Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Dr_Heech]

Great stuff Mike. You make my sufu with this thread.

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[Sansome1877]

wow fantastic! thanks for sharing! still can't get over the idea of something being discarded, untouched by man until some one like you finds it again over a hundred years later!

any news on the book?

Thanks BGB and Heech, I missed the edge of this shirt, sticking out from a stacked up pile of rocks( I walked right by it) My father in law was lucky enough to spot it, when we went separate ways, in this mine we were in, it looks like it was chewed on before the rocks were stacked on the shirt. We are trying to turn the book over in the next three months

[Sansome1877]

[wgmds]

random question, but when did chain stithcing become popular?

[Sansome1877]

random question, but when did chain stithcing become popular?

It sort of looks like, chain stitching started being used, in denim jean/ overall construction, in the teens (1910-20) Chain stitching was invented in the 1850's and another type of chain stitch, was invented in 1870. I was surprised when I saw that I had an 1870's canvas bag, that was chain stitched. I can post a pic of the chain stitched canvas bag, if some one is interested. That's what I know so far.

[eltopo]

Incredible piece Mike! The colors are amazing on this piece.

Pack rats love chewing the shit.... out of this type of fabric.

[killer b]

you should definitely post the canvas bag pic...

wgmds: chain stitching is a levis thing with jeans i think, so you can probably tell when it was brought in by looking at the various LVC models - someone was saying on the lvc thread the other day that the early ones don't have chainstitching...

[Sansome1877]

I've never seen a chain stitch, on a 1800's denim or duck pant. Here is the canvas bag.

[Sansome1877]

Last trip out, we found a sugar bag and an almost complete mattress cover, made of ticking fabric( the cover was used to block the wind, going through a mine door)

[killer b]

old stuff is brilliant. what would the canvas bag be used for?

bit of a derail, but i mentioned ages ago in the thread about a project at my local museum involving a massive archive of victorian textiles from india (the archive dates from 1866) - the exhibition is now up an running, and they've made a website where you can have a look at all 700 samples - i've been browsing this morning and it's pretty interesting. no denim there as far as i can see though...

link here: http://tmoi.org.uk/

[Sansome1877]

old stuff is brilliant. what would the canvas bag be used for?

bit of a derail, but i mentioned ages ago in the thread about a project at my local museum involving a massive archive of victorian textiles from india (the archive dates from 1866) - the exhibition is now up an running, and they've made a website where you can have a look at all 700 samples - i've been browsing this morning and it's pretty interesting. no denim there as far as i can see though...

link here: http://tmoi.org.uk/

Brilliant link, Thanks! The bag was used for silver ore.

[entertainment!]

Broken record time: awesome stuff, Mike.

Maybe I am being dense, but what is going on with this seam? I can't figure it out:

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[zissou]

Looks like a taped seam that is fraying apart?

This thread literally makes me drool every time.

[killer b]

that's the mattress cover isn't it? so it's the edge of the mattress, frayed to fuck.

[Sansome1877]

I am being tortured as I type, by a house full of 10 year old kids. My daughter is having a 13 girl sleep over:eek: Entertainment and zissou... you are looking at the trim around the mattress cover

[killer b]

is it too early to start drinking?

[entertainment!]

Thanks. That makes perfect sense. What a great decorative touch.

[entertainment!]

Mike-- Do you have a sense of when the yoke on Levi's went from being single stitched to double stitched. I had a careful look through your book yesterday and didn't find the answer, but maybe I wasn't concentrating hard enough.

[Sansome1877]

Mike-- Do you have a sense of when the yoke on Levi's went from being single stitched to double stitched. I had a careful look through your book yesterday and didn't find the answer, but maybe I wasn't concentrating hard enough.

It seems like the double needle yolk, came in late 1891, could be 92? I think in 1891 you see a new drawing of the two horse brand, I think you also saw every garment guaranteed, used for the first time . I recently saw a spring bottom pant from 1891, it had the same two horse brand that you see in this ad. BTW this spring bottom pant had no lot numbers on the label, making me think that lot numbers, might not have come out until after 1891?

[Paul T]

great stuff, Mike.

Your book has just appeared on sale at a very trendy London clothes shop, Present.

[Sansome1877]

great stuff, Mike.

Your book has just appeared on sale at a very trendy London clothes shop, Present.

Nice to hear that bit of news^, I think the book is going to be in the Levi flag ship store in S.F.(crossing my fingers on that one) I found out last week, I can get my book cheaper through the big box store, Walmart? You can have the book shipped to any Walmart in the U.S, with no shipping fee's, $21.59 out the door (crazy)

[oomslokop]

this might be a pretty obvious question, but does "white labor" mean caucasian/white american workers? if so, what kind(s) of stereotype was/were attached to "black labor" at that time? and, perhaps more importantly, what does that say about levi's' customers? did they have anything against spring bottom pants made by black labor? or does "white labor" mean something else entirely? thanks Sansome1877! always love your posts!

[rnrswitch]

this might be a pretty obvious question, but does "white labor" mean caucasian/white american workers? if so, what kind(s) of stereotype was/were attached to "black labor" at that time? and, perhaps more importantly, what does that say about levi's' customers? did they have anything against spring bottom pants made by black labor? or does "white labor" mean something else entirely? thanks Sansome1877! always love your posts!

I think the white labor is more geared towards anti-asian sentiment in the west. It is much like anti-hispanic sentiment now.

[Paul T]

this might be a pretty obvious question, but does "white labor" mean caucasian/white american workers? if so, what kind(s) of stereotype was/were attached to "black labor" at that time? and, perhaps more importantly, what does that say about levi's' customers? did they have anything against spring bottom pants made by black labor? or does "white labor" mean something else entirely? thanks Sansome1877! always love your posts!

It was principally about Chinese Americans who were thought to be undercutting labor rates, rather than 'black labor'.

And yes, as rnr says, it's much the same as feelings towards Hispanics in Ca now. There are many species of racism.

TO be fair to LS&Co, they were one of the first companies to run integrated, unionised plants in the 1900s.

[oomslokop]

wasnt there an early denim brand with a chinese name on the patch, maybe somewhere on this thread? was that made by "yellow labor"?

[oomslokop]

thanks for yr answers btw mr t and rnr and how much were the labor rates back then? how much would a unionised worker earn from sewing up jeans?

[Sansome1877]

thanks for yr answers btw mr t and rnr and how much were the labor rates back then? how much would a unionised worker earn from sewing up jeans?

Thanks oomslokop, If I get the answer on those labor rates, I will post it. Paul T and rnr... Thanks for answering the white labor question:)

[Sansome1877]

I think this ad, dates the picture above it. The ad starts in the California papers in June 1896, and runs into 1897.

[oomslokop]

very interesting. again, i wonder how much would they earn at the levi's factory floor. as much as the men? i read in patrick segui's blog (http://segui-riveted.blogspot.com/2011/03/early-1900s-overalls.html) that as the u.s. industrialized factories needed more and more workers and started to employ whole families including children, ie, child labour. i wonder how much of the above picture is image-building, and how much is corporate social responsibility? i am aware that levi's seems to have been pretty good at helping out its workers, like in the often quoted story of employing workers to lay out wooden floors at their factories during the great depression. i guess im very curious about the labor rates/wages because weve got many factories here in indonesia (nike, coca-cola, dont know about levi's actually, etc.), and from experience im kinda always a bit skeptical when factories claim they care abt their workers

[oomslokop]

found this http://www.waytodeal.com/web/asiatexgarmindo/about

cant workout what exactly theyve been making for levis tho