause your "honeycombs" to be pushed up +3"s to your mid thigh.

The result of this is that if I were to wear them totally raw for a significant amount of time, the honeycombs would end up somewhere mid-thigh when I finally do get around to washing them.

[ChuckO]

There's nothing wrong with not soaking. I just don't like how they fit if I don't soak. As far as what Levis says - I've never gotten the shrinkage they've said to expect on ANY pair of jeans, LVC or otherwise STF that I've purchased from them. And, as I've already mentioned, I bake the friggin things in the dryer, too. If a new guy out there is patient, and can wear ill fitting jeans for a few months, then not soaking is a totally good way to go. I myself, cannot. That's all.

Jake, Do you get those weird crinkly, vertical fades from drying or do you have a method for avoiding them?

[Doug C]

Does the grass just seem greener on the other side? (changing the subject a little).... It's my understanding that LVCjapan has begun using cone mill denim on their products. I assume that's for authenticity sake (not to mention that they offer a fine XX product). But up until recently there seemed to be the general concensous that the japanese denim was superior. Maybe it was just the details that were better regarding the japanese LVC but I thought the denim was also considered a step up from the US/EU models. Now especially since the introduction of the 1915s which tout a colaberation with Cone Mills, it seems that japanes denim greatness has tumbled a bit. I myself can't wait to get my own 1915s but I'm just asking is there a real change in the quality of the cone xx denim and what is it that makes it so?

[partytaco]

LVC Europe,Japan and USA will be aligned under the XX line based out of Amsterdam so look for an end to all the regional variations in product.

And if whats left (nothing) of LVC Japan starts using Cone denim why does that make the denim coming out of Japan inferior? Both the USA and Japan produce many different qualities of denim and a lot of factors play into what a brand chooses, highest quality isn't always one of them.

Does the grass just seem greener on the other side? (changing the subject a little).... It's my understanding that LVCjapan has begun using cone mill denim on their products. I assume that's for authenticity sake (not to mention that they offer a fine XX product). But up until recently there seemed to be the general concensous that the japanese denim was superior. Maybe it was just the details that were better regarding the japanese LVC but I thought the denim was also considered a step up from the US/EU models. Now especially since the introduction of the 1915s which tout a colaberation with Cone Mills, it seems that japanes denim greatness has tumbled a bit. I myself can't wait to get my own 1915s but I'm just asking is there a real change in the quality of the cone xx denim and what is it that makes it so?

[Doug C]

I can not easily find the seperate posts, but I'm pretty sure that it was announced that LVCjp was going to start using cone exclusively BEFORE the announcement about the Amsterdam XX conncection was made. So I was wondering why they'd do that besides authenticity, not that auth isn't enough. BTW I did not say and do not believe the japanese denim is inferior (you may want to reread my post) I'm just saying that a lot of US and Euro customers seem to favor the LVCjp products over the others and now it seems that LVCjp has decided our cone mills denim is a better choice.... the reason for my "the grass is always greener on the other side" comment. If it's just that the line is being streamlined then that makes since to me.

[crownzip]

Couldn't agree with Partytaco more. Just because denim comes from Cone Mills doesn't make it superior or any more authentic. If anyone has visited Cone Mills offices and seen the different types of denim they manufacture you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Doug C]

Couldn't agree with Partytaco more. Just because denim comes from Cone Mills doesn't make it superior or any more authentic. If anyone has visited Cone Mills offices and seen the different types of denim they manufacture you'll know what I'm talking about.

Once Again, didn't say one was superior or inferior. Besides his statement was opposite of what you just said. Anyway, as you said that "Just because denim comes from Cone Mills doesn't make it superior or any more authentic." - I have to point out that it could be considered more "authentic" in that it's made by the same company that supplied denim for levis almost 100 years ago and is what I was referring to. I'm starting to regret I brought this up.

[Doug C]

Thanks for the info! Recently I have been wearing the 1967 505s and I want to get another pair of LVC but a cut that is very different than this pair - I am thinking the 1933 501 would def add some variety to my otherwise slimmer fitting jean selection...

Hey runormal, I just found a post by procheck that lists the LVC S/S 2010 as includeing a 1933 model 501 so I'm not really sure what cultizm is meaning by the statement on their website about it no longer being available to collectors. They say cultizm is good about answering emails and I'd suggest you try that, though I've never had much luck in getting them to answer my emails.

quote:

originally posted by Shorty Long Any word on the upcoming Spring collection? I mean, anything new from what we heard this past summer?

S/S 2010: Ozarks

"the purist" selection:

- 501: 1890, 1901, 1915, 1933, 1944, 1947, 1954, 1955(!), 1966

- 505

- Duck: jacket + 1873 pant

- Bib

- Jacket: Type 1 & 3 (shrink to fit)

- t-shirts: 30-50´s

- sunset shirts

Sneakpeak: mindenim.blogspot.com/2009/11/lvc-ss10-ozarks.html

[airfrogusmc]

Hrm - Ok I'm gonna weigh in on this non-washing issue.

I think it probably works better if you're really short. I happen to be over 6 feet tall, and the difference between a raw pair of jeans and a one-wash pair can mean the difference between no cuff at all or a four-inch one. I almost never hem my raw denim because even at 36" inseams post initial soak they're not super super long on me.

The result of this is that if I were to wear them totally raw for a significant amount of time, the honeycombs would end up somewhere mid-thigh when I finally do get around to washing them.

I also don't buy this whole thing about it being necessary to wash 5 or more times to get all the shrinkage out. In my experience, even the 555 LVCs pretty much shrink as much as they're going to on the initial (granted, hot) soak.

