adsurgo's denim project

[40ozprophet]

Or legs like this man here

<<<

[LordOak]

we really need to get a poll going.

I understand everyones concerns about the fit being a fit that can cater to many body types and I agree.

but I am still hoping we decide on a slim cut with a boxy top ala dior

I also strongly suggest a hem line of around 7.5 as I hate shoe swallow and/or the faux boot cut that some slim straight cuts give off.

[brozek]

Since there's no way adsurgo's going to be able to please everyone, I think the best way to handle it would be to include the elements there seem to be a wide amount of agreement on (which I would say are half-selvage, green overlock, green tab, jeans-pulling-apart-person leather tag, donut buttons, and hidden rivets) and include/exclude the rest based on what will get the jeans here the soonest for the most reasonable price. I'd like antiqued hardware better than silver, but if it means something like waiting an extra six weeks and the jeans priced $20 higher, I can certainly deal with silver rivets.

[netsleh1]

most of what im worried about is if i have the superfuture name on it. waynes deal isnt mine. i dont own superfuture. if he allows me to put his companys name on the denim then its going to be his decision for the tabs. cali isnt off though either. it still scares me personally.

sending non attached tabs seems like a good idea.

It is true that Levis would have no incentive for/luck filing a law suit over these jeans (the bargaining power of the parties, the fact that no one is profiting, and the lack of effect on Levi's profits would insulate absurgo/sufu). If anything, a court would order injunction (to stop making them), which would have already happened. However, I do think it is the considerate/right thing to do to get clearance from Wayne in the event that he would have to defend himself.

[soulcraft]

I think at this point we should start with the polls. It`s going to be easier to track down what people want.

Still here is what I would like:

LVC 47 cut ( although i would be down to try a dior 21cm cut, i ll size up)

Hidden rivets

redline selvage is good with me

streaky denim looks good

green details (pocket lining, arcuate if any etc)

painted tab ( i really like this idea and that way no one gets in trouble)

silver rivets is cool, just a little shine to the jeans, nothing serious.

Medium rise (not low but please not regular, I wear my jeans on my hips and regular rise looks just plain gross)

doughtnuts button

button fly for that matter

slightly big back pockets ? (I like what imperial did, maybe not that big though)

all I can think of right now.

[BPT]

I would like to make two recommendations:

- I think it would be wise to go for 38" inseam to make sure every member can fit into the jeans. For the shorter people I'm guessing that hemming is not that big of a deal and it would provide you with some nice denim for patching etc

- I would again like to come back to the choice of fit. When considering the various suggestions made (Dior 19 & 21 cm, Skull 5010, LVC '47 etc.) it seems that there are three camps. The people that want a true repro, the people going for the "modern fit" (19 cm) and the people inbetween (21 cm). I personally for instance would really love to have the 19 cm cut as I'm pretty skinny. I'd suggest considering making two cuts (the 19 cm and a more generous repro cut to be determined) to satisfy the two major needs of the SuFu crowd. I realize this would pump up the costs and would take a larger number of interested members, but it would be worth the while.

[Pauken4]

If just "suFu" was used instead of "Superfuture" wouldn't Wayne be protected?

A green tab would be great!

[Pandemonium]

if you wrote superfuture, it'd be one long ass tab.

[Cali]

Could always put "SNOB" on the tab

[sneakeraddict]

Interested in this project.

My vote is for Repro / Classic fit.

[Pauken4]

If these are to be Dior 21 cut, would they be sized accordingly?

Dior size formula: 1/2 tag plus 1" = 1/2 waist

27 tag= 14.5"

30 tag=16"

31 tag=16.5"

32 tag=17"

etc.....

[Bona Drag]

no offense to adsurgo, b/c this is a brilliant idea

but there's a reason these things take time to set up, as the last eight or so pages of this thread amply demonstrate

if you're really sick of waiting for this stuff to happen, you need to be the jean nazi and make some executive decisions re: fit, inseam, details

otherwise this slim/relaxed/38/36/34 debate will go on forever, b/c it only takes a few persistant posters to keep it going

a couple polls may solve things, or they may not; if they don't, just do what you think is best

they're your fuckin jeans

and i feel you guys worrying about fit issues, but my sense is you can count on one hand the number of regulars here with jacked lower bodies

$0.02, etc

edit: um, basically what brozek said

[machineo]

yep to really get this thing done and satisfying all of sufu will take more than one cut and i dont know a thing about the logistics here, but im guessing establishing 3 cuts will both decrease the chance of this happening as well as lengthening the turnaround in getting these out. just like what was said, this is happening bc of you, adsurgo, so pick what you want, be it because its the cut you like best, because its a less used shape, or if its what wins in the polls.

