Pride FC and MMA

[aak]

finally got round to watching that interview. i am now a chael sonnen fan.

[conqueror]

new MMA organization with the first event being on sep 3rd in singapore. bas rutten commentating;

ONE Fighting Championship™ launches the largest MMA organization in Asian history

14 July, 2011 - Singapore: ONE Fighting Championship™ has launched Asia's largest mixed martial arts organization in history. ONE Fighting Championship will launch a series of world-class, live events in all major cities in Asia, including the ONE Fighting Championship™, the ONE National Qualifier Series™, and the ONE Life™ Reality TV show.

ONE Fighting Championship™ is home to some of the most decorated World Champions and elite fighters in Asia, including:

-6x Muay Thai World Champion, Anuwat Kaewsamrit (Thailand)

-Wushu and MCFC Champion, Eduard Folayang (Philippines)

-Sanda World Champion, Bao Li Gao (China)

-Spirit MC Champion, Kwang Hee Lee (Korea)

-6x Muay Thai World Champion, Namsaknoi Yudthagarngamtorn (Thailand)

-Total Combat FC Champion, Eddie Ng (Hong Kong)

-Malaysia Champion and XFC Champion, Adam Kayoom (Malaysia)

-Sanda World Champion, Zhao Zhi Long (China)

-BJJ World Champion, Zorobabel Moreira (Brazil/Singapore)

-URCC FC Champion, Kevin Bellingon (Philippines)

-WBA Boxing World Champion, Yodsanan Sityodtong (Thailand)

-Muay Thai World Champion and K1 Veteran, Ole Laursen (Philippines)

-Risingon FC Champion, Soo Chul Kim (Korea)

-2x MCFC Champion, Mitch Chilson (USA/Singapore)

-BJJ World Champion and MCFC Champion, Leandro Issa (Brazil/Singapore)

-URCC FC Champion, Eric Kelly (Philippines)

-5x Muay Thai World Champion Orono Wor Petchpun (Thailand)

-Sanda World Champion, Ba Teer (China)

-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, Gregor Gracie (Brazil)

-Muay Thai World Champion, Yoddecha Sityodtong (Thailand)

-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, Rolles Gracie (Brazil)

-Afghanistan Champion and MCFC Champion, Malik Arash Malawyi (Afghanistan)

-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, Igor Gracie (Brazil)

ONE Fighting Championship™ currently remains in confidential discussions with many of the top Asian fighters in Asia and is expected to make additional major announcements soon. It is the goal of ONE Fighting Championship to work with all the top Asian MMA event organizations, managers, and fighters in growing the sport of mixed martial arts in Asia.

As part of its broadcast plans, the ONE Fighting Championship™ will be shown on ESPN STAR SPORTS (ESS), Asia’s top sports content provider, and MediaCorp Channel 5 (MC), Singapore's leading media company, across Asia. It is the largest MMA media broadcast in Asian history. In addition, several other major Asian broadcasting partnerships will also be announced in the near future.

Victor Cui, CEO/Owner of ONE Fighting Championship, said, ”ONE Fighting Championship marks a significant inflection point in the sport of mixed martial arts in Asia. By our first event on September 3, we will be in more than 500 million homes across Asia and it is only the beginning. Asia has been the birthplace and home to martial arts for the last 5,000 years and ONE Fighting Championship has a vision of bringing mixed martial arts to the 3.9 billion people living in Asia. I am excited by the dominant leadership position of ONE Fighting Championship in Asia and the future of mixed martial arts in this region of the world. MMA is the fastest growing sport on the planet. We intend to showcase some of the most adrenaline-filled, exciting fights in Asia, featuring the best Asian fighters.”

About ONE Fighting Championship™

Headquartered in Singapore, ONE Fighting Championship™ (http://www.onefc.com) is Asia's largest mixed martial arts organization. ONE Fighting Championship hosts the most prestigious mixed martial arts event in Asia and is the only Asian MMA organization with a pan-Asian media broadcast.

