J. Crew's New Raw Denim

[aho]

I'm just saying...Ralph Lauren started out that way as well but look at them now...RRL...

[dino might]

J Crew has really stepped up their game in the last two years. Find a pair of J Crew chinos from 2006 and compare them to what you can pick up in the store today and you'll be impressed. However, the denim commitment, in my opinion, is misplaced. J Crew's success is rooted in a certain WASPy/trad aesthetic. The store's bread and butter is affordable mid-quality chinos and button-down shirts. Everything else is sort of perefrial. I'm sure they sell a hell of a lot of denim, but real denimheads, the ones that care about selvage, are not going to J Crew or The Gap for their gear. Now, they'll sell some selvage to guys who read about it on the internet. Those dudes, however, fall into two categories: The guy who bites hard and moves on to more obscure pieces or the dude that's wearing the-next-big-thing in a year. Also, the price point of mid-$200s is high for J Crew-labeled gear -- clothes nerd won't bite and mall-shoppers won't pay that much. Thus, it's more of a vanity project. It'll give the chain some cred -- it'll get them another write up on ACL. In the end, however, their cred and respect from those in the know was always rooted more in delivering a decent polo than from fetish denim.

i work at j. crew and i could not agree with cash any more.

its such a love/hate relationship with me. i have probably near 10 button ups from j. crew that i wear the hell out of, their "vintage" chinos (though i abhor their flagrant use of the word "vintage" in what seems like at least half their garments) are cut nicely, comfortable, and one of my favorite pairs of non-denim pants to live in, but like cash said, thats where my appreciation ends and my disrespect begins.

anyone on this board that knows their shit decently enough (probably 95% when comparing to the general public tool bags) knows that j. crew is late as fuck on these collabs and "legit" garments like their raw selvage heavily overpriced denim and all that jazz. really? a warehouse collab? now joe shmoe on the street is forever going to remember j. crew and gq or some shit introducing him to one of the "latest greatest" brands in japanese denim, or fine leather soled shoes, and so on and so forth, when in reality the design team is full of a bunch of geezers who just woke up 4 years later. next fall theres even a crescent down works collab.

i understand i suppose, the general public is ignorant and j. crew is capitalizing on that at just the right moment, but id like to see their popularity a few yrs from now when they cant manage to dupe even the guys whove been living under rocks for the past coupla years.

stick to what you do best and do it better than anyone else is just how i feel, and being someone in the know i just cant help but feel a little insulted by it all

[Tassadar]

I'm actually curious about this. Any new updates?

[lostinthesupermarket]

a warehouse collab? now joe shmoe on the street is forever going to remember j. crew and gq or some shit introducing him to one of the "latest greatest" brands in japanese denim, or fine leather soled shoes, and so on and so forth, when in reality the design team is full of a bunch of geezers who just woke up 4 years later. next fall theres even a crescent down works collab.

Designers don't run brands like J Crew; accountants do. It's the same in any volume based business.

I'm pretty sure that at least some of J. Crew's designers know their denim, but they don't get to call any shots. Occasionally they get allowed to do something like this on a small scale for publicity purposes, but that's it. The future of the company is certainly never put in their hands.

The only reason projects like this are seeing the light of day is that J. Crew's current business strategy involves the cultivation of the idea amongst the general public that they are a design driven business.The suits are happy to run with ideas like this because it doesn't cost much and it makes it easier to sell MIC chinos to the masses at a 200% margin.

The money tied up in stuff like the Liquor Store or this Warehouse collab. should be seen as part of their marketing budget, nothing more. It doesn't change their business model. These guys need to sell a huge quantity of pants to even stand still. They have serious corporate overhead to cover. Artisanal Japanese denim at 300 dollars a time is not gonna do it.

However ,the fact that they offer it,even on a very restricted basis, means that they get props in the press and on the blogs, which helps keep the third world stuff moving out the door and the shareholders happy.

[dino might]

^ Im not arguin otherwise, what you say is all very true but it's not what I'm getting at. Just because it's profitable and what's good for such a big business doesn't at all mean it's good nor really justified in respect to legitimacy, though Its a good point for you to have mentioned.

At the end of the day, getting hyped and hopes up about such a big business being authentic tride and true to what it pushes is like a little kid getting psyched over santa claus, misplaced and false expectations, just have to be wise enough to take it for what it is and that's all

[lostinthesupermarket]

I totally agree with you.

