Levi Going "Green"/Organic

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Capitalism could have also paid their parents a little more than what they were being paid. This would have also solved the problem of having to force children to work to put food on the table. Hell, if they would have paid them even more maybe those kids could go to college.

No they could not. Sure, every company could have given their employees 50% higher salaries. Then that cost would have been added to the price of the product. The difference in real wages would have been 0%.

If you remove profits you also stop the production of pretty much everything. What did the romans ever do for us?

Not to mention that if companies could own rivers, ponds, etc. they would do so only so they could pollute them.

This is true if people have no interest in the outdoors. No one goes hiking, skiing, camping etc. Wait, is that true? No, and therefore it is profitable to provide a place for these activities, and this is why no profit driven company would destroy their property.

If someone had owned that creek then that company would not have been allowed to dump waste in it. Well, maybe for $1 million, but I'm betting that would not have been profitable. What do you think?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

where will they work? lower paying jobs? not everyone in the us is able to go to college and get a high paying job. shit, if i didnt marry into my job id be working fast food or some shit like that.

i guess we could just be the people pulling the strings, controlling the world economy, but there isnt space for everyone there. the poor in this country will get poorer and the rich will get richer

Where they would work, one of those 60 million jobs maybe? Delta Airlines saved 25 millions by outsourcing 1000 call center jobs, and after that they hired 1200 salesmen. Which job do you think pays best? The new jobs are not minimum wage jobs. 1.8% of americans are working for minimum wage and most of those are students working part time.

There will always be jobs that pay the worst. Equal wage for unequal work effort is not realistic or feasible. Unless you want to pay the same price for an orange as for a new car. Now go convine the rest of the world that they do too.

[cheapmuthafukr]

what percent of americans are making a living wage? enough to be able to support a family, buy a house, and be healthy.

[implicit]

"This is why someone needs to own the seas, lakes, forrests etc."

That's one of the most horrible things I think I've ever read.

[cheapmuthafukr]

i have a feeling this will be trashed as soon as a mod decides to check it out...........

[horriblyjollyjinx]

"This is why someone needs to own the seas, lakes, forrests etc."

That's one of the most horrible things I think I've ever read.

Sure, it's much worse than hearing that millions of africans die every year because you want to buy the most expensive, uneconomical food that you can find. I think what you implied is horrible. Why do you want africans to die?

People or corporations owning a piece of nature would be horrible if you changed the way the world works. But in this world, you're allowed to enter stores owned by someone else and you're allowed to enjoy the goods in the store. You're not allowed to litter in or destroy the store though.

The same would apply to nature. You're already paying for the nature through taxes. Why not pay upfront when 'using' the nature instead?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

what percent of americans are making a living wage?

Everyone who is employed and doesn't starve to death.

enough to be able to support a family, buy a house, and be healthy.

Could you please be more specific? How much should the house cost, how many children should that family have, how many cars, TV's etc? Surely you could answer this, because you claim to know what is good and bad.

Let's legislate against all jobs that don't pay enough to support a family of 5, pay for a $200 000 house and 2 cars. I'm sure the young, uneducated and immigrants would be much better off then. And the career possibilities would be endless for those groups! They could go from store clerk, to store manager, to branch manager... no, wait, the first 2 jobs didn't exist, oops!

[airfrogusmc]

If you want to take part in the discussion you need to read what other people are writing.

I never said that the river was not dirty and that we do not need to protect the environment.

Of course we have to deplete energy resources. The only way not to do that would be to not use them at all, it would be the same as not having those resources, as resources are not endless and using is depleting. So, if you're saying that we shouldn't deplete resources you're putting us in the same position as if we had not had that resource, or depleted it! There is nothing beneficial in that.

We need to use resources and we need to find ways to use new resources.

I agree but my point is that business is short sited and only looking for the quick $ for the most part and the reason we are even having this conversation is time has shown that they are unwilling to police themselves anyway this is what has happened historically. They will deplete until there is nothing left to deplete. They will use labor in the best way it suits them to make a buck so without someone making sure they don't abuse their people or the environment which history show that they will thus we need the so called "unfair laws that restrict capitalism".

[hawk_]

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[hawk_]

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[denimdestroyedmylife]

now i understand superfuture's "no politics" policy

[horriblyjollyjinx]

I agree but my point is that business is short sited and only looking for the quick $ for the most part and the reason we are even having this conversation is time has shown that they are unwilling to police themselves anyway this is what has happened historically.

But you don't have a point. Why did Exxon spend $2 billions in the 80's to find alternative energy sources? Is it not so that billions are spent worldwide every year to find a cure for cancer? How did the corporations paying for this make money off it the next day?

Businesses are short and long sighted. If you still claim that businesses are short sighted, prove it. Until you have done that you have no criticism against a free economy.

They will deplete until there is nothing left to deplete. They will use labor in the best way it suits them to make a buck so without someone making sure they don't abuse their people or the environment which history show that they will thus we need the so called "unfair laws that restrict capitalism".

Companies are not depleting anything! You and me are, and we're paying companies to help us do so!

The African countries are those that are leaving the smallest footprints on nature, why have you not moved there yet and taken up their way of life, starving to death? better yet, kill yourself.

If you believe that the purpose of humanity is to not change the world, this is the only rational way.

I personally believe that the purpose of our existence is ourselves. To have a nice life.

[airfrogusmc]

Enron was very short sighted. Most public US corps are looking to the next quarter and have to show a profit or their stocks will tank, stock holders get pissed and CEOs loose their jobs. Thats short sighted. Because of the structure they can't afford to take hits in the short term for a better overall strategy. And how do you even begin to explain Exxons record profits and 14 billion in tax breaks. I own my own business and didn't get any tax relief last year. But back on point industries like the copper industry raped the land in the UP on Mich and left all the scars behind. That wasn't the consumer that dictated how they did business any more than it is when other companies recklessly pollute or exploit wok forces.

