Denim you despise?

[rayw44]

Believe me, I know you aren't defending him. I'm just a bit incredulous about the whole thing since his reaction makes no sense.

[Double 0 Soul]

It was rather uncalled for.

[Thor]

Mentioning g star on this forum is uncalled for.

Awful jeans. Worn by cocks.

[tmadd]

There hasn't been much good old shit-talking in superdenim for awhile, so I'll go:

 

I despise most jeans from Joe McCoy.  It's not so much that they are overrated, but they are blindly lionized because of the crazy hype that Real McCoy's gets.  The heavyweight sanforized denim they use is fine, but pretty underwhelming, and the unsanforized denim I've seen from them has been pretty nice, but the jeans all can't seem to help but have little design flares that aren't really that bad, but don't really jive with the notion most ascribe to that RMC stuff is so fucking accurate that it's just as real as the originals, maybe even better, which is the kind of hyperbole surrounding this brand which I'm alluding to.

 

All RMC stuff I've handled has been of obvious quality, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the materials they use, and the quality of their production, not to mention the fact that they create such a wide variety of awesome product within the fairly narrow scope of their brand(s) focus, and they certainly do everything well.  That said, they also play loose with a lot of small details (especially in jeans) and often overbuild their items relative to the vintage examples they are reproducing.  I don't have any problems with direct vintage repros, or with the idea of creating very very similar versions that have improvements in materials, construction, cut, design or whatever, but when those modifications are made, that kinda renders any discussion about how accurate the stuff is moot.  Or it should. 

[Sugar Mountain]

I generally find McCoys jeans to be underwhelming both in their raw state and when worn and faded. It can almost go without saying that their construction is top notch but the denim is rather flat. I feel their jeans get a bit of a free ride because of the reputation the brand carries from its sweaters, peacoats and leathers etc, 

[devilish]

McCoy's is not an accurate repro brand. They tweak the fit on almost everything they produce and change details a lot as well. They seem to want to make a 'super real' version of the original. So it's not surprising that they change details on the jeans. What is surprising is how generally underwhelming the denim on the jeans can appear. Personally, while I like the look of many of their items, I've always thought that the retail prices are a little ridiculous.

 

Buzz Rickson is the company to turn to for the more accurate reproductions of vintage military clothing and they're cheaper for very little difference in quality.

[fre-co]

 

Buzz Rickson is the company to turn to for the more accurate reproductions of vintage military clothing and they're cheaper for very little difference in quality.

 

This is not my experience with sweats. I have owned both RMC and Buzz sweats. The Buzz ended up bobbly and is long since discarded while the RMC ones are still going strong.

 

I'm not sure the japanese retail price is that different either, sweats seem comparable in price and the jungle cloth Buzz N-1 coat is a similar price to the RMC one if I'm not mistaken. How do the peacoat prices compare?

[conqueror]

This is not my experience with sweats. I have owned both RMC and Buzz sweats. The Buzz ended up bobbly and is long since discarded while the RMC ones are still going strong.

 

I'm not sure the japanese retail price is that different either, sweats seem comparable in price and the jungle cloth Buzz N-1 coat is a similar price to the RMC one if I'm not mistaken. How do the peacoat prices compare?

i have the complete opposite experience with the sweats.

[tmadd]

RMC makes a handful of different sweats, and has done some pretty different stuff from season to season, and Rickson has two distinctly different loopwheeled fabrics and cuts that it's used in the last 5-6 years, you could be comparing apples to oranges in terms of head to head comparisons.

[Maynard Friedman]

Having read your post a couple of times, I still don't understand why you despise McCoys tmadd. Have I missed something here or are you interpreting the thread title loosely?

[fre-co]

I'm glad I'm not the only one...

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I generally find McCoys jeans to be underwhelming both in their raw state and when worn and faded. It can almost go without saying that their construction is top notch but the denim is rather flat. I feel their jeans get a bit of a free ride because of the reputation the brand carries from its sweaters, peacoats and leathers etc, 

 

To me those examples aren't underwhelming but tastes are different:

 

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2941786

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2908269

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2909305

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2909306

[Megatron1505]

Having read your post a couple of times, I still don't understand why you despise McCoys tmadd. Have I missed something here or are you interpreting the thread title loosely?

Denim You Find a Little Underwhelming doesn't sound as good though.

[setterman]

I agree with you on N&F. I don't hate them, but I find a lot of the stuff they put out flat out ugly.

We all hate the douche brands. I'll stick my neck out and be critical of a sufu approved brand. I don't like Iron Heart. I don't despise them, but I made myself stop looking at the IH thread because one day I came to the realization I just don't like anything I'm seeing. especially their black or overdyed jeans. I think it's mostly their sheen when new, and the flat uniformity over the denim, all of which I believe that comes form the sanforization process. But, it just turns me off. Reminds me too much of polyester work pants. And I don't like the whole super heavy weight denim thing either (regardless of brand).

 

 

Now that I have a pair of Sanforized Lee repros, I can definitely say it's Sanforized denim I'm not a fan of, rather than Iron Heart itself.  I accept the Sanforization on my Lees because it's historically correct, and I can see that with some wear that there is some variation and beauty that will come forth.  But damn, I'd love to see what the denim would have turned out like if it hadn't been rolled flat. 

[lance]

^ I agree setterman - I refuse to buy Sanforized cotton clothing, no matter if it's historically correct or not - I think the process makes the fabric limp and lifeless

[altoclefchris]

 

The hairiness of some unsanforised denims is such a plus, too.

[tmadd]

Having read your post a couple of times, I still don't understand why you despise McCoys tmadd. Have I missed something here or are you interpreting the thread title loosely?

 

My original post got derailed a little bit by my clarification that this statement was limited to McCoys jeans, and my subsequent diatribe about some of the contradictory exultation McCoys receives as a brand.  I think the notion that I'm interpreting the thread loosely is also very correct, or at least different from how most people are...not only am I not addressing brands that are universally loathed here, or brands that are entry level, or just going for a totally different thing than what I like (how interesting would it be to listen to me explain why I hate APC and Naked and Famous?), but I wanted to approach the question from a standpoint of brands that are actually on my radar.  Brands I would conceivably be interested in buying jeans from based on the production values and materials they might use.  If I'm missing the point of the thread, my apologies...I think I was actually looking for a "most overrated" thread which I may have been imagining existed, and I ended up here instead...   

 

To sum up what I despise about the jeans:  The sanforized denim was a huge disappointment.  I hate the backpocket stitching on McCoys, the shape of it and the ornamental loop at the bottom corners of the pocket.  I also dislike the bright orange thread color McCoys often uses.  There is something about the stitching on most McCoys, and I honestly can't tell if it's the shape that a lot of the stitch lines are, or if it's just a combination of the gauge and color of thread and stitch count that they use, but I think it looks cartoony in a way that really ruins an otherwise minimal jean.  

[Sugar Mountain]

To me those examples aren't underwhelming but tastes are different:

 

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2941786

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2908269

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2909305

 

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/17950-real-mccoys-joe-mccoys-jeans/?p=2909306

 

Hence, 'generally'. There are always a few exceptions and DRZ's McCoys reached grail status (I also love the examples in the Denim Book). I still think the denim falls short of offerings from Warehouse, Sugarcane, Flat Head or Fullcount but tastes are different. 

[akuma no uta]

In general I really don't care for 5 pocket jeans.