Loopwheeled/Vintage T-Shirts

[beautiful_FrEaK]

so he deleted all his posts? or did the mods clean after him?

[nachtelijk]

the excess tension cited might be in comparison to the 'newer' circular-knitting machines.

here's one example of a 1950's circular-knitting machine at work, from Lee Kung Man

I see that they have a Swiss-made raglan, but I'm more interested in their Japanese sewn stuff.

the raglan is made of Swiss cotton, not made in Switzerland.

well i may be wrong on both counts, do feel free to correct me

[S-Town]

^

You may be right there. But, it definitely looks like more of a special release as opposed to a standard model. I may be wrong as well.

[misterjuiceman]

well, no tension except for gravity. I think thats what he means. Whatever went and got himself banned it looks like.

He made it very clear he meant no tension at all. He also seemed to imply that he has a superior knowledge of physics than us. That's why I asked him to do a free body diagram, so I could see how the force of gravity is (isn't) cancelled out.

Edited March 19, 2013 by misterjuiceman

[garden gnomes in space]

sorry, i was trying to clarify for ksisouk, but didnt quote. i was always under the impression that loopwheeled stuff was tension free, aside from the natural tension caused by the gravity needed to make it work. However, i also lost track of the direction of the thread because it turned into another cockfight between us peasants and dear leader whatever123.

tl;dr, i dont know shit and really enjoy these threads when people shed light on the subject.

[kiya]

Who would have thought that the "Loopwheeled/Vintage T-Shirts" thread on Sufu would turn into the most dramatic and interesting thread of month?

[Aries]

This was a very schadenfreude read, that eejit had a ban coming for a long time, 'sperging out all over the shop.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Aries

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[ksisouk]

sorry, i was trying to clarify for ksisouk, but didnt quote. i was always under the impression that loopwheeled stuff was tension free, aside from the natural tension caused by the gravity needed to make it work. However, i also lost track of the direction of the thread because it turned into another cockfight between us peasants and dear leader whatever123.

tl;dr, i dont know shit and really enjoy these threads when people shed light on the subject.

Sorry it was an "argument" with whatever123. I was claiming that it wasn't tension free (ie no tension whatsoever) but rather had no excess tension cause gravity causes tension. And he just spouted something about "no gravity tension" on the loopwheel machine and pretty much called me an idiot. So misterjuiceman and I were trying to make him show us how he came up with it just to show him his explanation didn't make any sense. Then he disappeared. But then I just wanted to make sure and didn't want it to look like I was picking on the dude so I explained how I arrived at my thing and your answer was pretty much what I told him and he rejected it.

Anyways, now this thread won't be as fun.

[Double 0 Soul]

so he deleted all his posts? or did the mods clean after him?

Oh no! he,s gone i was just beginning to take a shine to him too.

[Double 0 Soul]

....waits for abuse questioning my IQ, social credibility, moral fibre, integrity, possible agenda, etc...

Dont forget sexuality.

[Foxy2]

the excess tension cited might be in comparison to the 'newer' circular-knitting machines.

here's one example of a 1950's circular-knitting machine at work, from Lee Kung Man

the raglan is made of Swiss cotton, not made in Switzerland.

well i may be wrong on both counts, do feel free to correct me

Lee Kung Man - is on my list, need to pick up something next time I'm in HK.

The LW Swiss Tee is indeed Swiss cotton, not Swiss made. Very nice, heavy tee - just wore mine the other day.

[Sugar Mountain]

^ I've already added Lee Kung Man to my HK shopping list when I'm there next week. I have an undershirt made by them and would like to check out their entire range at the Wan Chai shop.

[Foxy2]

Somewhere in the midst of this debate, has anyone explained the difference between a loopwheel machine and a standard tubular knit machine (if there is such a thing)?

...

Here is an overview that gives you an idea where Loop wheel and sinker wheel machines fit in:

Source: handbook of technical textiles

[Foxy2]

The significant features are:

- bearded/spring needle

- fixed bar, single needle bed

The different needle types in overview:

[Foxy2]

Some textbook action:

On bearded needle weft knitting machines of the straight bar frame and sinkerwheel type (as on Lee’s hand frame), the main purpose of a sinker is to sink or kink the newly laid yarn into a loop (Fig. 1) as its forward edge or catch © advances between the two adjacent needles. On the bearded needle loopwheel frame, the blades of burr wheels perform this function, whereas on latch needle weft knitting machines (Fig. 2) and warp knitting machines (Fig. 3), loop formation is not a function of the sinkers.

The second and more common function of sinkers on modern machines is to hold down the old loops at a lower level on the needle stems than the new loops that are being formed, and to prevent the old loops from being lifted as the needles rise to clear them from their hooks.

Source: knitting technology (one of my old textbooks way back in the day in MMU, Manchester)

It gives you a basic idea about the principle and some of the differences to modern circular knitting machines.

