Unknown Non-Japanese Brands

[goodrain]

I have a pair of those Red Cloud chinos in olive. While the fit and construction are pretty good I didn't like the way the fabric faded after washing.(maybe it has to do with how the fabric was dyed?)

[DhaDha]

DhaDha - you love your Red Cloud goods. Are you sure you don't work for them!?

 

haha, no i don't work for them. i only got a few pieces by them and they are good stuff. comparable to the japanese brands i have, and a lot cheaper. i also think that they being made in china, with chinese fabric adds to their 'charm'. i love all my jawnz equally but talking about other well known,  well represented brands is not terribly exciting when people already know how good those are.  

[volvo240thebest]

just took delivery of this grandad shirt by bronson

not the best photo but I am very happy with it. fits nice and can be worn either tucked in or not, perfect lenght. the fabric is thik and substantial but feels very transpirant.

I am almost tempted to get another one in another colour.

I also bought a nice denim cap, it's great too. better photos soon.

[holio cornolio]

Saw this on your IG volvo. Nice. Bronson seems to have a load of nice new shirts including one that bears a striking resemblance to the upcoming TCB ranchman. I won't lie, I've been tempted, but I'm staying strong on this one and waiting for Inoue San!

edit: this one - http://world.taobao.com/item/521371526867.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4024-9955877604.1.xIAIcd&scene=taobao_shop

but the buttons / snaps look unusually placed

Edited September 25, 2015 by holio cornolio

[volvo240thebest]

haha yeah I saw that. the denim used by bronson can't really compete with TCB fabric though. bronson anyway makes nice stuff, the workmanship it's always very good. now that I know their XL sizing works great for my body I think I'll get more shirts, but definitely not the denim one.

Edited September 25, 2015 by volvo240thebest

[Cucoo]

Yeah, Bronson shirts are pretty nice. What sucks for me personally is that based on all the shirts I got so far I'm right between their M and their L - I have a couple M's that are a tiny bit too small and an L that is a tiny bit too big. 

[volvo240thebest]

if I got the Chinese translation correctly it seems that their last run of shirts is sized differently, more loose. so if that's correct you'd definitely be a M on the new Bronson shirts.

[Cucoo]

Yeah, I saw that, too. Before ordering anything new I really have to sell off some mis-sized eBay purchases though  

[goodrain]

quick pics of the 9.5 oz Bronson Chinos that I got. Materials wise it is not on the same level as the Japanese brands but the fit is pretty nice and I think they can be  good pants for the office.

 

 

[jameslow23]

Hi guys, i've got my pair of Bob Dong Lot:N039F in Size 34 for sale i have never worn them before although they've been washed once to reomve shrinkage. Drop me a PM and we can discuss!

 

I'm located in Singapore btw.

[Cucoo]

So, I think someone from Bronson reads this forum They're now making a ranchman shirt that's pretty much exactly the new TCB shirt, they even show the very same McQueen pics Volvo used to drum up interest in it.

 

 

http://world.taobao.com/item/522806622429.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.trTaqg#detail

 

They're using the H Bar C inspired tag they use for all their western shirts. The denim doesn't look that good of course, but the measurements do look a good deal more "conventional" than the TCB shirt.

[itsbenhere]

Lol, Bronson is officially the fucking worst.

[volvo240thebest]

nah the Bronson was available before or that least at the same time as the TCB. the design is a classic one by Levi's, already used by many other brands. I think also the flat head released two different denim shorts with this design years ago.

we were talking about this Bronson denim shirt already on the TCB thread awhile ago. Holio Cornolio saw that before it was even possible to order the ranchman.

Edited November 29, 2015 by volvo240thebest

[Cucoo]

Yeah, I guess I just hadn't browsed Taobao in a while

[itsbenhere]

I guess that's not as bad... And I know you can't change much about a western denim shirt. Still, it looks like a TCB copy somehow.

Was about to say they copied the MFSC drover blouse so that's why im on edge, but that was actually Bob Dong.

[heavydoom]

the chinese are infamous for copying everything from water bottles to soya sauce!  the pricing for the bronson products also seem too good to be true. 

 

what about the name " ranchman "?  isn't this a name that hajime came up with or is it a generic style name for a shirt?  bronson also named the western shirt a ranchman shirt!

 

for me the pricing gives it all away. 

[goodrain]

gives what all away? and soy sauce originated from China, dude

[Megatron1505]

Weird how there is little to no outrage when Japanese brands lift their designs from older American designs.....I think that's called "homage".

[bradl]

They do it out of respect, and seem to try and tweak it in a way they feel is better. China seems to do it for the sheer profit, total disregard for craftsmanship. 

