Shoes that look better with age...

[beeetus]

Thinking of finally upgrading from my many pairs of Frye's and building a custom pair of boss's, but had a question about the black leather choices that I'm hoping you fine folks can answer.

Which of the black leathers will give me the most shine? I had a pair of 2268's that I regrettably had to sell because they were just too small, and I loved that leather. I'm looking for a sheen similar to that. it's hard to tell from the website, but it looks like black tie might be my best bet. suggestions?

[Megatron1505]

i think you are more than likely right about that bt, an expensive lesson had been learned.

[big truck]

They should refund you though. You couldnt have been any clearer about you wanted and they failed to deliver. If I were you I'd file a small claim against them in the local County Court if they don't sort it out. Not only have you not got what they said they would provide but it will cost to put it right if they do not do it.

[CrashTestBrummie]

crashtestbrummie - good point. Don't understand the obsession with making clothiers/shoes look fucked in as shorter period of time as possible. Its not as if thats what people did back in the day either. They looked after their stuff given that they didn't have the disposable/addictive personalities that frequent clothing forums these days.

yeah...the truly handsome vintage stuff you see, boots, denim or otherwise, will be stuff that's been worn for a long, long time and looked after throughout its life...and normally worn in some kind of loose rotation, however informal.

buying stuff that is guaranteed to age quickly is effectively buying something that will fall apart just as quickly. i'd rather buy a pair of boots that will show their age over a decade or more than something bought ulitmately for e-validation and e-respect.

megatron - i couldn't have put it better than big truck. cut your losses and find someone who can do the job to the spec you need. i'm getting the shoehealer to sort out that veldtschoen mess caused by that shitty cobbler in london - at least with richard, he'll be honest about setting expectations from the start.

[garden gnomes in space]

Mega- I would try to get your money back and just send them to White's. If they are already exhibiting signs of hostility and not knowing what the fuck you are talking about, even though you were crystal clear, it can only go downhill from here. That blows. I have a great shoe guy in my neighborhood, but all I really trust him with is gluing wedge soles onto my Red Wings. When stitch work is needed, I need to seriously consider who get to do it. Im done dealing with hacks.

Edited March 28, 2012 by garden gnomes in space

[Megatron1505]

I have just done exactly that ggis, I have sent them an email requesting the return of my boots, and a refund.....I have no doubt that there will be an excuse as to why they can't do this.

[PeterParker]

That's terrible luck, mega. Your story makes me want to buy a pair of White's before moving out of North America; seems like dealing with them stateside is a convenience I should take advantage of while I can.

On a related note, anyone heard of Ultrasound Boots? They have a great collection of White's (and other workboot) porn:

https://www.facebook...id=198093005548

Nice to see some of the less common leathers and various sole combinations.

Edited March 28, 2012 by PeterParker

[smittybat]

Thinking of finally upgrading from my many pairs of Frye's and building a custom pair of boss's, but had a question about the black leather choices that I'm hoping you fine folks can answer.

Which of the black leathers will give me the most shine? I had a pair of 2268's that I regrettably had to sell because they were just too small, and I loved that leather. I'm looking for a sheen similar to that. it's hard to tell from the website, but it looks like black tie might be my best bet. suggestions?

Black tie definitely has the most shine of the leather options it's a 5oz leather, where the black and the black fire are 7oz. I think the regular black is oil tanned and the black fire is silicon tanned.

Here's an example of these in black tie - http://www.mrmuddand...boss-black.html

Some more detailed info here - http://www.boot.com/bwfeatr2.htm

Edited March 28, 2012 by smittybat

[indigoeagle]

yeah...the truly handsome vintage stuff you see, boots, denim or otherwise, will be stuff that's been worn for a long, long time and looked after throughout its life...and normally worn in some kind of loose rotation, however informal.

buying stuff that is guaranteed to age quickly is effectively buying something that will fall apart just as quickly. i'd rather buy a pair of boots that will show their age over a decade or more than something bought ulitmately for e-validation and e-respect.

Yes, you have a point there.

I'm not into pre-distressed stuff generally and normally my philosophy is that I can't afford to buy cheap stuff, preferring something is of good quality and will last a long time.

But I'll make exceptions. Sometimes I can enjoy the look of something wearing in quickly. And a question of purpose: When I ride my motorbike I need sturdy boots, when I'm about town some soft ones should be alright. Plus I don't think that most people- especially here- really wear their clothes till they're gone and only then will purchase new stuff as a necessary replacement.

[CrashTestBrummie]

But I'll make exceptions. Sometimes I can enjoy the look of something wearing in quickly. And a question of purpose: When I ride my motorbike I need sturdy boots, when I'm about town some soft ones should be alright. Plus I don't think that most people- especially here- really wear their clothes till they're gone and only then will purchase new stuff as a necessary replacement.

soft stuff is fine, but even then i'd look for quality that would last for some time - my 'soft' shoes are a pair of sargent suede welted chukkas that i expect to last several years at least (and if they look great in that time, then it's a bonus).

i'm certainly not in the habit of only buying new stuff as replacement gear (my footwear collection is testament to that), but i'd still baulk at the idea of buying something that would look 'vintage' after just a few months.