[Foxy2]

Some contemporary comments copied from encyclopedia Britannica, 11th Ed. under the term - Hoisery:

....

Circular Frames.

The English loop-wheel circular frame is constructed with spring needles arranged with the springs facing outwards round the circumference, and the fabric proceeds up wards to be coiled round winding-up rollers. This machine is specially adapted for making what is known as fleece-lined fabrics, as it has facilities for making fabrics where a thick thread floats on the back and is afterwards brushed and rendered fleecy. The machine can also be adapted for working imitation astrachan and fur-like fabrics, and it is also used for the thicker and denser textures suitable for suitings and overcoatings, the fabric having the knitted origin obscured by the brushing operation.

The French or German circular frame is another type of spring needle circular, where the needles radiate from a centre and are set in a circle with the fabric proceeding downwards. This ma chine has been adapted for the production of plush and velvet fabrics, mostly in artificial silk, where the lustrous yarn is brought to the surface with a longer length of loop which forms itself into a pile which can be cut or left uncut as desired. American machine builders have worked steadily forward production of both spring and latch needle machines of finer gauge or cut. The results are borne out by the 30, 34 and even 4o cut machines in use—the latter having 4o needles to the inch. Due to the wide-spread use of rayon, or artificial silk, and the resultant tendency toward finer fabrics, machines, such as 32 and 36 gauge are considered obsolete while the 42 gauge (28 cut) machine ranks supreme for under wear fabrics of quality. These fabrics have a wide popularity for dress goods, and they afford one more instance of the way in which the knitted fabric is invading the realm of the older woven tex ture. The finer denier of artificial silk combined with the deli cately set mesh of the fine-gauge knitting machine make it possi ble to produce fabrics of gossamer-like consistency for every tex tile use. In the newer adaptations of the Jacquard principle to the circular machines all limits to the scope of knitted design have been broken down, and it is now possible to produce fabrics with a repeat extending the full width of the fabric.

Development of hosiery machinery in America was principally along the lines of circular machines of the automatic type. An example of such machines is found in one type which starts knit ting, and after finishing the garter welt, turns, knits it into the body of the stocking, knits in an imitation seam at the back (in simulation of full-fashioned goods), enters the splicing yarns in heel, sole and foot, and automatically knits in gores in the heel and toe sections. The stocking leaves such a machine fully completed except the toe join or seam and dyeing and boarding. Fully auto matic hosiery machines, although imported in large numbers, are manufactured in America in two plants, one of them being the largest manufacturers of this type of machines in the world.

....

Edited March 19, 2013 by Foxy2

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Foxy2]

David J. Spencer makes a few specific comments throughout his book (Knitting Technology) in regards to sinker wheel and loop wheel frames:

- particularly suitable for plush and inlay fabrics and loop transfer

- accurate control of the loops possible

- more gentle & careful loop formation

- not able to move single needles

- only single needle beds

- low productivity

... became pretty much obsolete as soon as the first technically and commercially viable latch needle machines showed up in the market.

[Foxy2]

Nice one Foxy.

Sorry for the dry & academic detour - let me know if you need exact citations...

[Double 0 Soul]

"You clearly have no facts"

[Maynard Friedman]

....waits for abuse questioning my IQ, social credibility, moral fibre, integrity, possible agenda, etc...

Dont forget sexuality.

Indeed. Nothing to do with whatever123 though, I was just expecting my weekly phone call from my parents!

[ordo]

so he deleted all his posts? or did the mods clean after him?

Tyson will sadly no longer be joining us. We took the extraordinary step of deleting his content due to a drop in actual content (there was some there for a time) and a marked rise in trollishness. Shed not a tear, I am sure he will attempt a return should he manage to find another IP somewhere.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

thanks for explaining ordo!

[shoreman]

Great stuff in here. I'll do my best to come back to it all over the next while.

Question, though: What is the consensus concerning the best bang-for-your-buck t-shirt if you're looking to but 5+?

I know Flat Head probably leads the way, but at $130 a pop, it's just not a realistic goal. (For me.)

Edited March 19, 2013 by TresUnCool

[misterjuiceman]

Great stuff in here. I'll do my best to come back to it all over the next while.

Question, though: What is the consensus concerning the best bang-for-your-buck t-shirt if you're looking to but 5+?

I know Flat Head probably leads the way, but at $130 a pop, it's just not a realistic goal. (For me.)

Are people liking Flat Head more than RMC and Strike Gold? Are you interested in 5+ of different colors, or do the 2-packs interest you?

[shoreman]

Truthfully, so long as they are not extravagant colours, 2-packs would be great. (The more versatile the style and colour, the better.)

[misterjuiceman]

Maybe Velva Sheen for two-packs. Might be a bit cheaper than RMC.

[shoreman]

I might give Velva Sheen another try, though I found their sizing to be entirely inconsistent. I've gotta ask: who's RMC?

[misterjuiceman]

The Real McCoy's, Blue in Green has them.

Edited March 19, 2013 by misterjuiceman