Urban Techwear

[Dolphinski]

Anyone got the Hollowcore Metal items from the SI Shadow Project? How is the material?

I never seen it in person but I would love to buy this blazer (black or green)...

 

 

Strangely enough I was in SI London yesterday looking at that very blazer (the green one). As you'd expect from Si, the material feels very unique and looks a lot more shiny and 'crinkly' IRL than the picture you posted. It was actually thinner and lighter than i was expecting as well but still felt very robust. 

 

Is there no way you can order from SI and send back if you don't like it?

[Te@M_M@t3]

You might have a look here : http://www.pyrenex.com/en/sport-46.html

Thanks, for the website. There's a jacket, or two, I really like.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Te@M_M@t3

[shieldsy]

Hey guys, anyone here have experience with SISP slip-ons, esp. the ones from this season?

 

Ive heard from a couple of sources (friend, Haven) that you should size down.  And I've heard from others (friends) you go TTS.

 

I don't really have an opportunity to try them on, so wanted some feedback.  

[sp@rks]

http://store.nike.com/gb/en_gb/pd/sfb-field-15cm-boot/pid-10259802/pgid-10259368

[SuE]

Hey guys, anyone here have experience with SISP slip-ons, esp. the ones from this season?

 

Ive heard from a couple of sources (friend, Haven) that you should size down.  And I've heard from others (friends) you go TTS.

 

I don't really have an opportunity to try them on, so wanted some feedback.

I checked out this season's slipons, wearing outlier socks iirc, and found them TTS

[shieldsy]

I checked out this season's slipons, wearing outlier socks iirc, and found them TTS

Thanks man, much appreciated!

[unmen]

Can someone recognise this?

 

[fals3]

http://store.nike.com/gb/en_gb/pd/sfb-field-15cm-boot/pid-10259802/pgid-10259368

 

God, those are ugly.  I just ordered the first generation 8 inch SFB for summer.  I've always thought the first gen sole made them look like combat boots from the future + my feet are all fucked up from wearing dress shoes / flat insole shoes and I need to start wearing sneakers.  Will post a review once I get them.  

[justinrr]

What socks do you guys wear in the summer?  Outlier merino is fine and good until I start seriously sweating - it would be nice to have some short, light socks as well.

[bento]

What socks do you guys wear in the summer?  Outlier merino is fine and good until I start seriously sweating - it would be nice to have some short, light socks as well.

Pearl Izumi merino socks: http://shop.pearlizumi.com/shop.php?&pc_id=363&mode=products

[piece keeper]

What socks do you guys wear in the summer?  Outlier merino is fine and good until I start seriously sweating - it would be nice to have some short, light socks as well.

 

Check out Darn Tough socks.

[Inkinsurgent]

http://store.nike.com/gb/en_gb/pd/sfb-field-15cm-boot/pid-10259802/pgid-10259368

 

 

what a waste. matte nubuck instead of that hideous patent leather and no silly aqua and these would've been amazing.

[nocturnalworkshop]

 

I'd like to chime in here. I only recently got introduced to Nocturnal Workshop, and I'm most interested in the backpacks.

 

First of all, what Endless said about pictures of the insides of the backpack is absolutely right. That's the biggest thing stopping me from seriously considering a purchase - since I can't pick up a bag and examine it in the store, I really have to be able to see what's on the inside, what sort of pocket the N.3 front zipper opens into, etc.

 

 

But furthermore:

 

 

Your products are really photogenic, which makes me think they're high quality. But they are competing in a really difficult space, since you seem to be targeting both:

+ the athletic/cycle set, while trying to convince them to go for a fashion forward bag

+ the fashion forward set, and trying to sell them on athleticism

 

But to speak truthfully, I don't really feel that your brand story is quite there yet for either case. There's not enough content to deliver either story effectively, so it feels like mixed messaging; your video is selling the "athletic" story, but your product descriptions are selling the "fashion" story. 