[fre-co]

Megatron, unlucky with that. I did think they would struggle with whites stitch down construction. But that is by no means a mark agaist their name. It is pretty much unheard of here.

I think the issue is that they agreed to do it and hashed the job. If they were honest in the first place then there would have been no messing about.

I wouldn't call the quality of their Goodyear welt resoling based on your experience though. My only analogy can be trying to get a pair of 21oz ironhearts hemmed at H HUNTSMAN AND SONS on savile row.... It wouldn't end up well.

Edited March 28, 2012 by fre-co

[CrashTestBrummie]

My only analogy can be trying to get a pair of 21oz ironhearts hemmed at H HUNTSMAN AND SONS on savile row.... It wouldn't end up well.

i bet they'd put a wicked rolled shoulder on a type ii jacket, though! you might end up with just one button on the front, however...

[smittybat]

I think I'll be in a similar situation trying to get veldtschoen shoes resoled in the US. Best bet is to let those with experience handle them. Kind of ridiculous they agreed to do the work. It was even more ridiculous when they reaized they couldn't do it correctly and did it anyway.

[T.O.BestWR]

The Herring shoe is a re-branded Loake, I believe, and you'd be better off spending a few more quid to get a similar shoe from Cheaney which will at least be properly English-made. Cheaney also make shoes for Herring at a slightly higher price point.

Never owned a pair of Allen Edmonds but have handled a few worn pairs and they seemed solid enough, although not to my personal taste.

Thanks but i don't understand what do you mean when you say that Herring shoes won't be properly English-made?

Edited March 28, 2012 by T.O.BestWR

[CrashTestBrummie]

Thanks but i don't understand what do you mean when you say that Herring shoes won't be properly English-made?

depends on who made it for herring (a retailer). loake manufacture the bits of their shoes outside of the united kingdom (india, or at least it was when i read some article on it a few months ago) and then assemble them here. cheaney also make shoes for herring, and i believe that their shoes are all still made in northampton.

cheaney used to be a division of church's, who are now owned by the italian firm, prada, but still make shoes in england apart from some of their mocassin models, which have been made for church's in italy long before they were bought by the italians. cheaney, as a division of church's, was recently bought back by the church brothers who now have nothing to do (as far as i know) with the brand originally named for their forbears. confused?

Edited March 28, 2012 by CrashTestBrummie

[beeetus]

Black tie definitely has the most shine of the leather options it's a 5oz leather, where the black and the black fire are 7oz. I think the regular black is oil tanned and the black fire is silicon tanned.

Here's an example of these in black tie - http://www.mrmuddand...boss-black.html

Some more detailed info here - http://www.boot.com/bwfeatr2.htm

Good heavens those look great in black tie. Looks like that's my leather. thanks!

[attackwithstones]

UPDATE on Custom Wesco Boss Boots from Kyle at Bakers:

They can NOT get Wesco to make Custom Boss Boots with a Motor Patrol Toe and the Highliner/ Cuban heal. I talked to Kyle today about ordering a boot very similar to the Narrow Wescos from Japan. They will simply not do it. You can get a Motor Patrol toe, but it has to be accompanied by the motor patrol heal; a short straight heal. Therefore you can not get the look of the Narrow wesco any longer without actually ordering them from japan. But you could always get Bakers or another cobbler to simply take off the motor patrol heal and add on a taller stacked leather cuban heal. A few pairs were made through Bakers, but they slipped through. Wesco is being very tight now on the agreement with Wesco Japan that they can't produce anything to compete with the narrow wesco.

The Wesco price changes that John mentioned on Vintage Engineer Boots Blog are WAY higher than I could have imagined. Every custom option is going up in price.

So Beetus, if you want custom Wescos, you better put that order in before April 1st!!!! You will save significant money.

And as far as the White's custom engineers now on Bakers, Kyle said that it should be no problem to order them without celastic reinforcement in the toe. So they will be soft toes. He is already talking to White's Boots about getting far more options for the custom boots.

Edited March 28, 2012 by attackwithstones

[T.O.BestWR]

depends on who made it for herring (a retailer). loake manufacture the bits of their shoes outside of the united kingdom (india, or at least it was when i read some article on it a few months ago) and then assemble them here. cheaney also make shoes for herring, and i believe that their shoes are all still made in northampton.

cheaney used to be a division of church's, who are now owned by the italian firm, prada, but still make shoes in england apart from some of their mocassin models, which have been made for church's in italy long before they were bought by the italians. cheaney, as a division of church's, was recently bought back by the church brothers who now have nothing to do (as far as i know) with the brand originally named for their forbears. confused?

lol, kinda confused, i understand what you mean that the bits of the shoes produced by loake are made in india but in the description of the Herring Hampstead (http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&shoeid=453) it's written that it's hanmade in Northamptonshire. Does that mean that it's only assembled in Northampton or completely made there?

