Belts

[davichan]

This is a great forum!,

love being able to put a question out there, and folks actually take the time to give their opinion and knowledge on the matter,

much respect and thank you guys for the words.

the McCoy Horsehide stays in its spot thanks to helping me better understand more characteristics of it.

best!

-davichan

[mikecch]

Hey Mike - He does probably 99.9% in leather. He will order horsehide if you specify it as I did with this belt. I have 4 or 5 of his leather straps and the quality is wonderful. Hope you browsed through all three pages of belt making - he puts a lot into a belt. Fine people and a pleasure to deal with. Not certain about the stitching - I'll ask him early this week.

I will make it reading material for today!

Edit: Just read through all three pages. Interesting approach to belt making for sure - especially the acrylic sealing and polishing processes, kinda bridges between a work belt and a dress belt. Although I still can't figure out the type of bridle leather he is using.

This is a great forum!,

love being able to put a question out there, and folks actually take the time to give their opinion and knowledge on the matter,

much respect and thank you guys for the words.

the McCoy Horsehide stays in its spot thanks to helping me better understand more characteristics of it.

best!

-davichan

Keep wearing and keep us updated too.

Macro-shot of the grain when you have time please

[mikecch]

Hey davidchan

As Mike said, that is just the coating on the flesh side reacting to wear, it's nothing to worry about.

It is possible for deep wrinkles to appear on the grain side of horsehide also though even if that's not what happened in this case. The section of the horse's hide which covered areas of his body which moved, such as the joints, often have these before the hide is processed at the tannery.

Tanneries still sometimes "roll" leather to increase yield which flattens these out, but over time and with wear they tend to reassert themselves. In the old days these sections of hide would not be used for those parts of a garment which were most visible . Nowadays however, some buyers value these 'pebbled" or "jerky" parts of the hide and seek them out as being more characterful.

I think in large part this stems from the flight jacket/ A2 fanbase. So many horsehide A2's were required during WWII that previous quality control standards in terms of which parts of the hide were used where had to be relaxed. As a result a lot of jackets with visible areas of "jerky" hide were produced .Thus some see having some heavily grained panels in prominent areas of a horsehide jacket as being more "authentic" and seek this out.

Whether you like them or not, these wrinkles don't say anything about the quality of the hide or the tanning process. It is true however that "jerky" areas do tend to be the slightly thinner areas of the animal's skin.

OT but possibly interesting ( I hope).

Very true, thanks for pointing this out.

I think this would be a very interesting discussion for this thread, because so far we have not seen much talk about the natural texture of the grain and it's associated 'defects'.

This is perhaps due to the big SuFu brands usually utilising leather that has been heavily processed post-tan (bridle, harness, latigo, etc), whether it be settling, rolling, compression dyeing, etc...

I would like to follow up lostinthesupermarket's post with a photo...

This type of ridging is occurs on belts that are made from double-butt or double shoulder leather, and to a degree back-cuts (think of the wrinkles between your shoulder blades and your natal cleft ), unnoticeable at first but becoming more pronounced with wear.

I absolutely love this 'defect', and I reckon it gives the leather lots of character.

Could also occur on belly cuts, but belly cuts shouldn't really be used for belting.

[Snake]

My Tenjin Works belt has the same ridging as well. It was barely noticeable at first but with some wear, it darkens more than the rest of the belt. I love this character too.

[mikecch]

My Tenjin Works belt has the same ridging as well. It was barely noticeable at first but with some wear, it darkens more than the rest of the belt. I love this character too.

Hey, how would you rate Tenjin's natural leather?

Any pics?

I'm trying to decide between a Tenjin Works or a Calf Japan for my next mobile phone holder... thanks!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I love Tenjin Works leather jackets

[Snake]

I'll post some pics with some close-ups of the grain/texture for you. The belt is very stiff at first and with 8 months of wear, it hasn't soften all that much like my other Japanese belts. I love the leather and I think Tenjin Works sources their leather from Japan.

[mikecch]

I'll post some pics with some close-ups of the grain/texture for you. The belt is very stiff at first and with 8 months of wear, it hasn't soften all that much like my other Japanese belts. I love the leather and I think Tenjin Works sources their leather from Japan.

That'll be great - thanking you in advance kind sir!

If Tenjin Works does indeed use leather native to Japan, then I would grab them instead of Calf Studio's.

Tochigi tannery?

Do the Tenjin dudes accept overseas orders, or would I have to use a proxy?

[Snake]

I ordered from Tenjin Works directly.

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=1845702&postcount=1109

[undcvrsm]

I believe Tenjin uses Tochigi Leather. Read that from a back issue of Lightning. Have to dig out that issue to reconfirm though.