[Megatron1505]

Man that's a pretty general statement. Having worked with a Chinese brand and had a good look at many others as well as working with several Japanese brands, I can tell you that your statement is incorrect in all ways.

 

Sauce Zhan have as much respect for their "source material" and as much knowledge as any Japanese brand I have seen, and I know of a certain well regarded Japanese brand who, well, lets just say there is some moral ambiguity to some of their stuff.

[Maynard Friedman]

You can't just leave that teaser hanging there Mega! Even if you can't name the brand you have to give us an idea of what you mean by 'moral ambiguity'...

On second thoughts, is it making stuff primarily in China and labelling it as made in Japan?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Maynard Friedman

[Megatron1505]

I'm saying nothing mate, I can tell you that it isn't a brand that I have associated with 

[bradl]

I was going to add something to China, as in not ever Chinese company does that, Red Cloud, and SZ are obviously not included in that list. But I was making a statement regarding any reproduction that goes on in China, whether it be from Bob Dong, to the millions of people making counterfeit items. 

[itsbenhere]

Weird how there is little to no outrage when Japanese brands lift their designs from older American designs.....I think that's called "homage".

 

You don't think there's a difference between making a pair of jeans inspired by Levi's, except the newer jeans age way better and have way more details than anything Levi's has ever done, and this?

 

Mister Freedom

 

 

Bob Dong

 

[Cucoo]

Yeah that jacket is a low point for sure, but it's not like a brand like Bronson is copying stand out pieces like that. They do just what all Japanese brands do and copy a whole lot of US military jackets in addition to the standard work and western shirts, henleys, pocket tees etc.

 

Their stuff, and also Bob Dong's I might add, is surely not as uber-engineered as top-line Japanese stuff, but it's more than decently made from nice fabrics and holds up just as fine (and better than normal mall Levi's for example). This is not the bargain bin counterfeit stuff that surely deserves to be condemned. (Disclaimer, I actually got that Dong "MFSC" jacket, but in my defense, this was before I had realized that it's a rip-off of a rather recent design. I still think you can argue about if it's actually that much more wrong to copy MF instead of just as copyrighted but older Levi's and Lee)

 

Long story short, in general I just think it's unfair to judge all Chinese repro brands based on this one example 

[Megatron1505]

See the last line of Cucoo's post for my exact p.o.v on this.

[itsbenhere]

I don't care if a chinese repro brand wants to make stuff inspired by the past, but I think that that Bob Dong jacket is more messed up than making 50's-inspired jeans.

 

Levi's has had it's time to make a lot of money on jeans, their rivet patent went from 1873 to 1890, and you know they've done just okay after that. Like I said, Levi's nowadays are a joke of their former selves and most repro brands are doing it better than Levi's ever has.

 

Maybe if Bob Dong waits 17 years to make a jacket like that I'll be less frustrated, but as of now it's just taking a designer's hard work in traveling, researching, and collecting old garments to make shoddy 2nd rate copies.

 

It is better he referenced MFSC on the page, but he's still profiting off the talent of a modern designer.

[Cucoo]

I agree that it feels subjectively wrong, but I think it's a bit harder to make that argument in an objective way. From a legal standpoint, I don't think it would matter that Levi's had a hundred years to profit from their designs is all I'm trying to say

 

I don't really want to play devil's advocate either. To be clear, when I first saw the real MFSC jacket it really spoiled my enjoyment of the Bob Dong jacket, have hardly worn it since

[volvo240thebest]

^ this. I think the whole discussion applies only for Bob Dong, who's blatantly ripping off other designs.

other chinese taobao brands are not that bad, Bronson looks to be a repro brand and SZ make his own designs.

I have bought 3 pieces from Bronson and honestly speaking I have nothing to complain with their stuff, which I find well made.

Same applies for SZ, I have only bought a chambray off them but that's probably the shirt I use the most, it's very well made and it's aging nicely.

I leave with others the discussion re-morality of these brands. Many moan about this brands and then maybe they buy stuff from RL made in China just as much. Here at least we speak about Chinese companies, not about US companies outsourcing their stuff in China....

[itsbenhere]

All I'm saying is you can't patent such simple things like the design of jeans or shirts. Thanks to the human anatomy, you can't really change it up that much... jeans are simply trousers made of denim, but using rivets.

 

You CAN patent/trademark things like design elements (Levi's arcs) and construction methods (rivets). Levi's lost it's exclusive right to using rivets over 100 years ago, and just a few years ago they exercised their trademark rights by suing most Japanese companies...

 

I'm just saying that Bob Dong copy is fucked up, and it's laughable to compare it to companies that make just make jeans. 

 

If you didn't know about the mfsc beforehand then yeah no problem, and like volvo said only referring to Bob Dong. Although I am still suspicious about that Bronson shirt...