The big things like fabric and cut should be your decision, while the details could be decided by committee, that being whoever for sure will be getting these jeans, regardless if theyre gonna be matchstick veggies, or wide leg streakies (please please please no)

and a long ass green tab with superfuture on it sounds cool

[Comma H]

A DH 21cm cut is perfect. Like others have said its versatile by sizing up or down and hemming (starting from a 36"). Those that say it is they are too tight, or 'ball huggers' are making assumptions.

I like the idea of a somewhat slubby dark indigo denim. Save the green for pocket liners and tabs rather than stiching.

What about straight line horizontal actuates across both back pockets? I havent seen this done often.

I think a plain patch would be cool, with "superfuture" embossed. Im thinking of the SOMET patches. An open ended patch would be cool, like on Lee jeans where a belt can pass between it and the denim.

Im very interested but im not going to commit until I see a sample, or some kind of solid evidence that this will definately happen.

[bustinxjustin]

I'm also very interested in this, but I'm going to wait until the discussion is over and we have a sample pair of jeans that I can base my decision on.

[mr_smartman]

since the cut and the denim is going to affect whos in and whos out, should we decide on that first and pretty much set it in "semi stone"?

[indigo_junkie]

What about straight line horizontal actuates across both back pockets? I havent seen this done often.

I think that's the standard arcuate for ALD (which I think are kind of boring, truth be told).

I agree with what Brozek and Bona Drag has said. Adsurgo's not going to able to please everyone. Just make some decisions over cut, denim etc... make that decision final and see who's left over in the end. Little things like silver rivets, thread colour, pocket bags, tab, zipper or buttons, choice of buttons, patch and arcuate, aren't too important. Just choose suggestions from either this or the dubbleworks thread, something that you like and make us a sample pair. Stuff like the above isn't going to be a deal breaker for majority of us, only cut and denim will be. Might as well make a pair of jeans that you like yourself. Kind of silly to put all this effort into a pair of jeans you yourself won't wear often. And make it quick, because if these jeans don't come out in the next two to three months, the jeans would be competing against the dubbleworks contest, and not everyone can afford to get two pairs (of course your pair and a pair of dubbleworks is going to be about the same price as one pair of really nice japanese denim so there is that).

[brozek]

I think that's the standard arcuate for ALD (which I think are kind of boring, truth be told).

I agree with what Brozek and Bona Drag has said. Adsurgo's not going to able to please everyone. Just make some decisions over cut, denim etc... make that decision final and see who's left over in the end. Little things like silver rivets, thread colour, pocket bags, tab, zipper or buttons, choice of buttons, patch and arcuate, aren't too important. Just choose suggestions from either this or the dubbleworks thread, something that you like and make us a sample pair. Stuff like the above isn't going to be a deal breaker for majority of us, only cut and denim will be. Might as well make a pair of jeans that you like yourself. Kind of silly to put all this effort into a pair of jeans you yourself won't wear often. And make it quick, because if these jeans don't come out in the next two to three months, the jeans would be competing against the dubbleworks contest, and not everyone can afford to get two pairs (of course your pair and a pair of dubbleworks is going to be about the same price as one pair of really nice japanese denim so there is that).

I agree (which makes sense, given who the post is agreeing with) - you risk people dropping out if they don't like the cut or the details, but I think there's an equal risk of people dropping out if there's so much input that it takes months to create a pair. Enthusiasm dies down, you run into competition with the Doublewerks project, people buy other jeans, etc. The majority of folks in this thread seem to be happy with a Dior 21cm cut (even if it isn't their first choice), so I think you should run with that and decide on other details given time and money considerations.

[seemeugly]

I pretty much committed to this regardless of the cut or details, becaue shit, it's what 90-135 for the first ever SuFu jeans? People need to ball up and just get behind this shit instead of bickering about it.