 

Endless mentioned how the hype machine for other brands simply command attention. I think he's coming from the fashion perspective which is why he brings up IISE and Cote&Ciel, both of which have expansive product lines that show their niches well. On the athletic front, I would say your direct competition are more functional/technical (and less pricey) bags that match the traditional cycle aesthetic, such as Blaqpak's Kagero or stuff by Mission Workshop. 

 

So far you haven't satisfied either direction fully. I would take a hard look at how athletically-oriented, serious fashion brands like ISAORA or Mission Workshop have attacked the space. (Edit of importance: those guys do a LOT of content marketing.)

 

Best of luck. I'll be back when I can see pictures of the inside of that N.3...

 

 

 

@nocturnalworkshop Sorry for my late response, I was in the middle of writing a rather long post but one of my chrome extensions forced me to reload the page and now I have to rewrite the entire thing Anyways, it's fun seeing you guys being active on here, and before I say anything else I want everyone to remember that all of my opinions are based on my impressions after browsing your webshop, and that I haven't been able to have a look at anything in a physical store. (But I assume this means that I'm able to represent the majority of your potential customers)

 

 

Okey, so maybe "Overpriced" was the wrong term to use, since I don't know anything about your production and development costs. However, I feel that most of the products I was interested in, the sweatshirts, backpacks and running tights (which I thought were unisex?), are too expensive compared to the aggressive pricing of your competition. The crewneck costs more than your standard APC sweat and about the same as a Stone Island crew in my local stores. 

 

For the backpacks, they're all essentially modernized versions of the classic daypack, the most expensive version though is priced so that it directly competes with the $360 IISE Daypack 2, which is IMO the best daypack money can buy. Also, in general, all of your bags are competing with those from Cote-et-Ciel, which are priced similarly and known for their great quality and innovative design.

 

And finally, the running tights. I'm currently looking to either pick up a pair of used/deadstocked Gyakusou running tights, which usually retail at $120 or wait for Gyakusou FW15 since I won't be needing them until fall now when summer is just around the corner. At $105 + shipping, the price difference isn't big enough to make me go for yours instead, which could've otherwise been a great alternative. I find it weird that they're just sized for women though, weren't the guy running at the track wearing them in the video? Also, tights + shorts is becoming fairly popular among guys now (within certain scenes that is). 

 

Overall I just feel that there are a lot of other brands with similar or more interesting aesthetics but with more hype behind them (read Y3 as an example), that demand all of my attention (and all the cash in my wallet). And at a similar pricing but with less hype I can't really find myself justifying a purchase. Maybe this is just me though, I'm just a broke student, buying what I need and saving the rest for Acronym shells, but I think a lot of fans of the technical sportswear aesthetic would share my opinion.

 

If you have any other questions, fell free to reply or message me / E 

 

 

 

Ninja Edit: Also, I forgot to mention this, but you REALLY need more pictures of the products on your site, especially of the insides of the backpacks. After reading the, rather short, product descriptions you seem to have spend some effort on the insides of the backpacks, which is always appreciated. If you wanted to use this as a selling point though, you need some pictures to show it off.

This is all great info, thanks so much for the feedback @Endless and @donburi. I really appreciate you taking the time to articulate constructive responses that actually will help us make our company better!

 

What I am wondering, is there a way to split the focus between the tech and the fashion of things? I mean, that was part of the niche we initially jumped into in that a friend of ours was hit by a car while riding at night and he said that he would never wear something just to keep him visible, it would have to fit within his fashionable wardrobe. For a company like Stone Island, would you say they are more focused on marketing the tech, although they satisfy the fashion aesthetics to consumers?

 

So far we have tried to walk the line between tech and fashion, not really trying to fit in just one category but I do understand it may send a mixed message to consumers. Long term, we are definitely looking at being seen as more of a fashion brand, as future releases will include more leather and customized materials.

 

Noted about the photos, we will plan to shoot interiors and some more detailed shots in our next shoot.

 

What do you think drives the hype behind a brand the most? We are starting to reach out to more influencers to collaborate on photoshoots, and like our collaboration with the lab, we are constantly seeking other companies to work with. 