[implicit]

Sure, it's much worse than hearing that millions of africans die every year because you want to buy the most expensive, uneconomical food that you can find. I think what you implied is horrible. Why do you want africans to die?

There are quite a few leaps in logic there, sir. You assume quite a bit.

[chris_n]

ummm so selvage STF? does this mean that they're making a cheap selvage 501?

[viv1984viv]

yes, leaps in logic and messed up notions of cause and effect, whoa

[rnrswitch]

No they could not. Sure, every company could have given their employees 50% higher salaries. Then that cost would have been added to the price of the product. The difference in real wages would have been 0%.

If you remove profits you also stop the production of pretty much everything. What did the romans ever do for us?

This is true if people have no interest in the outdoors. No one goes hiking, skiing, camping etc. Wait, is that true? No, and therefore it is profitable to provide a place for these activities, and this is why no profit driven company would destroy their property.

If someone had owned that creek then that company would not have been allowed to dump waste in it. Well, maybe for $1 million, but I'm betting that would not have been profitable. What do you think?

I like how it is the workers that need to take a cut. Not the fat cats at the top. Why do higher wages have to translate into higher prices? Why can't it translate into a CEO getting a pay cut or not getting a lap dance on a business trip or buying off politicians.

Also, your privatize everything theory doesn't work because not everything is profitable. Why would a company that owns a pond next to their manufacturing plant or pig farm care if they polute it and that the pollution leads to people getting some nasty disease? They wouldn't. Because it isn't profitable. What are they going to do charge people to hang out at their pond? Not feasible. And who the hell wants to pay to swim in a river or go hiking. I was in Jersey and had to pay to step onto the beach (that ain't private industry, but would be similar) and where I am from that is insane.

Nature should be owned by the people not money grubbing capitalists looking to please their share holders.

[tweeds]

okay i'm no expert in environmental economics, but i know so far as to say that just so long as we realise there's no simple solution to this problem we're safe. because men smarter and fatter than us have been arguing over this problem for ages, and there's just no end in sight.

as far as pollution is concerned the economist magazine has printed articles on the notion of pollution credits, which i am a supporter of--the company or a country doesn't OWN any particular pond, or lake, or forest, but has a limited amount of "pollutability" beyond which a global watchdog will undertake economic sanctions as a punitive measure. i believe that sort of artificially bound free market system (a bit of an oxymoron) is the most immediate step to be taken. the spread effects will take years to trickle down to the individuals who care for and want to protect the environment they live in, but it's that little we can do given how difficult it is to even move a footstep.

beyond that, i dunno. continue as above, i suppose.

[cheapmuthafukr]

soooooooooooooooooooooooo....

i wanna see pics of these organic jeans.

[rnrswitch]

soooooooooooooooooooooooo....

i wanna see pics of these organic jeans.

Say word! I also want to see these new 501 selvedge jeans too. I am excited about Levis getting into denim again.

[chris_n]

Say word! I also want to see these new 501 selvedge jeans too. I am excited about Levis getting into denim again.

i second this notion and i want to know if the new STF are going to be cheaaaap

[blm14]

Heads up - saw the levi's eco green selvage shrink-to-fit 501s in the levis store today. The retail price is $245 and they are REALLY nice.

Too fucking bad the largest size they had in stock was 34... Oh and all the inseams I saw were tagged 36

[annacobra]

organic cotton is not more slubby.

The cotton is very similar to conventionally grown cotton, it only looks a little bit more off-white.

The slubbines comes from the spinning process, and my guess is that some spinning/weaving mills just want to emphasize the organic heritage by showing slubs/irregularities.

BTW, for 1 pound of conventional cotton 3 pounds of pestizide are used.

[khaltire]

wait, what happened to those eco friendly jeans I saw with coconut buttons or something? anyone remember those? what were those?

[blm14]

By the way, if anyone sees the green selvage STF ones in 36 or 38 I'd be willing to pay a finders fee and shipping to nyc...

[Shorty Long]

Has anyone bought these? They retail for $245 and seem to be marketed only to women (I noticed on both the Barney's and Levi's online store they're only in the women's section).

I'm just interested in finding out how well they're made/fit, etc...

[donkaiser]

it's funny that levis are the same one polluting lake in mexico and china with their denim color. it's just all about marketing and business.

[darkamage]

I saw the eco STFs with green selvage at the SF levi's store. The women's has 34 inseam and waist up to 28 or 29 while men's have 36" inseam and waist stating from 29. They look the same except for the size. IIRC, they are made in USA (of imported fabric?).

While I liked the denim, I didn't like the cut and I thought $245 was too steep. When I tried them on, the size didn't seem to be consistent and I didn't think it's the same as regular STFs either. Size 30 on these fit me a bit tight while size 31 must've been at least 2"-3" larger. So accounting for shrinkage, the 30 would probably cut into my waist while the 31 would still be to big.

I only tried those two pairs so maybe one or both of them are anomalies but the price didn't entice me to try on different pairs. The store had a bunch of them in women's and men's sizes though.

[blm14]

I ended up grabbing a pair from ebay for $100. They shrank a LOT and I did a cold soak overnight rather than the usual hot soak for about an hour. Before the soak I swam in them and now they're more like a comfort fit. I'm used to the eternals so they feel kind of "lightweight" but they're really comfy and they are also plant-based-indigo dye (according to the tags!) so it should be interesting to see how they age.

[poly800rock]

check barneys, they're onsale now.