I dunno......philosophically, many American manufacturers seem to have lost their way. There was a time when they were driven to make the best product they possibly could. Everything was over-engineered( I mean that in a good sense). Now that approach is as rare as hen's teeth, It's sad and it's mostly due to the need to produce better and better financial results every quarter.

Long-term, though, cutting corners doesn't make sense. All you are doing is devaluing your brand. I guess the accountants that seem to be running fucking everything these days figure that by the time that happens, they'll be long gone.

I'm from Europe and it's pretty much the same deal over here.

I guess what I'm saying is have some mercy on the design guys. They are probably as frustrated about a lot of the shit that goes on as the rest of us....and as much in love with quality clothing.

[grooveholmes]

accountants and lawyers rule the world. and more recently, the porn industry.

[RAM1988]

1. accountants absolutely do not rule the world.. they have zero control over capital allocation. zero. financiers run shit; and maybe legislators and attorneys as well.

2. as a total newb, I don't expect anyone to really give a shit about my opinion, and conveniently, I've got no problem with that dynamic. nonetheless, after reading so many references to j. crew over the past few weeks of being in sufu and sf, I'm compelled to share my thoughts.

For a cohort that embraces an aesthetic (for denim specifically and fashion generally) that can be characterized as premium, often (if not usually) obscure, and perhaps (but certainly not deliberately) pretentious, the loyalty for j. crew confounds me. On the one hand, we have these obscure, almost "underground," Japanese denim houses that are tightly-managed within a design-centric, quality-first ethos.. if we're lucky, we can get info on the next season's collection from someone like kiya, gordon, or someone who can at least translate for us. Names like flat head spend years (allegedly) coming up with the perfect denim or fabric, nothing less is acceptable. Meanwhile, publicly-trading J. Crew's only priority is its fiduciary responsibilities to maximize profits for the benefit of its shareholders. Beyond that, the j. crew tradition of preppy/waspy/mainstream as fuck/whatever seems so far removed from anything that is samurai, eternal, etc, etc. why not open the door to banana republic, brooks brothers, a&f, express, etc?

consider my perspective. working in investment banking, I'm the first to embrace capitalism and everything from which it derives. I just have trouble reconciling the shared acceptance of the japanese/workwear/etc trends with something that is hogwarts-preppy in design and mediocre quality from outsourced manufacturing.

apologies for any incoherence, just returned from the bars. cheers.

[lostinthesupermarket]

Good rant! I'm not that coherent after a night on the tiles....

I think your disagreement with me ( if there is one) is largely semantic though, no?

[Maynard Friedman]

Good rant! I'm not that coherent after a night on the tiles....

I think your disagreement with me ( if there is one) is largely semantic though, no?

True, the decisions made by the company executives and/or financiers is largely based on information provided by the accountants (both management and financial).

[RAM1988]

@lost yes semantics indeed.

@maynard you're right, in this singular corporate context the acct information or management information systems is supreme. Last night I was thinkin bout running shit in a macro-framework.

[grooveholmes]

True, the decisions made by the company executives and/or financiers is largely based on information provided by the accountants (both management and financial).

Exactly. I think we're all on the same page here. The accountants and lawyers interpret data for the executives/financiers. It's a necessary handcuff. Speaking of, they're also surfing for porn on the clock. E.g.

[RAM1988]

haha nicely done.

[chantheman]

http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Navigation/Men.jsp

5 guys breaking in raw denim for 6 months to see what method is best...

[DaBestSpoona]

Not impressed

[robgotsastaplerr]

Not impressed

well its not really meant to impress you or the people on this board anyway...

[-Z-]

i'm always keen on the idea of publicizing raw denim...for me its fun to see it sprinkled throughout more conventional media or mainstream brands. The only thing that I don't understand (which has been discussed throughly on this thread already, i'm just stating it as a fact) is the $225 price tag. that IS very steep for a denim with no real story or appeal other than its classification as "raw", therefore it is immediately "better" and more expensive.

I'm not saying it is better or worse than denim from any other brand, but it seems to pull a premium price for the wrong reasons...(still they know people will pay the money for it, and for that reason alone, it makes perfect sense from a money making perspective. I have no problems with that at all. capitalism baby.)

[PeterParker]

http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Navigation/Men.jsp

5 guys breaking in raw denim for 6 months to see what method is best...

Some of those jeans look like one-wash jeans. Half of them only wore the jeans 3 days a week, so really they've only been worn for 3 months. Most of that time was probably spent sitting at a desk.

