Leepro Appreciation

[Dr_Heech]

there's currently a 101z on ebay - '50s riders crotch rivet':

here

haven't seen many of these before, though warehouse had a 'clotch' rivet 101z a while ago - that totally sold out:

here

the bidding for the ebay item is also slightly unusual; went from $20 to $102.50 through automatic bidding in one go - only a day into the listing and someone decides to bid $80 above the previous bid?

anyway, i wonder whether this is a vintage 'crotch' rivet jean, or 'clotch' rivet repro...

Imo the ebayer -Sid-vintage is a top bloke, been doing this for years. He know's his stuff and I doubt he would be fooled..

They look legit to me. Crownzip, Fardin or paul would know for sure.

.

[colgems1966]

hey dr. i really appreciate the info. i just joined and had picture requests on the LVC forum too. i'm not hosting any at present and i'll have to start from scratch. i've been both busy and lazy, but i'll get it done soon. i just recently sold a nos blue bell wrangler 11 mjz in size 46. the SR, a late 60's pair of 101b's and a 50's pair of bbw 11mwz are the only originals i have left. i have 3 prs. lee japan and 17 prs. of LVC.

[lostinthesupermarket]

I don't think they're less "authentic." LVC seem to have imprived their game recently but some of the Edwin-made product is every bit as good, and better than some.

(But what does authetnic mean? My nipper's 60s 302 just popped a rivet, the stitching is all over the place and the denim has shown no sign of any wear whatsoever)

I agree that the concept of "authenticity" is a fairly vexed one but I think that at least some of the LVC models (like the 55) plug straight into Levi's heritage (...same cotton, same denim mill, same blocks, made in the USA etc.) in a way that is never going to be possible for a pair of Lee's that are contructed in Japan out of Japanese denim.

In a way I see the Japanese Lee's as being kind of idealization of what vintage denim is like....or what I imagine it's like.

Never having worn a pair of old Lee's, I take Crownzip's point about being asked by vintage collectors whether his Edwin's are originals. They certainly evoke the feeling I imagine i would get from wearing a pair of deadstock originals.I think they've done a great job of capturing a certain vibe with them....but in a way I think their origin makes them a different type of artifact than a pair of LVC '55s.

Apologies to everyone if this comes over as pretentious....not my intention.

[crownzip]

Here's a quick shot of the '44 Edwin Lee's. These are the Edwins that fool collectors the most. The fading of the all cotton thread is very much like the originals including the thread breaking in areas that get a lot of wear. Also denim is fading very similar to vintage Lees.

[lostinthesupermarket]

Those look great. I love those shades of blue. Very distinctive. It's also amzing how much the denim comes alive through wear. Mine looked pretty flat when new.

The thread fading is one of my favourite things about my 1930's The inseam on them is stitched with black thread which has faded out to a really nice grey-brown and the orange thread has really dulled-down.

I love the details on the Lee Japan repros.

[fardin]

those look great grant, thanks for posting. its incredible how nice those lee fade. i also love the different hsades of blue on my lees.

i still would like to know more about the difference in the edwin made lees and the real mccoys. so whats your opinion grant, since you also have the 101B from rmc?

[colgems1966]

i have that same 44' model Grant has. really beautiful denim and soft. i've never encountered denim as soft as those 44's. you could make pajamas out of em'. these are a very high quality repro. as much as i hate to say it IMO more accurate and better made than LVC. i love LVC but it's the truth as i see it. btw hi Grant G. i remember you from the old flight jackets etc. board from about 10yrs. back. that was a lively thread. LOL

[crownzip]

Thanks Fardin, I really like both the '44 Edwin Lee's and the Real McCoy's 50's Lee's but there definitely are differences. The denim RMC used is super dark and will take years to fade but you can tell from the start they're really going to be beautiful. The denim is also a heavier weight compared to the Edwin '44's and feels heftier.The 50's Lee's are cut slightly trimmer fitting in the seat and legs compared to the' 44 Lees and gives a more slim cut very much like the Lee's James Dean wore.

Colgems, glad to hear your rocking the '44's Lee's as well. Couldn't agree with you more about the Edwin Lee's looking like more faithful reproductions than LVC. I too like my LVC's but there's the attention to detail that Edwin and Real McCoy's puts them a notch above. Just MHO.

[colgems1966]

yeah Grant, i'm in no way slagging LVC but those edwin lees to me fade identical to the originals. they use all-cotton thread and have better detailing. i have 44's, 37's and 52's. in terms of quality, attention to detail comparison to originals to me the 1944's are standouts. that being said i still have more than 5 times as many LVC because of ease of availibility, affordability and to me they look better on and integrate a little better into modern life. that being said my 44 lees have the softest and best character denim, even more than my 555 201's.

