Lawless denim - kickstarter project

[mp201]

who the fuck would buy anything from this company at this point? there's been a million shitty reviews for them and you'll wait what seems like an eternity for some clothes that are just off and ugly. 

 

personally, i'd just pick up an extra shift at work for a day or two, and get well made no bullshit clothing in a reasonable time period, like a week from when you order.

Well mostly because they seem to be pushing out a quality product.

 

The thing is, that if this company gets over it's obvious hiccups, we will be left with people delivering really solid stuff for the price. And that's something we all want to see.

 

 

with that being said, I may have ordered two pairs just now simply for fun.

Edited May 15, 2015 by mp201

[Cucoo]

Also because with the custom options available you can get stuff that's hard to impossible to find from other brands, like some button/fabric/shirt cut combinations.

[apba1166]

Well, Ben, I did. And got a great pair of jeans, fits nice, details nice, and a 13oz denim shirt, also great, for about 1/4 of the price elsewhere---if I could even get it (shirt). So why not? I doubt anyone on this list doesn't have enough to wear that they can't wait. And as far as stuff made better by "real" guys....I have IH shirts with bad buttonholes, The Flat Head shirts with popped snaps, Warehouse jeans with loose threads, SDA pants w/different leg lengths, and Filson things with unraveling everything, And these (except Filson) are real favorites of mine, and I love the things anyway, not to mention stuff that fits not great from a lot of places but I still like. As we all do. So why are these guys any worse or better. I'm glad I took the chance. I suggest if you want well-made stuff you can't complain about and that has no imperfections of any type you buy Canali, Oxxford, and on a good day HF (but not Kitoni) whose customers actually do want stuff exacting fit and finish and w/ten year wear life w nothing falling apart. -M

[Broark]

I think it's kinda lame that they continue to push other projects out the door when they can't even get orders finished that were placed 6-8 months ago. Almost seems like they're just floating that cash to complete other projects instead of ones they already committed to.

That might be completely wrong, I have no idea. But I haven't really seen anything they've made that's even close to worth waiting that long. I can't remember where, but I saw a pair that someone received and it was all off. Weird stitching and just poor finishing.

I'd rather save up the cash and get something that's made properly and finished well, but that's just me.

[DirtyDenim1]

I have some knowledge on a few things and think what they are doing is exactly what they needed to do.  Of course it sucks for those who are waiting but without this move there would be no future.  If they sat back and just completed what was in already they would run out of funds and eventually not be able to continue producing orders.  This will allow them to fund their future and those orders.  Mistakes were made without a doubt so this is the only answer .  I believe most of you know I left Lawless so I dont know exact things anymore but I do know what went wrong and what needed to be done

 

Trust me this is a good thing even though it seams to suck

[exaptavist]

. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Megatron1505]

  I believe most of you know I left Lawless so I dont know exact things anymore but I do know what went wrong and what needed to be done

 

 

 

Sal doesn't work for them any more HG.

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[TPR950H]

so i forgot to update.  i ordered some stuff from their ready to wear (RTW) collection.  this stuff has a much faster turn around and way less customization options. they say allow 24-48 hours for processing and then a week to receive for shipping.  i received them in roughly 1 week from order date (and that includes memorial day weekend) i got these ones:

 

http://www.ra-denim.com/11-oz-cone-mills-indigo-over-indigo-selvedge-denim/

 

first off, you really have to listen to them when they say get your true measured waist size.  my PBJs are 28.  my levis are a 29.  my APC cure (not new cure) are 27s.  i ordered these in a 30 and theyre still pretty tight.  id love a 31 but the RTS is only available in even sizes.

 

the cut is good (slim taper).  the craftsmanship is good with some small quirks (one of the button fly holes was too small and i had to cut it to feed a button through).

 

everything actually looks amazing for the price i paid.  the ONLY thing is that the rear pockets are very small.  i could not fit my bifold zipwallet in there but a trifold fits in there nicely.  so you guys with those giant wallets with the leather chains will have to find another pair of jeans.

 

the owner is a cool dude.  he let me cancel my forever backlogged custom order for credit to use towards some more RTW.  i ordered 2 more pairs of RTW (this time slim straight) and paid roughly $20 more.  with all that, i ordered may 30th and the order still shows "pending".

 

c'est la vie.  ill be happy when they come.