Those cuffs look so awful I can't imagine any of them wore them like that for 6 months. It's like someone in marketing instructed them to turn them up during the photoshoot, just to show the "selvedge" or to get that "old school" look. The jeans that aren't cuffed could have used a hem; besides, I thought J. Crew had one of those fancy chainstitching machines (or is that only available for those Warehouse jeans they're selling?)

The guy claiming his jeans look two years old clearly hasn't visited this thread:

Denim worn over 2 years

Also, peep all the Aldens sold by J. Crew.

Weak shit.

[rnrswitch]

I don't mind what they are doing there, but it just gets me that these dudes for some reason still pull 6months as an arbitrary amount of time to wear your jeans. It is like Nudies set the mark and a lot of the "new to the raw" fad have bit that hook, line, and sinker. (I did when I was new to this shit. So I guess I can't blame them.)

I like those alden cap toes. Both of the dudes who are wearing the shell shoes look like they have put some good miles on them.

For the most part none of those dudes jeans look all that well, but I would kill to have this going on at my work place.

Jack's shoes look nice, and Jandro's steez is pretty good.

And I still can't stand the selvedge line on the coin pocket. It is like the biggest marketing gimmick. Just a little flash so that the rest of the "in-crowd" can tell that you are down as well.

[ch00ber]

http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Navigation/Men.jsp

5 guys breaking in raw denim for 6 months to see what method is best...

my favorite lines from the slideshow

"Each jean is individually numbered and comes in its own cool storage bag."

[chantheman]

i knew this would drum up conversation. keep it up everyone.

i cant lie im curious to see the cool storage bag

[Alex3000]

6 months is getting old, you think they would up to a year at least..

[jyoni]

Wow, they should have gone longer with that. I'm sure with time those jeans would fade decently, if they are of at least decent quality. I don't see how someone unfamiliar with the fading properties of denim, would necessarily be compelled to make the jump from looking at those results. The potential just isn't being showcased. They could have at least thrown a more physical employee in the mix, someone from shipping or maintenance for example.

[PandaXS]

jyoni im cosigning. i really think they need people better documentation of the jeans as well. like true sufu pics.

[jyoni]

Yeah, more wear with an evo flipbook, instead of fetishizing every tiniest nascent fade with close-ups. I'm actually surprised they didn't seek out places like this to crib ideas.

[DaBestSpoona]

too bad jcrew japan is no longer around, their SAs would have put these guys to shame.

[HoustonChris]

Sniff... sniff.... what's that I smell? Mmmmm, fresh marketing gimmickry. I love the smell of a new ad campaign.

Every single one of those guys looks like they've been professionally styled for the photo shoot to look like what J.Crew's target demographic (middle aged suburban yuppies) thinks designers, stylists and buyers should look like.

For me, the money quote comes from Eric when he's talking about his so-called "two years old" looking jeans: "You've got to earn it, son." Seriously? Does J.Crew even sell clothes that aren't preworn, prewashed, predistressed and "vintage"? The company's entire ethos is selling stuff that looks like you've had it for years, without all that pesky work of having actually owed/worn it for years.

J.Crew is still the Applebee's of clothing; indistinguishable from all the other middle of the road stores in the mall.

[tlieu]

Why are people hating on J.Crew and companies collaborating with J.Crew??? If you fools started an independent clothing company and J.Crew offered to collab, I'm sure you'll jump on it! Why? Money talks no matter where you came from or who you are. End of story!

[chantheman]

i dont think theres a lot of hate on the companies collaborating with jcrew. i think most of the negativity comes from the prices they are charging for their collabs or their raw denim line they started which was the original source of this thread. lately the talk has been about their 6 month evo project they are marketing which shows hardly any noticeable wear for 6 months

[HoustonChris]

@tlieu, you're absolutely right; if I had an independent clothing company and J.Crew came knocking on my door, I'd jump all over it. Turning away a major clothing brand with a proven track record of success over decades would be dumb. Likewise, I'm not hating on J.Crew for making solid business decisions and trying to cater to and/or anticipate the desires of its clientele.

What I'm bothered by is the disingenuousness of this particular ad campaign. It seems to be stressing the rewards of putting time and effort into wearing a pair of raw jeans in order to get a great fit and appearance, yet at the same time, the vast majority of the clothes J.Crew sells are the antithesis of that attitude. It seems to me that J.Crew is essentially saying, "buy a pair of raw jeans and wear them every day for a year, then they'll go perfectly with our broken in chino shirt, vintage washed tee, aged leather belt and distressed Jack Purcells."

Don't try to convince me that I should pay more to break in clothes myself when you clearly don't believe it. That's what I'm hating on.