[Happy Hooligan]

do they still make the edwin Lee 44?

I'd like that to be my first Lee pair... they have all the features I want...

[crownzip]

Hey colgems, it's be cool to see photos of some of your Lee's.

Have you seen the Real McCoy's 50's Lee's? They really exceptional.

[colgems1966]

only on the internet Grant, they are way beyond what i usually spend. for an idea 44's $99 37's $50 52 archives $150. i am well stocked and usually only buy when the price is right. the most i have ever spent is $230 for lvc japan 66's and that's including shipping.

Happy i don't think they make them anymore/ check ebay that's where i got mine but it was in 2007. oh and one thing the back pockets on the 44 are very small and widely spaced so be aware of that.---some don't like it.

[colgems1966]

Grant i had a few picture requests. my sole exp. with a camera is loading pics on ebay and to an e-mail attachment.a member was kind enough to send instructions how to do it but i've been lazy plus i'm a technological dumbass. i'm sure i'll get around to it tho as it would add value to my posts.

[crownzip]

do they still make the edwin Lee 44?

I'd like that to be my first Lee pair... they have all the features I want...

Hey Happy, Looks like you can still get them from Japan but I noticed Aero no longer carries them. I bought mine years ago from Ken at Aero.

[colgems1966]

hey Grant i wasn't sure but i thought the 44 had been out of production for awhile. btw i really like your 42's. i'd love to have a pair of those.

[Happy Hooligan]

I actually bought my first LVC's from Ken years ago...

So what Lee's are out now I can buy and are the best they make as of today?

[colgems1966]

Happy, to me all the japanese LEE's are good jeans. a cut above LVC IMO for reasons stated earlier. if you like a slim cut the 52 101z's are good if you like an earlier buckleback with a looser cut the 37's are good also. those are what i have first hand experience with. i only know the Edwins. others can tell you about McCoy's but they're more expensive. btw get your measured size before ordering. LEE's have almost as many sizing variables as LVC.

[SLAB]

need some advise

planning to pick up my first Lee repro sometime in the next couple of months;

need to choose between the 1930 cowboy (with suspender buttons), 1942 (with upside arcs) or the 50's zipper cut.

I'd love a pair that fades differently from most of my other denim. any of these 3 models have a greenish fade/color?

[fardin]

the 42 and the 50s do have a greenish fade. the 1930s is lighter in color then the others. and the 42 does not exist with the arcs anymore.

wow it seems like lee japan is discontinuing the 44. thats a surprize, and what a shame.

[CrashTestBrummie]

Shame, I was quite taken with the 42...

Still, I've enough denim for a while but still tempted to invest in another pair of Lees.

[SLAB]

yeah, there are still some places where you can buy the 42's but guess it won't last much longer

[fardin]

true there are some places, but the sizes are limited.

[crownzip]

Fardin, just noticed both the '42's and '44's are no longer available in my sizes from japan.

Do you own any edwin Lee's?

[fardin]

yes i do own edwin lees. the 101b 1930, 1942, two 101z 52s and the 101B 1959. although i am in the roy contest, i still have to get the 44s before they are gone for good. i always thought the real mccoys 101b was also a 1940s repro. warehouse still hase some 40s 101b´s. still the new WWII repro also looks fine, pity the arcs are gone though

[Dr_Heech]

yes i do own edwin lees. the 101b 1930, 1942, two 101z 52s and the 101B 1959. although i am in the roy contest, i still have to get the 44s before they are gone for good. i always thought the real mccoys 101b was also a 1940s repro. warehouse still hase some 40s 101b´s. still the new WWII repro also looks fine, pity the arcs are gone though

Fardin

I have a pic of a pair of wartime 101's with no arcs - will try and dig it out for you.

I know the denim on the 42's is great, but surely no one wants the upside down arcs anyway?

.

[fardin]

i want them,haha. and this guy likes it too

[crownzip]

Fardin, great photo. I dig the upside down arcuates too!

[Dr_Heech]

Well, everyone to their own, but imo those upside-down arcs are whack.

The waistband patch is great though, as it is the crossover from the hair on hide type and the later'44/45 type.

The denim looks to fade great though!

[almostnice]

good fit,crownzip!

if my sz 32 roys will fit anything near that,i am a happy chap.

[fardin]

great pic, grant. the denim looks so special on the 42s. the new denim looks different.