Iron Heart Jeans

[Double 0 Soul]

"Mostly a smart post."

 

You might have to add a few exclamation marks hoggy i dont think tmadd will be able to hear you atop his high horse.

[Maynard Friedman]

I'm struggling to understand what a 'clean aesthetic' is and how IH is different to any of the other higher-end Japanese denim brands in this respect. They all pretty much just make variations of the same items: jeans, check shirts, denim shirts, chambrays, denim jackets, sweatshirts, etc.

In my opinion, the clothing produced by APC is far simpler, less fussy and has cleaner lines than any of the Japanese brands.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Maynard Friedman

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Seul]

Oh, and as promised... IH ducks with IHSH-77 then IHSH-16...

[Megatron1505]

Once again it is simply my opinion. I think that (in the main) Iron Heart clothes have a cleaner, simpler look than brands like Flat Head, Samurai, Strike Gold etc... APC may have cleaner lines, but I don't consider them in my thoughts to be honest.

Also I am not saying that this is a positive or a negative about Iron Heart, just simply stating my thoughts on what I perceive their strongest aesthetic to be. If you look around SuFu you will find quite a few gripes about IH being too utilitarian, others might say this is simple, practical beauty.

It is what it is, if you love it then great, if you don't its a big market out there, find something you do love.

[Megatron1505]

Maynard, I'm posting from my phone so going into detail proves thumb tappingly frustrating. However I am also confused by your statement that all the Japanese brands just make variations of the same few garments?

Surely it is this variation which makes us choose and which alters the "look" of these garments, no matter how subtlety. If it didn't then wouldn't there be far less competition? Wouldn't people just buy the cheapest or the most expensive or the one made of the best material, or in any way possible find another differentiator? Subtle variation has dramatic effect with high end clothing, this has always been the case.

[cc.rider]

some people like to coordinate their costumes and some people just don't care. as long as you are comfortable and happy. who cares.

edit; spelled their, there.

Edited August 7, 2013 by cc.rider

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Double 0 Soul]

I am not simply talking about coodination, Im interested in style some folks have it and some folks dont but the best thing is you cant buy it, and usually the more money you spend to achieve it the worse things get.

[Maynard Friedman]

Mega, I think we're in agreement, especially about the subtle variations of essentially the same range of garments, if you re-read my post, it is exactly the point I made; however, you've singled IH out for its 'clean aesthetic' without substantiating this in any obvious way. That isn't the same thing as 'subtle variation' at all. In what ways is IH different or 'cleaner' than any of the other brands? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm still trying to understand what you mean. If I wear a FH chambray workshirt and jeans, the aesthetic isn't really any different to or less clean than an IH one as far as I'm concerned.

I'm also typing on an iPhone, I do 99% of Sufu from one!

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Maynard Friedman]

For the record, I own 2 IH shirts, a blue chambray- IHS13? - it's the western without the shoulder yolk (sorry Double 0) and a red chambray workshirt.

I bought the blue one about 4 years ago and did quite a bit of research first. The reason I chose it was its unique look - pearl snaps without shoulder yolk, weight, IH reputation and ease of dealing with a UK-based retailer. I love the shirt. The red one that I bought a couple of years ago, not so much, it was a bit long and wide at the hem, fit a little less flattering overall, even though I've had it tailored.

I also have 3 FH shirts and I think the fit is far more flattering on me. Hems are shorter, straighter and more fitted than those on IH shirts. In my opinion, that provides a cleaner aesthetic.

EDIT: oh yes, FH also remove those annoying chain-stitch run-offs that IH seem to think we like. Much cleaner IMHO

Edited August 7, 2013 by Maynard Friedman

[Megatron1505]

I think you're absolutely right that Flat Head is cleaner for your body type, maybe my IH leaning on clean look was big guy bias, as I do think IH is particularly flattering to the more generously proportioned gentleman.

[Seul]

Aka lads who like beer, such as myself. I have a size 44 (XL) wabash Flat Head shirt that still has too much taper for me to really work... Size M in IH...

I don't do workshirts cause of the wide opening... Also why I sold the 13... So just so you know M_F: you don't have a slimmer IH shirt but they're out there!..

Edited August 7, 2013 by Seul

[Double 0 Soul]

That was a cheeky edit maynard! if i knew you would be bad mouthing run offs i wouldnt have bothered. Someone neg maynards last post  to restore equilibrium.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Double 0 Soul

[Seul]

I once had a collegue come at me with a pair of scissors saying "I had a loose thread"... I gave her a bewildered look and for a moment I thought about wrestling her...

Don't touch my chainstitch run-offs...

[tmadd]

Double 0 Soul, on 07 Aug 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

tmadd- It must be hard to remain impartial about IH while working for selfedge and being on the IH payrole?

Not a criticism i think that everything i make (and i suppose sell) is fucking brilliant therefor i have a strong bias towards it.