 

In regards to the lab collaboration, the pricing was set due to materials cost as well as the limited run of production set. All of the SKUS were limited to between 40 and 70 pieces, which for production is a bit of a nightmare. A sewer usually gets 100 units just to practice on getting fast at, and then jumps into a higher pace to bring the average labor cost down after 200 units or higher.

 

Do you think the consumers really care about the origin of an item? Making it in Canada allows us to have a higher degree of customizability and control over the end product, but also drives up the manufacturing cost not having new machines and automated processes like those in manufacture-heavy countries.

 

Would love to get some more feedback on this! Thanks.

 

PS, the IISE guys are really great, I used to email back and forth with them when we were both starting out.

[piece keeper]

This is all great info, thanks so much for the feedback @Endless and @donburi. I really appreciate you taking the time to articulate constructive responses that actually will help us make our company better!

 

What I am wondering, is there a way to split the focus between the tech and the fashion of things? I mean, that was part of the niche we initially jumped into in that a friend of ours was hit by a car while riding at night and he said that he would never wear something just to keep him visible, it would have to fit within his fashionable wardrobe. For a company like Stone Island, would you say they are more focused on marketing the tech, although they satisfy the fashion aesthetics to consumers?

 

So far we have tried to walk the line between tech and fashion, not really trying to fit in just one category but I do understand it may send a mixed message to consumers. Long term, we are definitely looking at being seen as more of a fashion brand, as future releases will include more leather and customized materials.

 

Noted about the photos, we will plan to shoot interiors and some more detailed shots in our next shoot.

I'd like to offer some thoughts, if you don't mind. I think @donburi hit the nail on the head re: story/branding. The fashion/athletic styles are usually at odds, but definitely converging more and more, but I think the more successful companies to tackle the two in a complementary way have leaned more heavily towards one than the other. Because of the athletic-focused video alongside the fashion-focused product pages, it seems like you give equal weight to both instead of placing more emphasis on one (e.g. to use your example, when I think Stone Island I think fashion first, not tech). It sounds like you want to lean to the fashion side, so I would say make that a little more evident and put athleticism in the background. Similar companies that come to mind are:

+ Outlier: fashionable clothing, that just so happens to allow freedom-of-movement, making it suitable for activity

+ Nike x Gyakusou: athletic clothing, that just so happens to look great, making it fashionable

+ Arcteryx Veilance: fashionable clothing, that just so happens to incorporate technology, making it good for the elements

 

(I'm over-simplifying here, because obviously these brands do place a heavy emphasis on both, but branding/marketing-wise they put one of these in front of the other)

 

So I think if you focus on one and pay tribute to the other, you can have a more cohesive brand than if you tried to play up both.  Jack of all trades is the master of none, as they say!

 

What do you think drives the hype behind a brand the most? We are starting to reach out to more influencers to collaborate on photoshoots, and like our collaboration with the lab, we are constantly seeking other companies to work with.

I don't know about what drives the most hype, but I do think sufu is a great place to organically grow that. All it takes is one nice WAYWT fit with it to get people talking and buying. Getting featured on Hypebeast would probably also do it. What does it for me is kind of the mystery behind something, too. If I see something cool on a blog or IG I follow that I haven't seen before, that piques my interest and usually I'll start my research/hunt--maybe others are the same?

 

In regards to the lab collaboration, the pricing was set due to materials cost as well as the limited run of production set. All of the SKUS were limited to between 40 and 70 pieces, which for production is a bit of a nightmare. A sewer usually gets 100 units just to practice on getting fast at, and then jumps into a higher pace to bring the average labor cost down after 200 units or higher.

Do you think the consumers really care about the origin of an item? Making it in Canada allows us to have a higher degree of customizability and control over the end product, but also drives up the manufacturing cost not having new machines and automated processes like those in manufacture-heavy countries.

 

Would love to get some more feedback on this! Thanks.

 

PS, the IISE guys are really great, I used to email back and forth with them when we were both starting out.