Edited July 20, 2015 by TPR950H

[bradl]

Not that any of us give a shit, but the humor this all has definitely hit its climax.

http://selvedgestyle.com/thread/264/lawless-reviews?page=75

[DirtyDenim1]

Not that any of us give a shit, but the humor this all has definitely hit its climax.

http://selvedgestyle.com/thread/264/lawless-reviews?page=75

 

Much more to happen with LD.  This is only the beginning as i think a lot more will come out and happen

[rayw44]

Sure, like bankruptcy, possibly some fraud charges, and maybe even some jail time. It should all be fun to watch.

[cmboland]

Lawlessdenim 2014-2015 RIP

LD&CO 2015-2015 RIP

[DirtyDenim1]

I have been saying this a lot lately so I will say it here.  There are 2 issues with LD.  1) Roman is a extremely bad business manager.  Many of the issues are based on him making horrible business choices.  His idea of doing expense reports is adding up things that pop into his mind at that moment.   Incompetence is a great way to describe his abilities.   2) His short comings as a business manager have the same affect on his decisions than that of a desperate addict looking to fund his next drug purchase .  You basically do whatever is needed to get you what you need like begging, stealing and lying.  So if he wasn't so incompetent or he had the ability to accept he was wrong and needed help, he wouldnt have had to make such bad decisions (lying and fluffing the truth) to keep selling to fund his mistakes.  

 

I am not saying he wasn't aware of what he was doing because i believe he was but if you only knew how quick an idea became a reality, u would understand how things got so bad so quick.  I don't have this amazing education in business but i do have common sense to know $35 doesn't cover $100 in expenses.  I also think he is the type that runs from problems.  He did not like talking about any of the issues but instead spun it into you being a cancer and got everyone against you.  He basically tried to keep the truth from coming out by shutting you up with "u are a cancer"  

[bradl]

What did he do before this where he can even think of funding something like this.

Also people like him need to stay out of the raw denim scene. Go to mass market mall jeans if you have that attitude, but he's clearly doing it for the wrong reasons. If he even has a reason to do it

[DirtyDenim1]

What did he do before this where he can even think of funding something like this.

Also people like him need to stay out of the raw denim scene. Go to mass market mall jeans if you have that attitude, but he's clearly doing it for the wrong reasons. If he even has a reason to do it

 

 

He was in the Restaurant business as a manager but also had a computer networking company that also set up huge entertainment systems for homes and businesses in AZ .  This 2 did well for a bit but failed because of his lack of customer service knowledge and business sense.

 

The Lawless thing was actually put together on a large scale in a short amount of time.  He really did accomplish something big with him getting all the machines he sourced.  I would say if he knew what to do next he could have done something quite big.  The other thing was his partnership in the looms.  That was real as well although i do not know if 14 looms were ever going to be fully functional.  His partner in that is someone i know to be successful on his own and also someone i am absolutely shocked would ever partner with Roman.  2 totally different types, 1 is a highly educated guy with business sense and a successful business that sells to major dept stores and the other is a great talker.  

[Maynard Friedman]

Thanks bradl for helping to reveal what a bunch of c*#+$ they are, well the owner anyway, seems like some of the staff are very decent people. Anyone who orders anything from them now needs a lobotomy!

Edited July 17, 2015 by Maynard Friedman

[cmboland]

He was in the Restaurant business as a manager but also had a computer networking company that also set up huge entertainment systems for homes and businesses in AZ . This 2 did well for a bit but failed because of his lack of customer service knowledge and business sense.

The Lawless thing was actually put together on a large scale in a short amount of time. He really did accomplish something big with him getting all the machines he sourced. I would say if he knew what to do next he could have done something quite big. The other thing was his partnership in the looms. That was real as well although i do not know if 14 looms were ever going to be fully functional. His partner in that is someone i know to be successful on his own and also someone i am absolutely shocked would ever partner with Roman. 2 totally different types, 1 is a highly educated guy with business sense and a successful business that sells to major dept stores and the other is a great talker.

Sometimes the great talker and great business man can compliment each other but unfortunately this sounds like forcing a pipe dream.

[DirtyDenim1]

Sometimes the great talker and great business man can compliment each other but unfortunately this sounds like forcing a pipe dream.

 

 

His partner in the loom business should run as far as possible.  Im sure he is telling him some ridiculous story as to why LD failed.   

 

If i had the writing skills I could write a screenplay about him.  It would be a mixture of Catch me if you can,  Boiler Room,  Tommy Boy and American Psycho.  

