Shoes that look better with age...

[erbs]

How do Vibram soles fare on ice? I'm trying to decide between the Red Wing 875 and the J Crew/Red Wing collab; I like the look of the J Crew boot better, but I'm not sure if the Vibram sole would be the best on ice. Any thoughts?

[fattybfat]

^ the crepe sole on 875 will definately make you fell over and over and over again on ice. The traction on the collab should be much better than the crepe sole.

[fre-co]

Regarding C&J sizing questions:

For my C&J skyes I had to size up a half to UK9 because the width was a bit narrow for me. They only make them in E width (which is the same as D in the USA).

I wear a US9e in semi-dress, US8.5eee or US9e in indies and UK8.5F in trickers. I'd say most of the northampton shoemakers UK sizes are half bigger than the US

[fre-co]

regarding the trickers cordovan: they seem to dye it into all sorts of odd colours there, I've seen blue, green and red. It doesn't say 'shell' cordovan though. So it is definitely horse but whether it is horses ass I don't know....

[GregNYC]

I got the black Indies last week. Nice! The black cotton laces are heavier and easier to work with than the brown ones on the standard Indy. Hope to have some denim pics soon!!

One thing - they have me wondering how to polish them so that (i) they can be as shiny as the old Army veteran in me likes, and (2) I can keep the welt and stitching from going all black. You can go only so far with neutral polish....

[coleslawyum]

One thing - they have me wondering how to polish them so that (i) they can be as shiny as the old Army veteran in me likes, and (2) I can keep the welt and stitching from going all black. You can go only so far with neutral polish....

Welcome back Greg! I imagine with black polish and done very carefully…

[tahonng]

Masking tape? Or painter's tape, maybe?

[emmitbrown]

Masking tape on the welt for sure.

Were you talking about the stitching around the toe box? If so, good luck.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

maybe wax the threads so the polish doesn't penetrate?

or uh...

hmmn...

good luck!

[captain5640]

So, as winter approaches I figure it's time to get a new pair of boots. I like the look of the W&H Service boots, but they are out of my price range. I looked at Frye Sid's and Brando's so far, but have only just begun searching so I would like some input on other brands from the more knowledgeable on SuFu. Also, what are some opinions on leather soles in the winter? I live somewhere where we frequently get snow and there is usually some ice on the ground.

[robin]

I live somewhere where we frequently get snow and there is usually some ice on the ground.

Find something with a rubber/vibram sole, leather's not going to work out well.

[emmitbrown]

I was going to suggest that as well, because I remember my dad doing that, but I'm not sure what he did to clean the stiches once you are finished. I fell like you need some luck either way.

maybe wax the threads so the polish doesn't penetrate?

or uh...

hmmn...

good luck!

[Ichiran]

^I've been trying to get by with the neutral wax polish, despite the well-known "caking" problem (and then just using black wax polish to touch up scuffs). Although lately, I've been thinking about switching to neutral cream polish, since I'm not as picky about my boots being super-shiny. (Or, you could say that I'm more picky about keeping the stitching white than about keeping the boots perfectly polished!) If you get any black polish where you don't want it to go, here are a couple of links that have been helpful to me in the past:

How to remove shoe polish?

Removing shoe polish

[fattybfat]

regarding the trickers cordovan: they seem to dye it into all sorts of odd colours there, I've seen blue, green and red. It doesn't say 'shell' cordovan though. So it is definitely horse but whether it is horses ass I don't know....

so which has a thicker leather? The cordovan or the calfskin?

also, is cordovan more water repellent than calf?

[captain5640]

Find something with a rubber/vibram sole, leather's not going to work out well.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking from past experiences. I'll continue to search.

[rodeo bill]

^^ there are 2 things to consider if you;re thinking about leather soles on ice and snow. One is the slippery factor, which I've found is workable (not ideal) after the soles have been roughed up a bit. The other is waterproofing- leather soles do let water in eventually, and if you're out all day in rain or slush it can get really uncomfortable, and it doesn;t do the shoes any good either... Double leather would be a lot better for that I guess, although i've never had them

[Supawiwi]

Question for those who know a bit about Tricker's.

Is there any difference between the Ripon and the Burford except for the leather?

And what is the particularity of the Gorse Calf they use on the Ripon?

Seems a bit thicker than the regular one used on the Burford but is it oiled leather?

[GregNYC]

How to polish the black Indies???

I imagine with black polish and done very carefully…

Masking tape? Or painter's tape, maybe?

Masking tape on the welt for sure. Were you talking about the stitching around the toe box? If so, good luck.

You know, I'm thinking of just letting these go, see what happens if I polish them like normal. Tape is what I'd have to use, and it sounds like a lot of work. I know that done with care, it will work. But a lot of work.