 

 

I was an impartial asshole on this forum a long time before I worked for Self Edge, and I hope the two things don't get mixed up in an unfair way.  I couldn't even begin to pretend that I'm not biased.  At the same time, I'll own up that most of my biases regarding Self Edge, and the products we carry predate my employment there by quite some time, as my proximity to the SF shop made it the only place I shopped for clothing when I was living in the Bay Area.  If anything, my experience working at Self Edge has made me appreciate the point that I was trying to make (and did an admittedly poor job) in my post last night...that is that Iron Heart succeeds in part because for many people who come into contact with it, it is very distinctly exactly what they want or obviously not for them.  With the people that it is successful for, it sometimes becomes the only option.  I have theories as to why this is, but that would make this a REALLY long post.  

 

 

hoggreaser, on 07 Aug 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

"Mostly a smart post."

 

Wow I should feel honoured, I wasn't seeking any validation of my post yet there you go offering your appraisal.

But you do realise how that sounds, right? Overlooking the cross-cultural difference in turn of phrase between the British and the Americans, and how an individual perceives the written word, I can't help but feel that there is something just a little patronising about that. For the sake of discussion I'll pretend that wasn't the intention. And I’ll attempt to put aside the inherent bias you have as a retailer.

 

"If you want to try to find something to fault Iron Heart for...make sure it's something that most of it's fans don't consider a positive feature"

 

Was this addressed to me? 

 

I don’t really want to go back over my criticisms – or observations, if that makes it any more palatable – but this makes no sense.

Are you saying that I shouldn’t question any notable or supposedly unique feature of a brand, or one on which it strives to position itself? Sorry but we don’t live in that kind of society. Free speech not autocratically bound.

 

I would have thought that was exactly an aspect that should be quizzed, questioned, studied and appraised. If somebody wants to sell me something based on what they assert as their USP, then I’m going to want to discuss that USP. Not something tangent or inconsequential. 

 

Now I’m happy to be told I’m talking horseshit, go for it.

But let’s just say that the "7 years worth of well documented anecdotal evidence on this forum"  leads me to a different conclusion. I wouldn't have reached it otherwise, nor made a public point of bringing it up for debate.

 

As for a "basic understanding of physics, and simple application of common sense." – well frankly, cotton is cotton. It’s fundamental properties remain the same. Is IH growing some kind of GM cotton resistant to abrasion and tear? I thought they used Zimbabwe. I thought they just wound more weft to the warp. So their cotton is tougher than that of anybody else? Better than Oni? Eight-G? Samurai?  ….Studio D’Artisan?  

Don’t insult my intelligence. Prove it.

 

And also perhaps you’d like to offer where the cotton does actually come from, and what mill too. The great IH secrecy does no favours to the argument.

 

 

I apologize for the condescending tone, you are right on that one.  Without being glib, what I should have said to accurately convey what I meant was that it was an entirely smart post, with the exception of one thing that I thought was stupid.  I addressed the part I thought was stupid with my "horseshit" comment, so I didn't need to double up.  Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, and pointing out how condescending that sounded...I am obviously not opposed to being confrontational, but I prefer to do so directly and clearly, and not through the means of passive aggression.  I thought it was stupid that you made an assessment of the hard wearing characteristics of Iron Heart without any first hand experience.   

 

The bit about addressing things IH fans like etc. wasn't addressed to you at all and was just me talking about the general nature of this debate.  All I'm trying to say is it really really looks like the heart of the argument is one camp is saying "I like Iron Heart and think it's the best because of A, B, and C," and the other camp is saying, "I don't get why people love this brand so much, because it's X, and lacking Y, and Z."  The answer is that excusing the instances where people get extreme and hyperbolic in their praises or criticisms (I guess this happens on the internet from time to time?) both parties are essentially right.  I think a debate on specific things about the brand or the product could be really interesting, but much more so if the merits or failings being discussed were defined clearly enough for both parties to actually be talking about the same thing.  I suppose it's optimistic of me to hope for any such level of discourse to exist on the internet, it's not really built for that.  

 

You are totally right that cotton is cotton is cotton.  And when it comes to durability of the fiber in terms of how many times it can be folded over, there isn't a difference between Iron Heart denim and other denim.  I hope this isn't overly semantic, but when I refer to "hard wearing", I'm talking about something that is a component of, but discretely different from "durability" which is a more general term.  When I talk about hard wearing, I'm talking about things like abrasion resistance both of the gradual and catastrophic nature.  I don't know of another brand with multiple stories of bicycle/motorcycle wrecks that would have normally destroyed jeans and taken off skin where the jeans have not only prevented injury of this nature, but survived themselves.  It's up to you whether that's a consideration worth making when you purchase a pair of jeans, but Iron Heart definitely has a good track record in that department.  The reference to physics and common sense was simply to point out that as far as abrasion related wear, the thicker fabric of Iron Heart would take longer/more to wear through than a lighter weight denim.

 

I totally concede to you on the idea that IH aren't magically durable.  I didn't ever mean to seem like I was making that claim.  Cut and sizing have everything to do with how long a pair of jeans is going to go without needing repair.  If durability was the only concern, poly/cotton work pants would certainly be the move.  

