tate + yoko - the official thread

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

If you haven't already seen this, here are some amazing pictures of Tom's 32oz Super Heavyweight after one year. Contrast you said ?

 

Check out the entire set right here

 

[Xstan]

Thanks to tate + yoko . 

I've just got mine ( WG32oz ) safely  today.  Wondering,  is this 2nd batch without the  tag ? 

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Thanks to tate + yoko . 

I've just got mine ( WG32oz ) safely  today.  Wondering,  is this 2nd batch without the  tag ? 

No tags for that release. As we already waited for the patches to be stitched, we decided that you guys will no longer wait. Did you notice the beautiful hand stitching of the patch ?

[Xstan]

yes , amazing. Notice that the rear belt loop has change to vertical position.

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Hey guys,

 

Just letting you know that we just received the first part of our restock of Flat Head. We should receive more 3001s and bigger sizes in 3009 in about a month too !

 

For now we restocked on the 3009s ( more 36 to come ), 2111s ( 1 x 31, 1 x 33, 1 x 36 ) and a full size run on the 6002 Type II 3XXX Jackets.

 

[zwer]

Hmm. And I'm in Montreal next week with time to kill...

[shoreman]

I'll be waiting on the next batch of 36s in the 3009.

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

I'll be waiting on the next batch of 36s in the 3009.

Will definitely let you know when here !

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

The much anticipated Naked & Famous Okayama Spirit have arrived at Tate + Yoko ! Incredibly slubby, dangerously low tension and unsanforized for an amazing look and texture. Pretty eager to see these fade...

 

[rayw44]

The "dangerously low tension" quote always bugs me.

 

First, we get it, slubbiness takes "dangerously low tension" on the looms to achieve, it doesn't have to be said for every product with a touch of slub or texture. And in the context used above, it isn't even used with any context to provide an uninformed party as to what that even refers to. That doesn't tell people that the phrase refers to the way the loom is set up when the fabric is made.

 

Second, how is low tension on a loom more dangerous than higher tension? Or in any way dangerous at all? I would think lower tension leads to less risk of broken threads or a shuttle that can come flying off at high speeds since there is less pressure on everything. The whole phrase seems completely counterintuitive and frankly a bunch of fluff.

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Wait till you see or feel in real life, as soon as you touch you will understand that the "marketing" behind it is relevant. According to Brandon, it is the " best fabric he ever encountered in 6 years of travelling to Japan ".

 

Also, lower tension denim are in fact dangerous for the looms. Do you realize how old and fragile these machines are ? Creating lower tension denim requires a lot of knowledge both in weaving and machine operating. I just feel that, as we are getting used to lower tension fabrics in this market, we tend to forget about the extensive knowledge needed to weave these.

[noirwest]

Do N&F power stretch jeans still end up stretching out permanently like other pairs of raw denim, or does the 5% elastaine kinda prevent any permanent stretching?  Looking to get the new midnight skinny guys but not sure if I should size down for stretch or go TTS.

[rayw44]

I'm not saying it doesn't take knowledge to make this fabric, or that the fabric itself isn't wonderful, I am merely stating that N&F constantly makes claims that lower tension weaving is a dangerous and scary endeavor, but I have never seen an explanation to back that up.

 

And I understand some of the looms may be old, but  industrial equipment is some of the hardiest stuff out there. There is a reason that used industrial equipment still sells for 80% or more of it's original value decades down the road if there is no upgraded version available. Plus, operating industrial equipment at a slower speed is NEVER a more dangerous endeavor. If there is a reason for it, great, I would love to know more about it, but my gut and everything I have ever heard about equipment of this kind tells me this is just marketing bullshit.

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Actually,

 

 

Low tension fabrics are created by running the machines at abnormal operating settings, not just lower speeds.   These are settings that the machines were not originally designed for.  Operating this way has the potential to do serious harm the machines.  The machines vibrate more, and machines simply do not run as efficiently and need to constantly be maintain by experienced workers ( in Okayama for these )

 

 

Even in Japan there are very few mills with the experience to make woven fabrics with this hand and feel. The process is in fact dangerous, check out the Shuttle Loom Grave Yard found outside of the mill. 

 

( Edit : just found the picture )

 

Edited September 27, 2013 by Tate + Yoko Staff

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Do N&F power stretch jeans still end up stretching out permanently like other pairs of raw denim, or does the 5% elastaine kinda prevent any permanent stretching?  Looking to get the new midnight skinny guys but not sure if I should size down for stretch or go TTS.

My Black power-stretch actually did stretch a bit but not like crazy. I went with the same size than my Left-Hand twills and the fit is fairly equivalent after a few wear.

[zwer]

I've got a pair of 25oz Iron Hearts that need hemming and I'm coming into Montreal tomorrow. 

 

First, would you hem them and second, I'm only in town for a day - would you mail them back to me?

[M1stral]

I'm not saying it doesn't take knowledge to make this fabric, or that the fabric itself isn't wonderful, I am merely stating that N&F constantly makes claims that lower tension weaving is a dangerous and scary endeavor, but I have never seen an explanation to back that up.