Definitely hear you on the pricing/production, and that's always tough. I do think it's good to educate people on that (e.g. "Limited run of 70" on the product page), and if you're appealing to a more informed crowd like sufu, I think they will understand that and that will help them justify the price. On top of that, if you make it in Canada, say that too (especially if you're going for the fashion/luxe message, I think origin matters a little more in terms of first impressions).  I was quite interested in the Last Call Crewneck but was turned off by the price because the page doesn't really say anything of note. But is it made by CYC, the same manufacturers as Reigning Champ, W+H, and others? If it is, that's important to know! Even if it's not by CYC, at least knowing it's from Canada instead of Vietnam/China helps. This might not be true for a large part of the market, but if your target niche is the sufu-type crowd, I think we/they are definitely more discerning when it comes to that.

 

P.S.

Sorry to hear about your friend.  Cycling is my main form of commuting, so this is something I worry about.  Check out ICNY--they've done some pretty cool stuff with 3M for visibility at night.  But at the end of the day, I think bike lights are more effective and it's not something you "wear", so that's a great option.

Edited May 21, 2015 by piece keeper

[donburi]

Such great comments above by @piece keeper.

 

The fashion/athletic styles are usually at odds, but definitely converging more and more, but I think the more successful companies to tackle the two in a complementary way have leaned more heavily towards one than the other.

 

It really feels like one of the major trends of the last few years has been precisely this convergence. But unlike design trends in other industries, the convergence hasn't led to an amalgamated, unified style, but many diversified approaches. A positive outcome of this is that it gives a company like @nocturnalworkshop a lot of room to develop your own unique vision. @piece gave a great overview of a few brands above, but like he said, a deeper exploration can extract a much better understanding of each company's formula.

 

 

What do you think drives the hype behind a brand the most? We are starting to reach out to more influencers to collaborate on photoshoots, and like our collaboration with the lab, we are constantly seeking other companies to work with. 

 

@piece has a good point about using publications and communities like Hypebeast and sufu to grow the awareness of your company, but in my experience, the most crucial thing is the execution of the brand itself.

 

Successful brands have a strong vision, and each interaction they have with their customers and potential customers reinforces that vision. All the content you produce - photography, lookbooks, videos, blog posts, and product descriptions - down to the sentence - must support a consistent image. I believe that it's this brand mystique / "je ne sais quoi" that drives interest and hype, and if you have that, organic growth like what @piece mentioned will come naturally.

 

Outlier is a great example of a company that really understands its own vision and knows how to talk about itself. From Outlier's info page, appropriately titled "Our Philosophy":

 

 

We want to build the future of clothing.
 

 

That single statement is the beginning of Outlier's brand. If you take some time to explore their website and use their products, you'll find that nearly everything they say and do carries this essence.

 

 

~

 

 

So far, all of your goods, including the new collaboration, have maintained a consistent look and feel. Although I haven't handled one yet, assuming the build quality is good, I would say all the right pieces are there for you to build a really successful brand image. Especially with your fantastic name. You just need to find and establish a good balance between athleticism and fashion. If your vision, voice and tone, and content are cohesive, you'll end up with a strong, desirable brand that will seep into and help direct future product lines.

Edited May 23, 2015 by donburi

[jilla82]

are there any shorts similar to Outliers (something you can swim and walk around in)? 

 

I would get theirs...but they are out of the longs I want.

[scamster]

have a butcher at aether and orlebar brown.

 

have a pair of the aether button swim recommend them, smart enough to walk around in but good for a swim and dries really quickly. even though haven't got any orlebar shorts have a few other items of theirs and the quality is definitely up there.

[WillKhitie]

I'm just going to chime in on the Nocturnal Workshop discussion, primarily because I just like these type of brain jogs. Let's just start with your identity/ vision as this is will dictate everything else that'll follow. 

 

Note: I also think this precedes the need for you to address anything else. (i.e. Most of the time, no amount of PR/"hype" will help you if what you are and what you're communicating isn't clear.)  

 

Problem

 

Previous comments state finding the balance between fashion and function. Eight out of ten times, this kind of compromise/pandering to a greater market (esp. at an early stage) fails all the time–specially for companies that operate at your scale and size. 