Thanks

[beeetus]

And as far as the White's custom engineers now on Bakers, Kyle said that it should be no problem to order them without celastic reinforcement in the toe. So they will be soft toes. He is already talking to White's Boots about getting far more options for the custom boots.

Has anyone ordered the whites engineers? Would be curious to see them without the ugly sole/midsole they've got on the bakers site.

[danisdead]

Mine are not aged at all but my daughters are from the 70's

Edited March 28, 2012 by danisdead

[garden gnomes in space]

Has anyone ordered the whites engineers? Would be curious to see them without the ugly sole/midsole they've got on the bakers site.

LOL, I saw that. I immediately disliked them because of the sole. Id imagine a natural or brown trim would look great

[knucks]

Those Fiberglas look great. I have a pair of baker oxfords in brown with the cap toe and cristy wedge coming. Will resole like the viberg when time comes for sure.

[coleslawyum]

Its disheartening to hear that a cobbler in england would not even know what a stitch-down construction is. i know that its not that popular around the world, but at least have knowledge of it. its your living to repair shoes and boots, you should at least read something about it.

i thought i would post some pictures on how a true stitch down repair should look like. (And it also doesn't have a "fake" welt.)

I got these back from Mr. Okuyama recently. these are wesco harness with no straps. i asked for a double mid-sole and vibram 700 outsole.

What he does is he first takes out all the stitching. He leaves the original mid sole attached to the "welt". The welt is actually created by turning out the upper and attaching it to the midsole. This creates a channel that does not allow water to enter. He pulls off the original outsole. He then adds the extra midsole, and finally the outsole (vibram 700).

with the last touch he Rapid-e stitches both inner and outer stitching through all 3 soles. the thread expands into the stitch holes and you got a pretty water resistant seal.

as you can see, the same stitch holes were used, and it does not look like shit. its not such a difficult job. i just think most "cobblers" are lazy and refuse to give a damn. i can't believe they expect to be paid for such shoddy work.

[wgmds]

sucks that wesco is being tight about it now. it seemed like i would have been able to get them a just like the narrows a few months back . as for the white's engineer, i agree. it's probably going to be the new wesco since it's price is what wesco is now, and it's pretty good looking (besides that rivet...). they'll probably be able to get different toe styles eventually and all will be good in the neighborhood!

[devilish]

^^ In some respects the 'stitch down' construction is very similar to Veldtschoen, in that the upper leather is turned out and not in and then stitched through the whole sole. Maybe an English Veldtschoen specialist would be able to do a better job. Just not the one that Crashtest used in london.

Edited March 29, 2012 by devilish

[attackwithstones]

Can you have a double midsole, a single leather sole and a 705 Vibram half sole?

Or does that not work, and therefore you'd have to have a single midsole, a single leather sole with the 705? Sorry to sound confusing... I'm just thinking of every option before ordering.

http://www.mrmuddand...boss-black.html

this pair has a single midsole with a 705 half sole. Does it have a single or double sole?

Edited March 29, 2012 by attackwithstones

[Paul T]

^^ In some respects the 'stitch down' construction is very similar to Veldtschoen, in that the upper leather is turned out and not in and then stitched throught the whole sole. Maybe an English Veldtschoen specialist would be able to do a better job. Just not the one that Crashtest used in london.

I thought that too.

John Rushton's man did a good Veldtschoen - if I was being ultra picky, I'd say the thread used was a bit thin (there are photos on here). But it's very similar.

(the specific Lotus Veldtschoen construction is shown on my little old blog: http://loomstate.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/lotus-veldtschoen-guaranteed-waterproof.html)

coleslawyum, great post, as ever.

[coleslawyum]

That looks like single midsole with a 705. sounds like you want a double midsole triple front and a 705. Im not sure what that looks like but I'm sure it can be done. Maybe not by wesco but a cobbler can do that. I usually do single mid sole and double front with a rubber outsole, usually a 700. I'll post a pic.

[baldy]

Can you have a double midsole, a single leather sole and a 705 Vibram half sole?

Or does that not work, and therefore you'd have to have a single midsole, a single leather sole with the 705? Sorry to sound confusing... I'm just thinking of every option before ordering.

http://www.mrmuddand...boss-black.html

this pair has a single midsole with a 705 half sole. Does it have a single or double sole?

do you really want 3 layers of leather and then a rubber sole? it will be quite stiff and heavy im thinking. The ones you posted have a single sole. I don't think there's such thing as double rubber soles

[CrashTestBrummie]

fantastic old pair of tricker's brogues which fit the remit of this thread, look like they were originally c-shade (?) and a patina has built up over the years. of note is the fact that these are a '4' fitting (narrow in tricker's terminology but probably equal to every other maker's 'medium')which isn't found these days as a standard fit:

tricker's themselves have finally brought their website into the 21st century (just about) with some useful pages of stuff to consider for their mto programme. looks like they're encouraging people to order direct, but the benefits of being a regular shoehealer customer outweighs any benefits of going direct to source...

crockett & jones have also recently updated their site, too, showing the different collections available in different territories.

Edited March 29, 2012 by CrashTestBrummie