Edit: Here it is

I have ordered a mid wallet and a belt ( ~15oz, 1.75" wide) made out of Tochigi Leather by local Japanese craftsmen. But I don't think I can get them before the year ends.

[mikecch]

^ Thanks Snake and undercvrsm!

I do have a belt made with Tochigi's 15 oz (6 mm) natural double-butt, and use to have a coin-pouch made with their thinner natural leather - the stuff isn't too bad

Looking forward to your pics Snake

[Snake]

OK, some close ups of Tenjin Works belt.

You kinda can see the ridging.

[mikecch]

^ Thank you snake, that colour is lovely!

How thick is it?

[Snake]

The belt is 5mm thick.

This is an old pic. Tenjin Works is on top and Sugar Cane is on the bottom.

According to SC, their belt is 5mm ~ 6mm thick but as you can see, Tenjin Works is thicker.

[mikecch]

^ Yeah, bro!!!!

The Sugar Cane belts actually only measure on average 4.8mm/12oz (I've measured a few using my calliper last year)!

[lenn]

atelier ladurance and iron heart

[mikecch]

^ Cool belts! How thick is that IH one?

[lenn]

thanks! the IH is about 4mm thick, the same as the ALD.

[mikecch]

^ I see.

Thanks for that

[MikeS]

I use the horse oil to feed the leather and make it more supple/flexible, since the natural horsehide hasn't been heavily oiled at the tannery (it's relatively unfinished) and is pretty stiff. This also increases the longevity of the leather in the long run, and can help in accentuating the grain from the get go.

The horse oil penetrates best out of all the animal oils I've used, and darkens the leather only just slightly (unlike others which have a more dramatic effect).

The beeswax is to seal the oil in and provide some water/abrasion resistance to the leather and keep the grain healthy.

I think most leather conditioners include oils, waxes, etc in a one-step application process.

I just prefer to use the natural and simple stuff, as it allows me to control the process better, and I know exactly what I'm feeding the leather.

I somehow looked over your reply. Thanks for the input Mike.

[mikecch]

^ NP mate.

Here's my faith x Ken type II, 4.5 months...

Before:

Now:

[MikeS]

Well since your bringing that belt up... When I went to Terry to make me a custom belt (that will be here any day) that is one of the two of your belts I showed him that I drew inspiration from... By inspiration I mean 2 of your many belts I Lust over.

I cant describe how pissed I was to find out the 2 styles of Kens belts sold out because I absolutely love the designs of them....

[mikecch]

^ Oh hey, sounds interesting - would love to see a pic of it!

I think Ken will be doing another collab. with faith this year (I saw some vintage buckles on Kurt's blog some months ago)...

The leather he uses is a bit on the thinner side for my liking, but the designs and craftsmanship are pure love!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I guess this belt (the leather for it) comes from the same tannery as the ones Terry made?

http://store.okiya.eu/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=189

Manufactured by Tender but still that's more than 3 times the price we paid. Thanks again mikecch !

[mikecch]

^ Hey b_F, yes, it's the same type of leather from the same tannery (J & FJ Baker at Hamlyns, Colyton).

Although the leather that Terry is using has been modified slightly from their regular natural oak-bark (I wanted something that will not only show a evolution of colour/tone, but also grain development - a complete patina).

The leather on the Quercus (15oz, 6mm) is also thicker than the belt in the link above.

I'm not sure exactly how the leather Tender is using is spec'd, best ask rodeo bill.

There are only less than a handful of tanneries in the world that still do a long bark tan (there's another in Germany), and most of leather being produced is a very stiff 'bend' leather intended for use as shoe soles.

Baker's is the only tannery left in England that still do the traditional long tan with English oak bark (the leather has a very characteristic natural colour, I call it mellow-yellow ).

[mikecch]

http://store.okiya.eu/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=189

Also, there seems to be an error with Okiya's description.

I don't think the belt leather would have been tanned for 18 months - that would be the length of tannage for 'bend' leather for shoes soles.

I think the entire process from raw hide to a finalised product might take 18 months, but I don't think the tannage itself is 18 months.

Baker's has 72 tanning pits of progressively stronger tanning liquor, the leather used for the belts goes through around 52 of these pits, spending approximately 1 week in each pit.

The minimum length of tan is 1 year and 1 day (it's a little superstition they have, according to Terry).

'Bend' leather goes through all 72 pits - the result is a very strong but extremely stiff leather, can't really make a belt from that.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge again!

About that tannery in Germany...I think I read something about that some weeks ago. I might find it again if I search for it

[mikecch]

^ NP mate

Here's one that's caught my eye recently:

[lance]

^ solid brass hardware?

[mikecch]

^ Yes it is, solid brass.

Would insta-kop if I didn't have something special in the works