 

Why?

 

I glanced through the website and the previous discussions here and everything about the brand, as of this moment, is limited. On the surface that applies to production sizes to product lines, and behind the scenes that applies to budgets (marketing, advertising, production). 

 

Given that, it is basically counter intuitive to aim towards large audience because you don't have the resources to do it. (Or do it very well, and why bother then if that's the case.)

 

Solution

 

Since you do not have the luxury to pander, what I advise you to do, instead of flail in the grey, is focus. Focus your resources, focus your product, and focus on who you are–you are a niche brand, with niche market appeal, selling a niche product. 

 

1. Instead of apparel, why not focus fully on developing your bags further (perhaps re-think your design, revise, reiterate, improve, etc.)

 

2. Instead of doing fashion, why not focus fully on technical (or vice versa).

 

3. Instead of doing customizations, which is the key symptom of a "brand identity disorder", why not focus on making your aesthetic more distinct.

 

People (i.e. the select few that find you) don't buy lukewarm at your scale, specially at your price point. What they will buy is something remarkable. Why not be that instead?

 

The world doesn't need anymore rare hemline tees/black sweatpants/"technical" sweatshirts, even if they are made in Canada, but a well designed technical bag offering something unique (at a great price point)? I see that question posted up every other week.

Edited May 25, 2015 by WillKhitie

[Inkinsurgent]

 

 

The world doesn't need anymore rare hemline tees/black sweatpants/"technical" sweatshirts

[jilla82]

have a butcher at aether and orlebar brown.

 

have a pair of the aether button swim recommend them, smart enough to walk around in but good for a swim and dries really quickly. even though haven't got any orlebar shorts have a few other items of theirs and the quality is definitely up there.

Sweet...those aether shorts look nice.

Is there a drawstring inside the shorts?

[nocturnalworkshop]

I'm just going to chime in on the Nocturnal Workshop discussion, primarily because I just like these type of brain jogs. Let's just start with your identity/ vision as this is will dictate everything else that'll follow. 

 

Note: I also think this precedes the need for you to address anything else. (i.e. Most of the time, no amount of PR/"hype" will help you if what you are and what you're communicating isn't clear.)  

 

Problem

 

Previous comments state finding the balance between fashion and function. Eight out of ten times, this kind of compromise/pandering to a greater market (esp. at an early stage) fails all the time–specially for companies that operate at your scale and size. 

 

Why?

 

I glanced through the website and the previous discussions here and everything about the brand, as of this moment, is limited. On the surface that applies to production sizes to product lines, and behind the scenes that applies to budgets (marketing, advertising, production). 

 

Given that, it is basically counter intuitive to aim towards large audience because you don't have the resources to do it. (Or do it very well, and why bother then if that's the case.)

 

Solution

 

Since you do not have the luxury to pander, what I advise you to do, instead of flail in the grey, is focus. Focus your resources, focus your product, and focus on who you are–you are a niche brand, with niche market appeal, selling a niche product. 

 

1. Instead of apparel, why not focus fully on developing your bags further (perhaps re-think your design, revise, reiterate, improve, etc.)

 

2. Instead of doing fashion, why not focus fully on technical (or vice versa).

 

3. Instead of doing customizations, which is the key symptom of a "brand identity disorder", why not focus on making your aesthetic more distinct.

 

People (i.e. the select few that find you) don't buy lukewarm at your scale, specially at your price point. What they will buy is something remarkable. Why not be that instead?

 

The world doesn't need anymore rare hemline tees/black sweatpants/"technical" sweatshirts, even if they are made in Canada, but a well designed technical bag offering something unique (at a great price point)? I see that question posted up every other week.

Thanks so much for the feedback @WillKhitie! 

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. There are definitely points that may be a bit misconstrued though.

 

In terms of the clothing, we are not planning to produce any clothing for the near and mid future. The reason we made clothing was only due to the collaboration we had with lululemon lab. And I will be honest, it really helped save the business in that we generated a lot of sales and exposure in a short period of time; hell I wouldn't have found these forums if it weren't for the collaboration.