[machineo]

90-135 isnt a lot at all, especially compared to the other jeans (or shoes, jackets, belts, wallets) talked about here, and sufu inspired, so it comes with that cock of the walk sufuck the rest attitude weve all come to love and adopt. if you dont know, please pm adsurgo and tell him youre down. for all we know he might not have that many people who are totally committed

[thelion1856]

just make the jeans already, some people will bitch others will buy and i bet a lot of the ones who bitch will still buy it.

edit:

im only buying this if it is a bondage style jean.

[feather]

Can't cater to everyone. Best if you set a deadline for all feedback / options to be voiced, and take it from there.

[Mr Black]

I'm new to this site but this is one truly fantastic idea and i'm definately in!!!

My vote goes for :

repro/straight legged (but not too high a rise). Not seen the Dior 21's but IRO the '47's (preferably slightly looser) would be just dandy.

Full selvage with green stitch

Crotch rivit

slanted rear belt loop

Hidden rear rivets

14-15oz blue/black gentley streaked denim with a greencast (my fave denim colour is the one used in the Red-ear raw jeans a few years back, or the earlier issue LVC 1920's 201's.)

Copper rivits

Leather patch- any image is good for me

Green cloth tab (if allowed?)

Would prefer a 34" max inseam, but will take what i'm given.

yellow stitching

Doughnut buttons

How about a green stitch painted arcuate in a S501 style?

[Pandemonium]

everyones very iffy about the cuts --

if we're going to do a slim and a repro jean ripping a human as our patch, i think it's pretty smart to have both cuts.

[LordOak]

where has the OP been?

[Bobbejaan]

Count me in..

I'm loving this idea to have custom custom jeans..

I would love to have a repro style jeans.. with lots of small details that can only be seen by a denimhead.

[>++fishb0neR]

just make the jeans already, some people will bitch others will buy and i bet a lot of the ones who bitch will still buy it.

edit:

im only buying this if it is a bondage style jean.

people weren't bitching, they were giving suggestions..

seeing as suggestions were requested......

if group consensus leads to a certain cut, then go for it

true, not everyone has to participate....(it's a choice anyway, innit)

i was just throwing the fact out there that some people have differing opinions as opposed to just settling for the status quo.

if you have a chance to voice an opinion on a product you might spend your own money on, why not do it?

[/"bickering" and "bitching"]

sufu is a democracy, not america;) embrace all views even if you disagree

[jake431]

I already pm'ed but I am in. Also, I am a fan of the crotch rivet, so it would be neat if it had one.

-Jake

[Guest Airjamie]

Uhhh, can we get some official specs on these shits?? And not to be a dick but if there isnt a tag or anything that says superfuture, how are they superfuture jeans?

[MartinF]

Hey,

as i have been making jeans myself I have also spend quite some time researching production possibilites.

I dont understand why you are not willing to go outside the US.

The quality basiaclly have nothing to do with the country you choose but more with the company and the specifcation / production sheet you make.

Because of the massive Chinese invasion on the market, many companies from other countries have lost many orders because of the cheap production costs in China.

For example many companies in Thailand will accept "small" productions now.

Also many Eastern european countries are accepting small orders, because they cant compete with China on the price.

If you dont know a lot about production I would clearly advise to use a production agent that can take care of the production and choose the right company for the job and make sure the quality is up to the specifications and soo on - there is a lot of stuff to take care of.

The agent will of course set the price a little higher (depending on how many jeans needed - the lower amount the higher the price will be).

But it will still be cheaper than the prices you mention.

For an example a standard jean model (could use own cut/model), without any special treatment or wash through an agent should be no more than 16 dollars a pair at 200 pieces (a little higher if only 100 pieces).

Better denim which is of course wanted here, will of course set the price a little higher.

Then comes stuff like tags, buttons and zippers if you want anything besides something standard (etc buttons with logo).

Also normally samples are made and sent to you from the agent for approval before start of production.

- Find a trustworthy and reliable production agent.

- Make the cut / model and a detailed specifcation sheet - either make your own in etc autocad or some other format he will accept or find the model they should copy.

- If you dont have experience with grading, let him handle it as it requires quite some knowledge / experience. The company he chooses probably offers it as a service anyway.

- Get final price for the specifiations mentioned in the sheet accoring to size of the order, and agree on delivery time and payment details.

- Get sample and accept if okay and sit back and wait for package.