I've got a few coats of Meltonian Leather Lotion and #170 Delicate Cream, but I'm gonna start putting on black just like regular, and see what happens.... If I avoid that work, then down the road I foresee a choice between 2 different looks:

1. Unpolished like Indiana's, with natural welt and contrasting stitching, but beaten up leather surface.

2. Polished like my other boots, but with darkened threads and welt.

I tend to prefer (2)!

[GregNYC]

The other is waterproofing- leather soles do let water in eventually, and if you're out all day in rain or slush it can get really uncomfortable, and it doesn;t do the shoes any good either... Double leather would be a lot better for that I guess, although i've never had them

Hikers and skiers use Sno Seal and other waxes and oils for the soles, dating back to the days when lots of boots had leather soles...

[emmitbrown]

1. Unpolished like Indiana's, with natural welt and contrasting stitching, but beaten up leather surface.

2. Polished like my other boots, but with darkened threads and welt.

I tend to prefer (2)!

I'd go with 1, myself. If I had Indys in any color, I would let them get beat up seeing that they are more of a work wear boot, but I know you like the shine. So polish right over the contrast stitching.

[the Repeater]

Maybe secret option #3 would be to just not use any wax polish, and only use something like Meltonian leather balm?

Doesn't get quite as shiny as wax, but to a rich semi-gloss without the darkening to any thread or sole....?

Surely you might let go of your stubbornness and old habits for one pair of shoes..?

[GregNYC]

Maybe secret option #3 would be to just not use any wax polish, and only use something like Meltonian leather balm?

Doesn't get quite as shiny as wax, but to a rich semi-gloss without the darkening to any thread or sole....?

Surely you might let go of your stubbornness and old habits for one pair of shoes..?

I'm doing something a lot like that now with the two substances I mentioned, which actually give an OK shine. The #170 is what the shoe shine folks in NYC use for spit-shines. What these things don't do is cover up scratches or supply any kind of dye. Knowing I can't go back from the black Kiwi, I'll try this for as long as I can!

[slt]

so which has a thicker leather? The cordovan or the calfskin?

also, is cordovan more water repellent than calf?

My cordovans, Crockett & Jones for Polo RL:

Compared to my calfskin shoes, the leather migth generally be slightly thicker, but it's not much of a difference, and I have at least a couple of pairs of calfskins where leather is just as thick as the cordovans.

Side by side with the C&J Conniston (they are on the same last, 325):

Shell cordovan is generally considered more water repellent than calfskin.

I had a look at the Tricker's you mentioned earlier, and if they are really shell cordovan and without serious faults, then they are extremely cheap, almost suspiciously so

[Tarmac]

My cordovans, Crockett & Jones for Polo RL:

I just got a pair of these myself. Awesome shoes

You have the UK Conistons and the RLs on the same last, what are the marked sizes of each?

[slt]

I just got a pair of these myself. Awesome shoes

You have the UK Conistons and the RLs on the same last, what are the marked sizes of each?

The Coniston (you're right, no double n) is 8E and the RL is 8.5E

As far as I remember, the US 'normal width' fitting is D, which means the RL is a slightly wide fitting in US terms.

With a D fitting, it would have been necessary, for me at least, to have gone up to a US 9.

[fattybfat]

slt:

thanks, so are there different type of cordovan?

i dont think they are shell cordovan because of it didnt specifically say so. It said genuine cordovan? Dont know the difference between shell and genuine.

So, if it is just regular cordovan, it just means horse leather?

[slt]

Another C&J for RL Polo:

Side by side with the C&J Belgrave, both on the 337 last:

Again the RL is a US 8.5E and the Belgrave is a UK 8E

[fattybfat]

slt

the captoe are the RL? when you get it, is it beechnut color?

[slt]

slt:

thanks, so are there different type of cordovan?

i dont think they are shell cordovan because of it didnt specifically say so.

So, if it is just regular cordovan, it just means horse leather?

Well, I'm actually not one to say that for sure.

As far as i remember, the usual Northampton term for shell cordovan is 'crup', not 'krupp', but that could of course just be a local variation, and I'm not sure that it's something conclusive regarding the leather.

I think that normally shell cordovans from Northampton would retail at £350 - £400, and of course Lobb's or Green's somewhat more (if they make them). The C&J's are mostly around £390, so a starting price of £100 seems almost to good to be true for real shell, which could lead one to believe that they are horse leather, but not actually shell cordovan.

I guess you could ask the seller a direct question about it.

[slt]

slt

the captoe are the RL? when you get it, is it beechnut color?

No, the captoe is the regular C&J Belgrave, and the color is chestnut.

The RL is called Alton.