And I understand some of the looms may be old, but industrial equipment is some of the hardiest stuff out there. There is a reason that used industrial equipment still sells for 80% or more of it's original value decades down the road if there is no upgraded version available. Plus, operating industrial equipment at a slower speed is NEVER a more dangerous endeavor. If there is a reason for it, great, I would love to know more about it, but my gut and everything I have ever heard about equipment of this kind tells me this is just marketing bullshit.

From RAWR:

In some slubby denims, a technique called loom chatter is employed during the weaving process to help make the finished fabric even more textured. The layman’s explanation of loom chatter is that the shuttle looms that are used to weave the fabric are set to a low tension level while they weave.

This lower tension setting makes the looms literally shake while they weave the denim – an action which, in addition to the naturally uneven nature of the yarn used to weave the denim, makes the product even more uneven and textured.

I can see why this can damage the looms. And therefore a risky thing to do if one does not know how to operate a shuttle loom.

Dangerous might not be the best choice of words though.

[bradl]

Not that credible of a source....

[ironheartfan123]

is the low tension suppose to be dangerous for the mills?  for the wearer? 

 

do we know that the machines posted above were damaged due to dangerously-low-tension denim? 

 

seems to me they said "dangerously low tension" as a marketing gimmick to make people feel more "dangerous" or "cool" by wearing the denim and now there's a bad attempt to make sense of it

[rayw44]

^Exactly my point. The picture simply shows broken looms, it doesn't esplain anything about low tension or the potential dangers thereof. And Bradl has a much better point, as the sources so far have simply been from the brands making these claims or denim websites which may have just pulled their info from the brands making these claims as well.

 

If someone like Ralph Tharpe or PaulT was quoted as saying this, I would certainly buy it, as they have extensive experience with Cone Mills and have been on the ground floor of the mills. The information provided so far simply doesn't prove the point, and instead is merely beggin the question with each response.

 

I'm not trying to troll the Tate and Yoko thread or to derail this anymore than I already have, but I assume if this is in fact the case it would be easy to have a credible source or manual, or something, better than just stating over and over that it is dangerous because we say it is.

[M1stral]

Not that credible of a source....

While true... What matters most is that the information is correct.

[rayw44]

No, that's the point. You don't know that information to be correct, and logic would dictate that in fact the opposite is likely true. If you have some other source or something credible to back it up, that would be great, as a definitive answer would be appreciated, but so far nothing said in support of this conclusion seems to have a lick of fact to support it. It's just been bald assertions not supported by anything.

[M1stral]

No, that's the point. You don't know that information to be correct, and logic would dictate that in fact the opposite is likely true. If you have some other source or something credible to back it up, that would be great, as a definitive answer would be appreciated, but so far nothing said in support of this conclusion seems to have a lick of fact to support it. It's just been bald assertions not supported by anything.

 

I was more talking about the quote about loom chatter and that texturized denim can be made by utilizing low(er) tension on weaving machines. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

The fact that this is mentioned on RAWR , does not make this info questionable. There are plenty of sources who mention the technique.

 

What certainly is questionable though, is the fact if low tension weaving actually is dangerous or is more a marketing gimmick, like you stated. In this case I can agree with you. Some credible source might be able to verify this.

 

I just googled if I could find some info on low tension weaving, but got nothing more than we all know or assume. We could always ask Myth Busters if low tension weaving actually is dangerous, if no credible source is found though

[rayw44]

I was more talking about the quote about loom chatter and that texturized denim can be made by utilizing low(er) tension on weaving machines. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

The fact that this is mentioned on RAWR , does not make this info questionable. There are plenty of sources who mention the technique.

 

 

Got it. I certainly agree with you on this as well.

[HGS]

is the low tension suppose to be dangerous for the mills?  for the wearer? 

 

I don't know about the mills but I tried on a pair and I barely escaped with my life.  

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

I've got a pair of 25oz Iron Hearts that need hemming and I'm coming into Montreal tomorrow. 

 

First, would you hem them and second, I'm only in town for a day - would you mail them back to me?

Sorry for the delayed response man, if you're still in town you can drop by the store and we will be happy to hem / mail your jeans back with tracking number !

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Also, we just received the much expected Naked & Famous x Big John x Rockin Jelly Bean. Nothing dangerous with that one I promise!

 

Featuring the Big John's signature Ruri denim ( only 3/4 of the regular amount in order to achieve this unique light blue color ),  Big John buttons, hidden rivets, special patch and artwork by cult artist Rockin' Jelly Bean. Also comes with a limited edition poster !

 

 

[HGS]

I'm not in the market for new jeans at the moment but I love that blue.

[Lendo]

Are the vintagecast jeans being done offered in anything other than the weird guy fit?

[Tate + Yoko Staff]

Are the vintagecast jeans being done offered in anything other than the weird guy fit?

You can also find them in a Skinny Guy fit.