When the production company have all material needed for production of the jeans it shouldnt take more than a couple of days for production then the agent will probably go through the production and do a few tests and then a week or two for freight.

Also you can just get fabric samples from whatever makers you want. Just send the sample and the details to the agent when ordering, then they will sort out all the rest for you instead of you having to calculate the need amount and taking care of shipping and soo on.

If you find any colour you like (dont have to be any specific type of fabric) just save it and send it to them and they are usually able to find the best match for you in whatever type of fabric you need.

Just my thoughts.

Think an agent will be worth the money, and make the project a lot easier, and in the end also both cheaper and with an better outcome.

Lets say the production costs could be kept at 40 dollars for an example, I think it could be a good idea to set a fixed price at 120 dollars per jean, then it would only take around 33 orders for it to be profitable to have 100 produced instead of only the ordered amount. The profit made from the last 67 pairs could be used as a buffer for later production to make sure no one looses money.

Martin

ps. personally I would really like some light grey jeans for this summer.

Maybe a little shiny like the model Tiger of Sweden make called Slimmy which is available in both shiny white and light grey.

But havent been able to find any fabric I like in the colour soo far, else i would have made myself a pair.

...so im going to do the project myself.

people have been talking about doing this forever and nothing has ever happened. i really want this to happen and it seems like others do too so im going to try to get this shit done. for anyone who doesnt know, i am working on a line of my own so i have all the contacts i need already.

__this is the run down....

im hoping that we can get between 40- 100 people for this. im not going to pick anything. i want all the people here to design everything. any type of embroidering and tabs will have to be group voted on after suggestions, as well as a fit. i hope some people will be able to submit some ideas for leather patches and tags so we can use good designs for those too.

____payment should be around 90- 135 dollars depending on the denim we use. and heres why...

-cut and sew will be about 40- 60 depending on exact designs and stitching and whatnot because we will have to do sample prices since it will be such a small number of pairs and i wont settle for anything made outside of the US.

-patches, tags, tabs, etc will be about 20- 25 all together

-denim ranges between $3 - 8 per yard and well need about 3 yards each for one pair of selvage jeans.

-shipping the fabric to me, to the plant, back to me, and to you will be a ton.

-plus some money for pattern grading and any other little stuff like that.

_this is the thing... the money would need to get to me beforehand since all of my money now is invested into bills, living, and my personal endeavors. this obviously requires a great deal of trust and if i have to i will give everyone who pays me my full name and address and everyone who paypals me will already have that information as well as the ability to report me and get their money back.

_also, if i estimate a number and we end up paying less, i will definitely refund you however much it may be. i am not looking to make any money at all off of this (however if anyone wants to add a few dollars to payment I would greatly appreciate it). same goes for going over budget, i hope and expect that everyone will give me the few dollars back seeing as ill have to end up fronting it myself.

__the return time should be around 1 and a half to a little under 2 months assuming everything goes as planned and i get paid by everybody on time. this probably wont happen perfectly as planned so im going to say a good time to shoot for should be a little over two months - 2 and a half. i will keep everyone updated as people get back to me and i get information from the mill, ups, full service facility, patch and tag makers, etc.

__i would like to start ASAP because i leave for tour with my band in a little over a month. depending on how that goes i will probably need payment either right before or right after (early/mid july or mid/ late august). if i get payment beforehand i will be able to work with everyone from the road. i have an internet capable pocket pc and will be around computers most days so i dont think this will effect much besides the handling. as far as that goes, i have a close friend and some family who is more than willing to do all the handling and whatnot.

____options/ ideas for denim are as follows.....

-some things from cone that i have samples of lying in my basement (first batch of pictures. sorry for the bad quality, theyre from a phone. ill get better pictures soon).

-some things from a thai mill that i have pictures and swatches of (batch two of pictures. i dont see anything too great in most of these).

-ive recently acquired contacts for kaihara and kuroki ( i assume this is what everyone will be wanting so give me some ideas as far as denim type and ill see what i can get).

(picture batches are in the following posts...)

please remember everything i am showing you are just ideas and i am open to finding whatever denim that would be wanted.

i am super excited for this. i would love for everyone to post ideas and information whenever they can, as i will be doing the same. i plan on making a ton of updates.

i am so happy that all these other projects are going on and if this happens it will make me that much more ecstatic to be be a part of this board and community.