 

I too agree that we need to delve fully into either fashion or function, but not stress on the blend of the two. Within our team, we personally prefer the aesthetic of focusing on a solely fashion based product. Why the "function" side scares us away a bit is due more to the lack of resources we have in regards to fabric sourcing and access to high tech machinery.

 

In terms of costing, the only way we can make a product cheaper at this point is outsource where we produce to China or Portugal, or somewhere that has commercial manufacturing set up. In any event, we need to work on getting our numbers up a little bit more before we make the switch.

 

What about our aesthetic do you think is distinct versus what needs work? Most of our shapes currently are quite minimalistic in nature, and the pairing of laminated zippers and leather I feel is memorable.

 

I will tell you that for Fall / Winter 2015 we are introducing a new silhouette, more fabric options that will create a more varied price point as well as 2 new seasonal colors. There are updates to all of our current bags that make them more streamlined, more usable and more minimalistic (the key feature being all exposed zippers across all silhouettes).

 

I would love to continually hear feedback, and will start to post sneak peeks directly to the community for review and critique. I feel like this is such a great network of individuals who have a better understanding of tech fashion and are truly interested in giving input. 

 

Thanks!

[Sammy You]

Making shit with 3m/reflective is way expensive. thats why you dont even see Nike make that sort of stuff every season. Plus the 3m fabric isnt that great besides its reflectivity.

Its much easier to use other more durable, better feeling, and better performing fabrics to create a product that people would put value in (like porter bags)

 

speaking of reflective. here are some sneakers made out of that bagjack reflective line stuff (sorry i cant provide more details/ had to crop it too)

 

[scamster]

Sweet...those aether shorts look nice.

Is there a drawstring inside the shorts?

 

nope no drawstring, just the button.

[nocturnalworkshop]

Making shit with 3m/reflective is way expensive. thats why you dont even see Nike make that sort of stuff every season. Plus the 3m fabric isnt that great besides its reflectivity.

Its much easier to use other more durable, better feeling, and better performing fabrics to create a product that people would put value in (like porter bags)

 

speaking of reflective. here are some sneakers made out of that bagjack reflective line stuff (sorry i cant provide more details/ had to crop it too)

 

You are correct, it is crazy expensive hahah. We are starting to develop some more customized and inconspicuous fabric solutions with the reflective still integrated but it is slow goings since we are such a small player for these weavers to deal with.

[donburi]

That sort of inconspicuous fabric solution could be really nice. One thing I noticed when I handled the N.4 was the reflective bit simply didn't have the same nice handfeel as the rest of the product. Integrating the reflective material into the fabric itself instead might help a lot.

 

Really interested to see how this plays out as you come out with products that are composed more of leather. It only takes a quick browse around sufu, especially this thread, to prove that there's a place for leather items in the techwear aesthetic. I think the single exposed and laminated zipper is pretty cool. It looks especially badass on the N.3

Edited May 28, 2015 by donburi

[bento]

Any feedback on the Carinthia gears ?

 

http://www.carinthia.eu/?gclid=CMDxqpml5MUCFc_HtAodlBcA4g

[Brainboy]

Looks pretty bad.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Brainboy

[brooks_]

Anyone got anything from Cold Smoke Co.? Some of it is kinda eh, but a lot of the outerwear looks good. Kind of a mix of some Veilance vibes and some heritage vibes. 

[brooks_]

are there any shorts similar to Outliers (something you can swim and walk around in)? 

 

I would get theirs...but they are out of the longs I want.

 

I haven't worn them myself, but before the New Ways came back out I was considering a pair from Onia:

 

https://onia.com/catalog/product/view/id/2195/s/calder-trunk-10-black/category/225/

[Brainboy]

Anyone got anything from Cold Smoke Co.? Some of it is kinda eh, but a lot of the outerwear looks good. Kind of a mix of some Veilance vibes and some heritage vibes. 

More like Veilance rip-offs. F. 'em.