Unknown Non-Japanese Brands

[Megatron1505]

Cucoo, sorry I just negged you thanks to my giant clumsy fingers. Can somebody recover that for me, the Bob dong stuff looks great.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Megatron1505

[Megatron1505]

aho, I wasn't making a counter point to you, your post was great, I just wanted to expand on it to make it "thread relevant" in context 

[volvo240thebest]

here's some detail pics of a Sauce Zhan chambray, pictures speak more than words!

[Coolguyzack]

Megatron, that post was top notch. As far as Lawless is concerned, I don't think I've ever seen a new company or manufacturer that hasn't had its trial by fire. Nobody does it right the first time. Lawless might have bit off more than they could chew, but I still think they can have a place in the market if they can salvage their reputation and respond properly to criticism. I'm all for denim diversity lol.

 

I think crowdsourcing is also an interesting aspect to it all. I think it really has a lot to do with how we perceive these new companies, in a bad way. It shaves away any sort of credibility when you can have a group of guys who have virtually no experience running a business, let alone one that involves a skilled craft, get a crap ton of money from "investors" who also don't have any idea how to invest well, other than get their discounted gift-thing. We don't get the neat origin story from humble beginnings, the same sense of security knowing that the business has been going for so many years and only getting better.

 

And though that's not the case for every crowdsourced company, I've found that that stigma of new-ness still carries over and makes it hard for myself, and probably others to respect them. 

 

Slightly related, I sort of found an answer to Tmadd's question on the last thread when he asked if they actually made the jeans in Arizona or in an LA factory, all I've been able to find was a little sentence about it on their kickstarter page,

 

" In a vintage building in Los Angeles and a modern store in Phoenix, American craftspeople come together every day with one thing on their mind—hand crafting jeans, purses, jackets, belts and other accessories that they can be proud of. "

 

So my guess would be they do contract the work out to a factory in LA. 

[UnionofArtisans]

Very pleased to see Sauce Zhan growing in reputation, very interesting brand to follow.

 

I am quite keen on discovering African brands somewhere somehow.

They have quite the history in regards to weaving and indigo dye, and up to the late 80s Yemen was one of the places where they had purple shellfish-like indigo cultivated.

Note: this color was realized by pissing in the indigo dye. That fabric would probably be great for bar-time jeans 

 

But here should probably be someone in those parts able to make good jeans, they have the cotton and weaving abilities, and "vintage" machinery around anyway.

 

If anyone has any leads, let me know

[Cucoo]

Note: this color was realized by pissing in the indigo dye. That fabric would probably be great for bar-time jeans 

 

That reminds me of stories about Moroccan leather that is traditionally tanned with camel piss or something like that. Tourists buy handbags or wallets, take them home to wetter climates and are freaked out by the developing smells

[Cucoo]

I received this Bob Dong blanket lined "Drover Blouse" today, I know by now that this is one of the more blatantly copied items... (call me naive or a noob, but I only learned very recently that this design is pretty uniquely MFSC)

 

 

 

 

Overall it's a fine jacket. The leather parts are very stiff, but they'll soften up. Sizing is a bit strange. Shoulders, chest and length are fine, but the neck opening is way too tight when buttoned up all the way. Anyways, it's certainly warm enough for fall and early winter, and definitely worth the €80

[Megatron1505]

It's a great looking jacket, and certainly worth the money. Would you have bought it if you had realised prior that it was a "borrowed" design?

 

This is what does make me uncomfortable about certain aspects of the Chinese denim scene, and honestly it could be potentially damaging if these brands want to be taken seriously. A lot of people have a lot of love for brands like Mister Freedom, so ripping their designs will not endear them to the wider denim community.

[Cucoo]

Would you have bought it if you had realised prior that it was a "borrowed" design?

 

I really don't know. I certainly wouldn't have had the $$$ for the real thing, though.

 

I agree about the heavier borrowing leaving a bad taste in your mouth, so to speak. I'm ok with being influenced by MF etc. to the point of designing stuff using the same design language, or maybe even "remixing" pieces by other brands, but just taking this jacket, flipping the side of the breast pocket and slapping your brand name on it, well, that's a sure way to piss of the really loyal MF fans.

 

Bob Dong did a version of the MF CPO shirt that is not quite as close to the original if I remember correctly, that's something I'm much more ok with personally.

[Megatron1505]

Thanks for the honest answer man, much appreciated. I agree that there are degrees of inspiration and blatant copyright theft (see Levis vs everyone else).