[conqueror]

also "ONE Fighting Championship will institute Pride Fighting Championships rules combined with the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts; allowing for soccer kicks, head stomps, and permitting the use of elbows."

[Lozinski]

Eeeeek that head kick!!!! What was that dude doing on all fours tho?...

[baizilla]

Damn, both Orono and Anuwat.. I'll definitely look forward to seeing how they transition into MMA. Sounds too good to be true.

[hardlyworking]

Lol, good form

You can see the regret on his face at the end

[16steps]

theoretical match up:

Bruce Lee vs. GSP

My friend says GSP all day. Please post and state his insanity

[ktothe]

Bruce Lee would lose to nearly every modern top 20 mixed martial artist. And its a stupid query.

Mike Tyson vs. Mothra?

[16steps]

wait wait, are you being cereal right now?

cant tell if being trolled or not

[TPR950H]

didnt bruce lee only weigh like.. 130?

doesnt gsp walk around close to 200?

[baizilla]

^ Obviously they would fight in the same weight class or at catchweight.

It also depends a lot if it is a MMA match or stand up match.

MMA: current GSP vs. Bruce Lee back in his prime.... GSP would definitely win this, no doubt. He'll be able to wrestle him to a sure win.

Now that we are on the theoretical level, If you take a Bruce Lee in his prime and put him in a modern day MMA gym and gave him some ground + submission game... he'll fuck GSP up.

Stand up: Bruce Lee all day. GSP has decent stand up, but his combinations are weak.

[ktothe]

Max Schmeling vs. Apollo Creed?

[TPR950H]

so fictitious bruce lee of an unknown weight and skill level vs a modern gsp.

im gonna say shampoo crouton.

[16steps]

bruce lee weighed 160 back in his prime. GSP fights at 170. Not too big of a difference.

I understand that GSP could out-wrestle bruce lee, thats a given.

But would bruce lee even let it go to the ground? GSP cant throw a punch to save his life

Speed v. size

[ke1]

Zubin, I like ya, but this got out of control after the follow up post.

[16steps]

damn, its like that?

[Leonard Leroy]

Lol, good form

You can see the regret on his face at the end

shit make me laugh so much

[16steps]

Of course MMA gys will rep their set, but still, i dunno

[ke1]

All the video above states is that Bruce Lee wasn't against pulling hair, gouging eyes, biting opponents, groin strikes, pretty much anything you would consider "dirty" or "cheap" in today's standards of fighting. Thus, he was a "fighter" and not a "competitor". A round-about answer to try and justify Bruce Lee as being greater than he ever was. The guy flat out says he would put his money on Lee against any fighter, and weight division. While the general consensus might not be THAT extreme, it still embodies how the much the masses overrate his abilities.

I don't want to devote tooooo much time to this, but I'll just transcribe what comes to mind. Disregarding Lee's physical stats (because 165 or 145, he'd still be vastly undersized), Lee simply didn't have sufficient training in enough martial arts to compete in today's circuit, let alone against GSP. True, Bruce was quick and agile, but I can't believe for a second he had the one hit, punch of death, power to knock out/stun a man of GSP's size and strength. With that said, in a fight, GSP would be able to get into a clinch sooner or later, and take him down with ease. From there, Bruce Lee's limited jiu-jitsu training (both defense on offense) would stand no chance to GSP's skill and sheer size. If GSP completely nullified BJ, a bigger and vastly more skilled BJJ practitioner than Bruce Lee, he would have no problem with Lee.

Going back to the striking aspect, Bruce Lee wouldn't be able to dance and evade GSP as easily and frequently as most would suggest. The man was quick, but wasn't a goddamn ghost. Say he wanted to run the entire time, he would have to engage at one point or another. If Bruce stood far and leaped in with his infamous side kicks, they would be telegraphed and caught/taken down. If he ever dared to stay in the pocket, his stance would be too linear with his front foot forward, leaving it available to single leg takedowns at the very least.