 

 

 

Seul, on 07 Aug 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Look into the 25oz. jeans. Honestly: it's the most brutal thing out there that fades beautifully...

 

 

They do fade beautifully, but as you said, they trade all the soft pliability of the flagship 21oz selvage denim for extra heavy weight brutality.  That's not my thing.

 

 

Megatron1505, on 07 Aug 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Once again it is simply my opinion. I think that (in the main) Iron Heart clothes have a cleaner, simpler look than brands like Flat Head, Samurai, Strike Gold etc... APC may have cleaner lines, but I don't consider them in my thoughts to be honest.

Also I am not saying that this is a positive or a negative about Iron Heart, just simply stating my thoughts on what I perceive their strongest aesthetic to be. If you look around SuFu you will find quite a few gripes about IH being too utilitarian, others might say this is simple, practical beauty.

It is what it is, if you love it then great, if you don't its a big market out there, find something you do love.

 

 

I think the idea of Iron Heart having a "cleaner aesthetic" is a pretty classic example of the nerdiest level of hairsplitting that can happen on here…which is what I like about the discourse that goes on here, and is something I'd happily argue about at length.  I come down on the side of the idea that in general, Iron Heart garments of a certain class are generally a little simpler and cleaner (it might be apt to substitute or add "flatter" here as well) than similar items from brands like TFH, Strike Gold, and Samurai.  Most of my argument is based strictly on textile qualities though, and not on actual garment design, fit or construction.  I have no problem looking equally ill-at-ease and slobbish in Iron Heart as I do in Flat Head!  Although this has started to change a little over the last year or so, Iron Hearts fabrics do definitely tend to be more uniform, and have less variation than some of the other brands mentioned.  The denim and flannel are the two places where I see this the most clearly. 

 

Edited August 7, 2013 by tmadd

[Maynard Friedman]

I think that's a really well written, considered and fair post tmadd, especially considering your role as a retailer. Hats off to you.

[itsbenhere]

I agree with most of tyler's points... it's easy to see why some people might be perplexed by the fanaticism surrounding Iron Heart (and others.)  It just comes down to what you're looking for.  Do you want something that feels really unique and has a high level of "what the fuck-ery?"  Check out Mister Freedom or Roy.  Do you want something that feels so heavy and substantial that even someone who couldn't care less about clothing feels the need to remark how intense it is? Iron Heart is your brand.  It's easy to see how someone incredibly interested in the unique details offered by specific archaic machinery might be turned off by something they don't see as "special."  I'd also be interested in hearing your theories about why some people see Iron Heart as the only option but maybe that's a discussion for a different day.

 

Pictures are always good.  Here's my sexih07iiibk (mod) with a few months of wear.  It desperately needs a wash and a shorter name.

 

[Double 0 Soul]

tmadd- very well put!  "applause"

 

maynard- how do you manage to stay awake until 11.49 with a 2 year old? im cream crackered by 10.30

 

ben- jacket looks very nice and restores the negative karma generated by the whiteys.

[itsbenhere]

Awesome, that is why I bought it right?

[Seul]

tmadd: after a couple of motnhs of wear and a wash or two, the 25 oz. jeans become as soft as 21 oz. jeans... Pinky swear!.. I've tried most IH denim (21, 19 SE collab, 18 raw, 17 LHT, 21/23, 15 oz. TW model, 14 oz TWHR01,...) and swear by the 25 oz...

[alexx1976]

 

 

 

sponsored by

 

Stetson

DIta

IH x 3

NB

 

haters gonna hate!

Edited August 18, 2013 by alexx1976

[Seul]

See how different styles are... I'm only a couple of hundreds of clicks away from Alex and this is how I roll...

No flash, just sunlight... IH-666XHS // IHSH-16 // RW

Now off to do some hard work... Picking up toilet paper...

[zwer]

While the 25oz is fantastic for colder weather (no long johns needed for winter in Toronto), it's no more durable a fabric than any other denim. My 666-XHS had to go in for extensive crotch repair (3 holes), at 5 1/2 months.

 

My 18oz 666s didn't last nearly as long - crotch repair at 2 months.

 

As per Seul's advice earlier in this thread and on the IH Forum, I washed my Mega Beatle Busters before wearing to soften up the denim, but I can already see the crotch isn't going to last more than 6 months before they get their proxy trip to SENY.

[Seul]

You must have a ballsack made of sandpaper... I've never had a crotch rip in my life... XHS'es been worn since Nov 2012... Even my 2008 Atelier LaDurances are holding up fine...

[Maynard Friedman]

Seul, you must have the physique of an Action Man!

[Seul]

You clearly have not seen my crotch fades... Proof of life...

[Double 0 Soul]

Now off to do some hard work... Picking up toilet paper...

 

Pick me up a bottle of CocaCola while your at it, for some inexplicable reason i just fancy one right now.

[S-Town]

^

Especially that "Hecho in Mexico" Coca Cola.  Damn, that is some good shit!!!