Real McCoy's / Joe McCoy's Jeans

[kimi]

^^^ thanks for that, genuinely helpful. I think i'm gonna pass on the hoody and stick to the crew necks.. i'm pretty sure it will be too short for me in the size i usually take.

[fre-co]

My morning brew at work

Edited January 31, 2013 by fre-co

[Double 0 Soul]

Lot.003 are here..

World War II Repro,s

Details accurate to WWII War Production Board restrictions of the time.

Full legs with Cardboardy goodness.

Just as beautiful on the bits you dont see.

I was a bit unsure of the sizing with very few retailers offering a pre order, There is a huge amount of shrinkage on these. I have heard they shrink to above tag size. I have gone for the 31" with a TTS of 32"

They are in the bath now, Candles, Soft lighting, "Whats going on" playing in the background, they should show me some love.

[Double 0 Soul]

Non symmetrical but intentional pocket stitching.

Fit pic,s will follow within a few days.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Double 0 Soul

[Flash]

man .... I love those pockets !!!!!! . The crooked stitching just makes them feel "real" , I'd love to see these details on more period reproduction's

Looking foward to the fit pics

Edited March 4, 2013 by Flash

[beautiful_FrEaK]

not so sure about the offset belt loops on the side (like Evisu) as a true WW2 detail but the overall look is great. Pocket bags are really shoddy

How about the inside of the crotch? unfinished seams there?

[Double 0 Soul]

You know it, It might even be glued with araldite to keep it in period.

[Maynard Friedman]

Funnily enough, the inside crotch seam (fly to crotch) on my 555 LVC 44s is unfinished. Is that intentional? I just assumed it was a flaw and planned to repair it (overlock it by hand).

Edited March 4, 2013 by Maynard Friedman

[fre-co]

Fucking awesome 00... rekindled my desire for more RMC goods.

[Flash]

^^

that is a typical detail on most ww2 era levis , I know it's off topic but can anyone comment on the changes if any LEE made during ww2 ? ( I'm not realy a lee guy )

Edited March 4, 2013 by Flash

[JSkillZ]

looking to buy a Real McCoy's denim jacket Lot 927

I usually wear a small or 36 in Mister freedom jackets (N1 and MM). Not sure how to size with this, could anyone help a brother out?

I know there is a sizing chart, but I'm scared of how much shrinkage there will be...I'm thinking 38? thanks

[oomslokop]

the lot 003 is such a turn-on. even if philosophically ive got a few doubts abt the "nonsymmetrical but intentional" stitching. id rather the denim artisans be put to work under the same restrictions as their ww2 predecessors were and then see what kind of nonsymmetry and shoddiness they can come up with. ive been obsessively trawling rakuten for pics of the backpocket stitches and as far as i can find out they are uniform in their shoddiness--a magnificent feat in itself! but is this the opposite of wabi-sabi? or have these repro companies gotten so good that they can even repro wabi-sabi? a penny for your thoughts.

[coleslawyum]

Wabi-sabi can not be repro-ed since no 2 item will be the same. Since the spirit of wabi-sabi is the natural aging of things, anything intentional is kind of not wabi-sabi. I say kind of because it's difficult to explain in words. Nevertheless, the attention to detail that the RMC implements is magnificent.

[Maynard Friedman]

I posted this on another forum but I'll repost here:

I know rationing and rationalisation took place during WW2, hence the details we all understand on period repros, but why the wonkiness, if indeed that is also correct? Was common sense and eyesight rationed too? Or were the people sewing perhaps not the regular machinists and using substandard machines in worse than normal conditions, all due to the war? Hopefully someone can enlighten me.

[Flash]

Think it had alot to do with workload ( less people and more work ) i know levis themselves didnt have to many millitary contracts themselves but im sure alot of there workforce moved to other factorys to produce for the war effort

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Yeah I also read something like that. Many skilled workers were needed elsewhere. Not sure how true that all might be.

How would it have looked like? The government said "give me your workers to work in a factory for military clothing" and Levi's replied "Hell yes, take our best and most skilled workers for mass produced military clothing. We are happy to keep the untrained ones to produce shoddy jeans"

[Double 0 Soul]

Its true, a lot of the old artisan woodcarvers who were about to retire when i was doing my apprenticeship were moved to factories during the war that made gliders and aircraft because there skills were deemed far too valuable to be lost to cannon fodder. The downside was that they had to test pilot the plane that they had built, ensuring they did a perfet job.

[Double 0 Soul]

To add to this as far as craftsmen go home projects were put on hold until after the war, The government was awarding contracts to steel producing citys to make shells ect for the war effort. You had relatively few customers during war time so no great loss. With a lot of men either away fighting or manufacturing essentials for the war effort the quality of every non essencial item produced in that era will have suffered considerably.