And this argument gets thrown out there every time, but if JKD was as amazing as everyone claimed it to be, why is there not even ONE mildly successful practitioner of it in MMA. From what I can see, JKD has a lot of interlocking hand sparring where you're face to face with your opponent and you rock your hands back and forth and attack/counter off of that. There is no fight scenario where you would be lucky enough to get that close and have that much control over your opponent without getting punched in the face.

How educated are you in MMA and how much personal experience do you have in wrestling/boxing/muay thai/jiu-jitsu and actual sparring? I just want to gauge how legitimate your questions are.

[aoi]

ke1 nailed it.

All respect to Bruce Lee, no chance vs GSP.

But I do believe there's some fighters around that started with JKD, I know for a fact I've read about some. The problem is, much like TKD or Karate, many people start there, but when they get serious advance to Muay Thai/Kickboxing. So many people who already started JKD or another more traditional art never really never get talked about as a "JKD fighter" or whatever. The exception is Machida who's been true to Karate for a long time .

Roy Nelson started his martial arts career in Kung Fu for example.

[ke1]

Afterthought during shower:

Is it not undeniable that the athletes of every sport today have transcended considerably both in talent and athleticism over those from 30 years ago?

Then why is Bruce Lee still heralded as a freak of nature phenomenon? MMA is put on the back burner because it's still in its infancy (<20 years), yet people expect from it skill and showmanship as if it were around forever. NBA and NFL have been around for 60 and 90 years.

I say this because people see MMA, and most times "sloppy" MMA, and see less talent than there really is. Then they see Bruce Lee, a master of a single martial art, JKD. But what these same people fail to realize is that MMA is the implementation of NUMEROUS martial arts, therefore making it 10x more complex to execute and defend attacks. The point I'm getting at, is that had GSP stuck to Karate, or Shogun to Muay Thai, or BJ to jiu-jitsu, these men would be seen as levels higher in their own respective sports than they are in a sport that is a conglomeration of many martial arts.

So a kindergartener would phrase it like this, comparing Bruce Lee to GSP is like comparing a runner to a triathlon competitor.

[ke1]

Evans wins it via TKO is my initial response w/o much thought. Most likely unanimous though.

Tito hasn't shown drastic striking improvement throughout his 13 year career. Granted, he did stun Bader nicely, but imo his form in that punch and his history of having sub-par striking keeps me pretty confident. Plus, you can't tell me he improved that much with a hollow training camp like he had last fight.

As for his wrestling, I don't want to make assumptions, but I saw him getting handled by our 19 year old junior college heavy weight wrestler 1 1/2 years ago. And even though I believe he wrestled fairly well against Rashad the last fight, that memory is something that keeps me doubting him.

My heart says Tito, but my wallet says Rashad. Will have to rewatch their past 5 fights to get a more accurate prediction.

[percy]

just read all the bruce lee conversation, quite interesting. like ke1 says, pretty much every sport and its atheletes today have adapted and grown throughout the sports life time, however there are always exceptions. some people transend generations due to their high levels of talent or things they did which were advanced in their era.

the ufc has changed so much since its inception. gracie dominated because he was doing something noone else could counter. then every body learned what he did and something else became the must have skill. over recent years it has been wrestling but as people become more adapt it is the striking which is taking over once again. i mean, every good mma fighter worth his salt can wrestle or knows ju jitsu.

what bruce lee did with jkd was essentially a form of mma, taking the best parts of what was out there and creating a new style. also, jkd certainly isnt a sport like most mma techniques. after all wrestling will only get you so far if someone rips your eyes out and crushes your windpipe. i think it is pretty obvious bruce lee where he was would struggle against any modern ufc star, but so would gracie and that was only 15 years ago. however, a man who was as dedicated to growth in martial arts and adapting to new techniques would surely catch up pretty quickly, and after all, it was his striking he was famous for and that is in my opinion where we are currently headed.

ps. if tito stays healthy he may be more dangerous than people give him credit.

[ktothe]

You're 100% incorrect in your assumption that striking is overtaking wrestling as THE must have skill. You cant box from your back.

