Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Sansome1877]

To bad it's not easy to read, I know the 1901 catalog says 25 years the standard.

[Paul T]

I think I've seen a photo of the Japanese example - Dr Heech might have posted it. Maybe post on the LVC thread??

[Sansome1877]

I think I've seen a photo of the Japanese example - Dr Heech might have posted it. Maybe post on the LVC thread??

Yea if an example exists I would bet it's in Japan, I think I might put that jacket on my lists of things to try and find?

[Madder_Lake]

Amazing photo — that is one serious guy!

[Paul T]

I might cultivate a 'tache like that for the ROY contest. Sure to earn me extra cred

[DrMoBueno]

I thought it was Dennis Hopper...

[Madder_Lake]

I thought it was Dennis Hopper...

Agreed! I thought so too. Could almost be a direct ancestor!

[bluegoldblues]

BBC two right now

"American Dream"

lots of denim workwear

sure to be on iplayer.

[Sansome1877]

BBC two right now

"American Dream"

lots of denim workwear

sure to be on iplayer.

Thanks for pointing out the program, I only get BBC America so I wasn't playing on that channel today. Will look for it on iplayer.

[Sansome1877]

I might cultivate a 'tache like that for the ROY contest. Sure to earn me extra cred

Extra credit? It would be a good look!

[Joseph Hill]

I just got the book, thanks big time Mike. I had high expectations, and they were easily surpassed. I am much better with concepts than details, but this book is really helping me get the dates and details down pat. Not only does it look fantastic (great pictures), but the scholarship is impressive as well. It is really a credit to your work. I can't wait for the follow-up.

[Sansome1877]

Excellent! Look forward to the photo.

It's an amazing job you are doing.

Sorry it took so long to post the rivet on this boot, thanks for the kind words Joseph!

[eltopo]

Mike awesome post as usual. Another fit photo of my dusty AB's.

www.banditphotographer.com

[Sansome1877]

Thought some people might want this information, my wife pointed out a while ago, the older 1870's rivets have small lettering compared to the late 1880's rivets. I checked all of my 1870's levi pieces and they all have the small lettering. Eltopo thanks for the fit pictures!!

[Paul T]

Fabulous rivets pics, thanks. I love the old, small lettering.

AS the person who helped contribute to the fashion for hand-hammering rivets for the older, flat look, it's worth pointing out that all Levi's rivets up to the 1920s were done on a machine, and the tops are quite even. If you're flattening them yourself, one good tap is the way.

[Sansome1877]

Fabulous rivets pics, thanks. I love the old, small lettering.

AS the person who helped contribute to the fashion for hand-hammering rivets for the older, flat look, it's worth pointing out that all Levi's rivets up to the 1920s were done on a machine, and the tops are quite even. If you're flattening them yourself, one good tap is the way.

Has one of those rivet machines ever surfaced?

[Paul T]

Not to my knowledge. ANd I only know this from speaking to Lynn; she believes that the rivets themselves didn't change in 1925 or whenever it was, merely the way of applying them. I am ready to admit I know nothing at all about riveting machines - in fact, to be accurate, it's likely that the earlier rivets used a die, rather than a specific machine, as I think you can see variation in the top between the rivets on one pair of jeans.

[Joseph Hill]

In my antique rummaging, I have come across turn of the century (or so) tack riveters. It's not a big machine, but a little handheld, articulated device. They are not the modern pull through nail style, but squish them with a die. I've seen roundish dies, and one with a center pin (probably helped keep the rivet post from slumping to the side). I don't know how they did it at Levis, but we may be trying to imagine a bigger, more "industrial" environment than was in actuality.

[rodeo bill]

^^that sounds like sense to me! after all this was all an evolution from horse-blanket riveters right? so I'd guess it'd be more the equivalent of this kind of thing:

is this the sort of device you're talking about JH? given that this would work fine for small level production it would presumably have taken a while for orders to become big enough to be worth inventing new machinery?

incidentally for those that don't know how a basic kick riveter works I just put up some pictures on the last page of the Tender Co thread;)

edit- or of course, as any (ex) fashion student knows, could it have been more like one of these horrible things?:

[Sansome1877]

Not to my knowledge. ANd I only know this from speaking to Lynn; she believes that the rivets themselves didn't change in 1925 or whenever it was, merely the way of applying them. I am ready to admit I know nothing at all about riveting machines - in fact, to be accurate, it's likely that the earlier rivets used a die, rather than a specific machine, as I think you can see variation in the top between the rivets on one pair of jeans.

I think your correct about a die, my father in law thinks that a hammer and some kind of tool was used. I think I will do a rivet study, I have been looking real close at all of my rivets and I am hard pressed to find any dimples on the center post, of any of my 1870's rivets? I will start with this single 1880 Levi rivet, it looks like a tool mark on the center post? Rodeo thanks for your input, that tool you posted is something to consider. Joseph sure would like to see some of those tools that you have come across! Thanks for the smokes Joseph, very NICE!!!!

[Sansome1877]

I took my 1874-75 waist band, I photographed the 5 remaining rivets on the piece. You can see a photo of this waist band on page 25(jeans of the old west, top photo)

[Sansome1877]

First world war era, Levi rivet.

[Sansome1877]

[Sansome1877]

[entertainment!]

amazing stuff

can't wait for the second book

[rnrswitch]

Sansome, love the pics man. Ain't nothin like some nice macros of hardware. You should post those pics in the hardware thread. A genius started that thread I heard.

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=160746

[Sansome1877]

Sansome, love the pics man. Ain't nothin like some nice macros of hardware. You should post those pics in the hardware thread. A genius started that thread I heard.

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=160746

No problem.

[Dr_Heech]

Mike

Echoing what rnr and entertainment have said -

cracking close-up shots of those early rivets.

What did the world of denim-nuts do before this thread (and your book of course)? Love that first world war rivet particularly.

When are you starting the follow-up book (1890-1922, wasn't it?)

.

[Sansome1877]

Mike

Echoing what rnr and entertainment have said -

cracking close-up shots of those early rivets.

What did the world of denim-nuts do before this thread (and your book of course)? Love that first world war rivet particularly.

When are you starting the follow-up book (1890-1922, wasn't it?)

.

Thanks Heech, book is going to be from 1860 to 1925, we have trippled our information since the first book. Second book will be complete in about 4 months, the Levi chapter is going to be huge(40 plus pairs and tons of new information) I found that pair that you wanted pictures of, I will send the pictures tomorrow.

[Sansome1877]