One real machine wash, even on gentle cycle and cold water and no detergent, is enough to get all the real shrinkage out of any of the raw jeans that I own. The only exception to that are samurais (speaking here of VX and AI-10SP) which seem to shrink exactly the same amount each time I wash them (after the initial shrinkage) and then stretch back out to the same fit.

I'm 6'2"......

[airfrogusmc]

they shrink approx. 10% in the total length from yoke to the hem so it's not going to cause your "honeycombs" to be pushed up +3"s to your mid thigh.

Thats not whats happened with mine.

[jake431]

Jake, Do you get those weird crinkly, vertical fades from drying or do you have a method for avoiding them?

If I dry them inside out, by themselves, I am usually okay. I watch them pretty intently, and pull them out when they're are still a little damp. I don't want to set creases with the dryer.

[ChuckO]

Anybody else have a front load washing machine? I thought everyone had them now but I never see them mentioned here. I've had one since I got my '47's and the front loaders seem really good with jeans. One of the best things about them is your jeans come out wet but not soaking so you can throw them on right out of the wash.

[Paul T]

Does the grass just seem greener on the other side? (changing the subject a little).... It's my understanding that LVCjapan has begun using cone mill denim on their products...up until recently there seemed to be the general concensous that the japanese denim was superior. Maybe it was just the details that were better regarding the japanese LVC but I thought the denim was also considered a step up from the US/EU models.

I think the move is more about heritage.

MAny of the COne fabrics are very close indeed to the original fabric - as it should be, as they made it and still have notes on how every machine is set up, how the yarn was spun etc etc. But the Japanese companies have money to invest that Cone don't; for instance, the Japanese 50s reissues used a special sanforized fabric from Kaihara for the washed jeans, with leg twist programmed in, so that when the jeans were distressed the wear patterns wouldn't move once washed.

THe other element is, of course, price points; the basic Cone fabric is fantastic value - Andy W and others on here really rate it, but the more specialised lines, like the Black Seed (which uses a descendant of Sea Island cotton) are very expensive.

I don't think there's any suggestion that Japanese fabric has dropped in quality; the best denim, like that Warehouse use, is just as good quality [of not better, and is definitely more consistent - and of course, their better fabric is mroe expensive than the basic COne ones.

From what I can tell, I think the decision to stick wiht Cone is very much an emotional one; they see Cone as intertwined with their own destiny, and an intrinsic part of Levi's heritage. I wonder also if they're giving them more selvage volume so that the huge company who own COne, don't suddently decide that the old looms aren't economical.

[Shorty Long]

Especially with LVC, Levi is selling the idea of heritage. The marketing is based on the idea that they're reproducing (as closely as possible) products from a bygone age. It only makes sense (and cents) that they use Cone. I'm guessing you'll hear more and more about them using Cone in their promotional material (they've always done it to a certain extent, but I expect it to be even more apparent in the future...you got a taste of it with the recent 1915s). They did the same thing when they were still producing LVC at the Valencia St. factory (*sob*).

I have to admit, I'm a sucker for this marketing approach.

I think the move is more about heritage.

MAny of the COne fabrics are very close indeed to the original fabric - as it should be, as they made it and still have notes on how every machine is set up, how the yarn was spun etc etc. But the Japanese companies have money to invest that Cone don't; for instance, the Japanese 50s reissues used a special sanforized fabric from Kaihara for the washed jeans, with leg twist programmed in, so that when the jeans were distressed the wear patterns wouldn't move once washed.

THe other element is, of course, price points; the basic Cone fabric is fantastic value - Andy W and others on here really rate it, but the more specialised lines, like the Black Seed (which uses a descendant of Sea Island cotton) are very expensive.

I don't think there's any suggestion that Japanese fabric has dropped in quality; the best denim, like that Warehouse use, is just as good quality [of not better, and is definitely more consistent - and of course, their better fabric is mroe expensive than the basic COne ones.

From what I can tell, I think the decision to stick wiht Cone is very much an emotional one; they see Cone as intertwined with their own destiny, and an intrinsic part of Levi's heritage. I wonder also if they're giving them more selvage volume so that the huge company who own COne, don't suddently decide that the old looms aren't economical.

[ChuckO]

A little off topic but since we're talking about Japanese denim. Do Warehouse produce their own denim or are they also purchasing off of a supplier or is it a combo where the Japanese companies work with suppliers to personalize the product for differentiation?

[Paul T]

There is an intriguing philosophical question here.

Which product embodies an old jean better - one made by the original company, with denim made by the original supplier, which is inconsistent like the original, with mistakes like the original made to a price? (I can't remember specifically, but I wonder if they only give us hand-hammered rivets on some modesl due to budgetary reasons).

Or a hand-made replica produced in Japan, with even the tiniest details correct?

Personally, one thing I'd like to see more of on this thread is good worn-in examples of some of the better Warehouse and SC replicas.

[Paul T]

A little off topic but since we're talking about Japanese denim. Do Warehouse produce their own denim or are they also purchasing off of a supplier or is it a combo where the Japanese companies work with suppliers to personalize the product for differentiation?

The latter mainly, just like Levi's, they will have their own favoured suppliers and in many cases work closely with them to either develop denim from scratch or else modify an existing design.

I keep meaning to ask who supplies Warehouse denim. A lot of Sugarcane comes from Menpu (we hardly ever talk about them, but they have an absolutely amazing range of denim). Evisu have traditionally used both Kurabo, for STF and Kaihara for Sanforized; Edwin use Kaihara and Nisshinbo.