[Cucoo]

While it's always fun to follow meltdowns like this as a bystander, I'm still a bit bummed out, since Lawless did have some really cool (theoretical) options for shirts. I was really hoping they'd survive a couple turbulent first years and grow into a reliable business. Too bad there's no one at the helm who could make that happen.

 

Also, I feel for anyone who got burned, of course, most of all anyone working there. 

[splash pitman]

It's a shame , I'm loving what I received .

There was a lot of flak about this company , justified ( who knows ) but the underlining truth is that it filled a gap in the market that people were willing to throw money at hand over fist .

Maybe someone will fill this now open void in the marketplace or at the very least modify what they sell to benifit from someone else's loss .

[Wörn75]

^ Yep RPMWest has been doing some really nice, pre-order pieces at a decent price point and the person at the helm Manuel Rappard has done his homework. 

 

http://rpmwest.com/

 

On Vimeo https://vimeo.com/97251187

Edited July 18, 2015 by Wörn75

[DirtyDenim1]

I really think Lawless had something different in mind than RPM west and i will tell you why.  Roman wanted to bring what Gustin, RPM west and all the other low to mid range brands were bringing BUT at Levi's non selvedge prices.  A nice thought if you had the inner workings and abilities to produce jeans at a rate similar to a factory producing jeans in 15 to 20 minutes.  He didn't have that but he wanted it to a fault.   He had no understanding of his limits.  Thats where the bad business sense came in.  There were fabrics we bought that it could have been done with but even then there needed some tweaking.  Full custom would never work at those prices.  It just took to much work ($$) but maybe RTW could work if you stuck to denims that kept you in the black.  He could have even been in the red a little as long as he was caught up because people would have continued to buy.  Trying to compete with the releases of Gustin or Naked & Famous forces Lawless to go outside its business model.   He did things so fast without ever thinking them through basically 

Edited July 18, 2015 by DirtyDenim1

[Maynard Friedman]

What is this 'gap in the market' that people keep mentioning? Is it Japanese/higher echelon US brand quality at cheap prices? If so, there's a reason it's not possible and Lawless has imploded because of that. If you want decent quality products made at a fair labour rate, you have to pay for them. Simple.

[SuperJackle]

^Amen.

[Megatron1505]

Nothing to do with Lawless, but that is a rather broad comment Maynard. There are actually a lot of brands out there offering that type of quality and ethics at really good prices, but as they don't come from Japan or the USA they are largely ignored, sad really.

 

I know this to be true because I have been and I have seen. I have also seen products from these brands harshly criticised for minor imperfections on hand made/ sewn goods which I have seen the same, or worse, on some much lauded brands.

 

Don't know what that says about consumer prejudice, but it says something.

[DirtyDenim1]

People have the wrong idea of what he intended.  He got this idea of being the Gap of raw selvedge denim somewhere along the line.  He also wanted to bring the selvedge idea to Cathy who normally shops at Walmart for her jeans.  He also wanted to be the denim brand for Cafe Racers and the denim brand for wrestlers and body builders and then also for Electricians and and and but never understood why it couldnt happen without actually sitting down and doing the numbers.  Never once did he stick to one idea and never once did I feel we had an identity so he was stuck selling the idea of Lawless being cheap

 

CLUELESS but Commendable and cute for trying

 

As i have said all that led to him screwing people whether it was knowingly or because he just had no clue what $35 in sales compared to $100 in expenses would do in the end.

Edited July 18, 2015 by DirtyDenim1

[Broark]

"He also wanted to bring the selvedge idea to Cathy who normally shops at Walmart"

This is trend hypebeast-ism at its finest.

Not to be rude but good riddance.

[DirtyDenim1]

"He also wanted to bring the selvedge idea to Cathy who normally shops at Walmart"

This is trend hypebeast-ism at its finest.

Not to be rude but good riddance.

 

You do know what i meant by saying that right?  I was pointing out how confused he was/is and never really grabbed a hold of any one thing.  I am not in any way sticking up or trying to make things better for him but instead trying to explain how and why he never had a chance with the custom model at $35

[Maynard Friedman]

Mega, as you've said, those brands are not based in the U.S. or Japan. They have lower labour costs, which translates to cheaper prices. My point is that Lawless was positioning itself as a a high quality US manufacturer selling at dirt cheap prices, i.e. USA! USA! USA! But cheap. Very different to what you're saying. My comment is not as broad as your comment may suggest.