[LFC4ever]

I'm confused re the sizing on the 003 - the 001 and 002 were totally different sizes - 002 massively oversized.

I guess these are more similar in sizing to the 002? ie oversized in raw state?

[Double 0 Soul]

You are correct LFC I have taken some pre-soak sizes, Wait until they are fully dry and i can answer sizing Q,s.

[Double 0 Soul]

I know rationing and rationalisation took place during WW2, hence the details we all understand on period repros, but why the wonkiness, if indeed that is also correct? Was common sense and eyesight rationed too? Or were the people sewing perhaps not the regular machinists and using substandard machines in worse than normal conditions, all due to the war? Hopefully someone can enlighten me.

I would speculate that the wonky pockets would be due to back pocket seam stitch not being an essential part of the denim and purely aesthetic (as long as they stay on job done), therefor that job would be given to the least capable seamstress, leaving the more capable people to sew the legs waistband ect which are an essential part of the denim and they are not wonky.

Lets be fair i struggle making running repairs to denim or even sewing on a button, I as an untrained seamstress (seamster whatever) would make an equally terrible job of the back pockets.

I know McCoys hold a massive vault of vintage which is constantly scrutinised to repro the perfect replica, so all of the details will have foundation somewhere.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Double 0 Soul

[pomata]

unfinished seams there?

is this typical on wwII repros? is there a pic somewhere?

[beautiful_FrEaK]

It is. Usually you have an overlock stitch to cover the open ending of the cut denim. Especially this isn’t done in the crotch area (visible only from the inside). I’ve seen it on LVC ’44s and even my Samurai S3000VX feature this detail

I got a picture somewhere

Edited March 5, 2013 by beautiful_FrEaK

[pomata]

it's on my lvc as well . though I never noticed

[setterman]

Yeah I also read something like that. Many skilled workers were needed elsewhere. Not sure how true that all might be.

How would it have looked like? The government said "give me your workers to work in a factory for military clothing" and Levi's replied "Hell yes, take our best and most skilled workers for mass produced military clothing. We are happy to keep the untrained ones to produce shoddy jeans"

Military clothing wasn't produced by the govt. Clothing contracts were awarded to private clothing manufactures, and they produced the clothing to govt specs. And the hourly wage for a pattern cutter, seamstress, etc, from one clothing maker to the next probably wasn't all that different, especially during the war, so people wouldn't have been jumping ship from one company to the next for better wages (and the govt wouldn't have been moving employees around). The number of employees at all the clothing manufactures, including Levis, would have declined during the depression. With the increased demand on everything during the war, these clothing companies would have seen an influx in new under or untrained workers. The addition of these workers would have created a less consistent product than what would have been made before the war, but one that was still functional. If you look at the S501s on http://www.marvins-jp.com/ you see a lot of variety in details (combinations in rivets, buttons, arcs, pockets), but in general they don't look massively different, quality wise, from what was being made before or after the war. The pockets seem to show the greatest variation, and that might have been where Levis stuck their newest employees at. You sat there all day riveting and sewing on back pockets. Mind numbing work.

Remember when we look at a pair of LVC S501s, or McCoy 003, you're seeing ideal (the Levis S501 has every possible WWII style detail, but you don't see many vintage pairs that actually have all of them) or exaggeration of an interesting detail (back pocket stitching, or belt loop attachment) that might be the exception rather than the norm. And don't confuse a military item made by McCoy's, Buzz, Eastman, etc, for what was made back in the day. Military stuff back then was mass produced cheaply, and probably not to any higher standard than what Levis was holding their 501s to.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

my point being was, that I have some doubts that the overall quality of the workers at Levi's would have descended that much to produce such back pocket stitchings live we see on the RMC pair here.

But then..yeah they are exaggerating of course. I think we've seen it on other Japanese brands before. Picking up a unique detail and exaggerating it.

edit: now I got it I first couldn't see why the quality should get down. But your reference to depression time and then the grwoing demand (needing more workers to satisfy) sounds pretty logical to me. Thanks!

Edited March 5, 2013 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Capsicum Fried Meat]

Just contribute my Toy's McCoy jeans to this dedicated thread

Toy's McCoy Lot. 930

[Capsicum Fried Meat]

[demonator]

how much for the rmc 003's?

[setterman]

I wish I could remember where I read it, but some reference I came across said Levis held workers on as long as they could in the early 30s, building up inventory, but by the middle of the decade had to let people go when unemployment in the US peaked near 25%. Unemployment had dropped to 15% by 1940, and then plummeted to 2% by the middle of WWII. Levis surely picked up a lot a new, inexperienced employees, and was turning out a lot of clothing in a hurry for the US's rapidly growing work force.