Wrestling is without a doubt the absolute best skill to have in modern mma and without a doubt the absolute best best base skill to start from. The reasons are two fold: 1) Knowing how to control a persons body will always put you ahead of them. 2) Current MMA judging criteria are stupid and honestly it will probably never change.

And no not everyone worth their salt can REALLY wrestle.

[percy]

wait, i didnt say it was the best skill to have. what i said was as people become adapt at wrestling, just as they did at ju jitsu, the fighters will nullify each other in those areas, then it will become striking which will play a greater role in fights.

gsp is a great wrestler and yet instead he chooses to pick people off in stand up. diaz will be something different for him as he can do both. maybe we will see a higher level of ground and pound from gsp in the next fight?

i also agree, judging criteria needs revising.

[ke1]

Wrestling is getting less focus because fighters like Anderson, Jones, and Cain, JDS, Guillard are wrecking their opponents without having to go to the ground. Fact is, they either have 1) sufficient takedown defense, 2) they're fighting good, not great wrestlers, or 3) they themselves are great wrestlers. The common link being that they would all be fucked without wrestling. A fact that Anderson nearly proved in his last fight with Chael.

But I do think Percy has a point in that there are more ways for one to attack with their limbs than there are to take someone down. Wrestling has a higher chance of becoming nullified from fighters learning awesome TDD. As opposed to striking where it's harder to defend against a highly skilled striker throwing a 3 punch combo then leg kicks, or so I believe.

[percy]

thats the point i was trying to make ke1. not that wrestling isnt the superior skil, just that the sport is evolving. if everyone can do everything, then something has to stand out for someone to win.

[Lozinski]

The best comparison fight I've heard is Bruce Lee vs. Muhammad Ali in a boxing fight. (I'm for Bruce sadly..)

Now that would be interesting.

GSP would destroy him to answer the question. He can throw one hell of a punch btw.. His boxing training partner at times is Manny Pacquiao who has said that GSP has excellent boxing and could stand up to many top ranked boxers.

I can't see Rashad loosing the upcoming fight with his extremely evasive stand up and wrestling that can match if not beat Tito's.

[BIZ]

Cant wait for Fedor Vs. Dan Henderson !

Im predicting Fedor by brutal KO

[ktothe]

Oh if you're saying you cant just be a wrestler, then yes that much is clear. The era of the Matt Hughes' (who actually is a legit grappler) is way over. The best example of that is Matt Hamill. I refuse to buy an event that has him on it. Streams will work fine if I'm going to have to spend at least 15 minutes watching him lurch around the ring.

But my point is that there can be no serious doubt that wrestling has become and will remain the most useful MMA skill to have until theres some crazy ADCC-esque rule change that doesnt make wrestling clearly advantages in the pursuit of winning in the sport of MMA Id like to point out two things: 1) On your list ke1 only two of those and arguably only one of them doesn't have a good wrestling game and 3 of them started off as wrestlers. 2) Defending takedowns isn't some crazy offshoot of martial art. It's also wrestling. These guys arent doing anything but wrestling basics to defend wrestling attacks. What I'm trying point out here is that wrestling is more than just taking someone down. Wrestling is also Pummeling - getting over unders, double unders and double overs. Example? Randy Couture who uses it to push his dirty boxing, Takedown defense (whether it be a simple sprawl, some crazy wizzer, or just getting back up to your feet quickly and effectively when taken down) Example? Bj Penn, or the best example Chuck fucking Liddell. And theres also scrambles. Faber.

So yeah you cant just be a wrestler but there is now way to truely have any reason to think wrestling is becoming less of "a thing". Where do you think MMA agents are looking for talent? They are going straight to the wrestling programs at the top division 1 and 2 schools. Some schools are even having their wrestlers cross train with mma gyms like quest and aka so they can not only augment their game, but also so they have a career when they graduate. Take a look at the top 10 list of any weight from lightweight up (i make that distinction because those weights are just now becoming infused with talent in the US as opposed to Japan where they've had them forever (and have had some amazing fights)) how many non wrestlers do you see?