[Cucoo]

The good thing is, 99,99% of all people around here have never heard of MF, don't particularly care about denimhead stuff and will probably just think "that's a weird denim jacket" when seeing me wear it

[Cucoo]

Here's some detail shots of the Bob Dong wabash pants and vest. Luckily the measurements on Taobao are pretty spot on, I went with a 29 in the pants - they measure like a 30 and the fit is great. Could have gone up one size in the vest, though. Craftmanship is great with these, I love the button holes and overall construction. Fabric is heavy and stiff, both haven't been machine washed yet (just soaked once), I'm looking forward to see them develop some patina.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a simple Bob Dong chambray work shirt. Triple stitched with three thread colors and chainstitch runoff, and a green "Dong" tab on the pocket.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cucoo]

And a last pic dump, Bob Dong pleated duck cotton jacket, 507-style, no hand pockets. "Distressed" rusty laurel leaf buttons and rivets. Red "Dong" tab. I'll always get a chuckle out of that. Jacket is your typical short and boxy vintage fit, looks stupid with most longer shirts but with a tucked shirt or short T-Shirt it's great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Since this is a Levi's style no one will bat an eye at it being a rip-off design  )

 

[Projectp]

The Take5 website won't open for me. Does anyone know whether the Hong Kong shop carries any of the brands discussed recently in this thread (SZ or Bob Dong)?

[Megatron1505]

It doesn't, which is odd. Maybe they will as these brands become more well known.

[Cucoo]

Bob Dong seems to stay exclusively on Taobao by choice. Maybe they'll open up to other distribution channels in the future.

[Projectp]

Thanks. My father in law is there at the moment and I was hoping he could grab something for me. I guess I'll just stick to proxies for the time being.

[Iron Horse]

It doesn't, which is odd. Maybe they will as these brands become more well known.

 

Hmm, maybe, but doubtful; Take 5 makes it a point of only carrying Japanese brands. There are a few made in China items, but they're Cat's Paw, which is made by Toyo.

[UnionofArtisans]

The Take5 website won't open for me. Does anyone know whether the Hong Kong shop carries any of the brands discussed recently in this thread (SZ or Bob Dong)?

 

I believe the owner of Take5, Benny, does have a hand into Red Cloud HK franchise. Not sure as this is a seperate branch of our Red Cloud business. But I think they will never focus strongly on China brands as they are franchising Take5 into China PR at the moment to put MIJ brands out there.

[bradl]

Do you think Benny would take on someone like Bob Dong given how most of his items are direct copies of other brands, but then again i guess that could be said about other brands.

[Sugar Mountain]

I really don't see Take5 carrying any of these Made in China brands. As Iron Horse states, their focus is MIJ and the Amekaji style. Yes, Benny is pushing into China and elsewhere in Asia but only with the Japanese brands that he holds the licence for. Quite honestly, speaking of Hong Kong only here, I don't think the local market would be at all interested in MIC brands. Too many negative connotations and none of the cool of Japanese gear.

[Megatron1505]

It's weird how easily people dismiss their own domestic product because of misconceptions and a love of imported goods. Happens all over the world and in virtually every market.

[volvo240thebest]

yeah true. I can pretty say that to me as well. I keep looking for japanese brands and I ignore local Italian denim brands even though there are some here which are well worth, like Scartilab, Blueblanket and Redux, and others.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

except for the Americans..they love their "Made in the US of A" stuff.

Oh and we Germans love our cars

 

I think there are exceptions for everything

 

 

PS: there might be a pair of SZ for me soon

[BlackPig]

Pulled trigger on a pair of sz oceans. Will be interested to see how they compare to my Japanese raws.

[UnionofArtisans]

It is interesting to see how MIC brands will develop in China PR. From experience, I had many Chinese customers that wouldn't even touch MIC products when they were shopping in Europe. They regard it as inferior and they want to show family and friends in China that they bought Made in England, USA, Germany etc. It's mainly a prestige thing, and largely among the wealthier classes.

 

I do however hear positive developments from people that either are in China or work with China brands/designers.

Amongst the younger generations there is a fast-growing turn around in MIC brands and they learn more about product quality and not just brand names and where it is made. So the "how is it made" is also becoming more important in China. They are realizing there is a massive profitable market for this, both in China and for export reasons. If you consider the amount of stores opening around the world of high-end Chinese designers, this is sure to trigger development in the mainland.

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Megatron1505]

No disruption HG, right on topic.

[volvo240thebest]

what brand are these Hoggy? nice leather colour, typical italian style over-your-face branding though! what sort of horween is that? might ask for a similar colour for my upcoming Lennon shoes order.
I definitely prefer English shose over Italian as a general point of view. Funny enough I've had some Irish and British friends visiting and more than a few of them were very excited to buy Italian shoes, they all bought some clownesque Moma's from a local shop, thinking they are very cool. I'd be more happy to buy some Trickers or Alfred Sargents though!
for anyone who like clark's desert boots there is a very nice Italian brand doing a much better quality model than Clarks, the brand is called Astorflex and they use some real good leathers. I don't like DB's (I had enough of them for my entire life!) but many of my friends here love them.

Edited October 27, 2014 by volvo240thebest

[exaptavist]

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Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser