My name is Electrum and I used to like LVC but now I don't really like it anymore...

[roy6]

Let's try this instead, you tell me about your "personal experience" that proves why you think that my personal experience with over pricing, inaccuracy and shoddy quality is is as you said, "not true"?

The LVC Rough 'n' Ready leather jacket from 2003. The top pics are the LVC repro, the bottom are of an original Levis leather jacket that is a an extremely similar (if not the same) model that sold on the Bay last year. You can see the excellent job they did of reconstructing it.

The LVC version was manufactured by Aero in Scotland, a well-thought of company. Their jackets are pricey, a comparable Aero jacket, like the Bootlegger, would have sold for around $800 in 2003 (? ask Dr_Heech). This jacket is also heavily distressed and has nice fine details like a loosened and restitched shoulder seem and a repaired patch on the lower left front. Distressing a jacket is a lot of additional work- if you had ordered one exactly like this from Aero it probably would have been well over $1000. The LVC version was $795 at most places, I think.

The quality is extremely high. It's made with horsehide in an oil pull finish, the flannel lining is immaculate and sturdily stitched. It's a real pleasure to wear, and I fully expect it to last me the rest of my life.

Shortylong also has this jacket I think, or did. He can tell you what he thinks of it.

Just one example.

See also:

PaulT's duck jumper from last season- he posted numerous pictures of it new and after some washes, showing the way it's breaking in, (very nicely) as well as a comparison with an original jumper.

Eltopos 1873 jeans- lots of pictures here and in the Mr.Freedom thread. There are lots of pictures of the original of this jean. An excellent, very convincing repro.

Crownzip's friend's '33s, which have been worn to hell and back and are still holding together and looking amazing, posted about two weeks ago here.

Take the time to look back through this thread and you will find tons of beautiful pieces that are wearing in very well, not falling apart like subpar merchandise would.

I won't debate about pricing. High end clothing costs what it costs, mostly reflecting the design process and name of the manufacturer as well as distribution costs. Might as well spit in the wind.

Regarding your fantasies about me being beaten, you might want to compare notes with almostnice. I think he has those too.

[Paul T]

The M is very trim. I have that jacket in M.

Armpit to armpit is 19 inches - so it's a slim fit if you're a 38 inch chest like me. Waist measurement is 18 inches. Arms are a very decent length. Armpit to wasit is 12 inches (it sits right at belt level on me, I'm 5 ft 9) bottom of collar at back, to bottom hem is 22.25 inches. PM me if you need more fit pics or measurements.

It was made by Aero, I believe. It's not the really heavy leather of a typical Aero jacket but it's terrific purely on the basis of the cut.

I've responded to electrum's point so many times in the past that I'm done, now, so thanks roy. But as he knows, on this thread I and others have detailed where the denim is made, where the cotton comes from, what looms the denim is made on, in what city, with what variations, we've told you where the labels are made, where the jeans are sewn, and where they're washed. But roy's right, he hasn't been told about the rivets, next time I see someone from lvc I'll ask if they involve underpaid immigrants. I personally find rants about this insulting, because it means I've wasted all my time giving you this information in the past, time I'm sure I could have spent more profitably.

Really, if you don't like LVC, don't buy it! I love it because it's unique - no-one makes anything like the 201, or the 333, or the Duck pulover or the 55 jeans, or the 1915 (which has inaccuracies but lovely fabric), at this price. Lee Japan are getting close, but there's nothing like the same amount of quirkiness or invention in their range, altho several of their jeans are better than the LVC equivalent (albeit without any connection to the originals, unlike the LEvi's fabric, which has been made in the same factory for 100 years). There are lots of alternatives for 55-style jeans, some of which are better made (like my SDA103, £300 retail in the UK) but I personally don't love them any more. You might feel different, in which case try some other 50s-style jeans and post your experiences.

I point out that I'm a cheapskate: most of my LVC - like most clothing I buy, comes from sales, wheeler-dealing, or is bought with eBay income. I don't pay out money for anything because it's been marketed to me, i buy things I think have a certain quality, and will last. On that basis I like LVC; you are perfectly entitled not to.

Criticisms of LVC are fine, they could do with improving, the size issues above all - something I told Maurizio Donadi to his face at Cinch, at which point the room seemed to go awfully quiet. But please, spare us repetition of the same questions and rants that are now cropping up with mind-crushingly monotonous regularity.

[Charlie Delta]

After getting totally hosed with the s/s2010 201, I looked into what it will cost to have a tailor custom make a pair of 201s using my worthless LVC 201s as a pattern. The raw selvage denim will cost me anywhere from $3 to $10 per yard based on weight and prices I've seen on ebay and web. I'll have a number of weights to choose from in raw vintage shuttle loom redline, white or blueline selvage material from Cone Mills, Chinese and Japanese manufacturers (my choice) or hold out for original deadstock (real vintage) raw denim for pennies on the dollar that shows up on ebay from time to time. I can get the low quality tin buttons and pressed metal bucles like LVC uses for pennies per dozen from countless sources on the web, but will instead have a friend who's a tool and die expert make authentic (complete w/ Levi's logo) steel, iron, brass or copper (my choice) grommet donut buttons (with baked enamel paint finish), rivets and buckle at no cost. I'll either reuse the linen patch from my LVC 201s or have a buddy of mine easily draw up and silkscreen one with full detail using archive web fotos of original 201 patch as guide/template, as he tells me, at his print shop at no cost. My tailor says he will use the best linen thread (my choice of any colour combo) and piece it all together for $30. So for around $40 to $60 (depending on how much the denim ends up costing) I'll have an authentic pair of "vintage Levi's" made with the finest materials and craftsmanship for around $200 LESS than what a pair of low quality watered down LVC vintage knockoffs will cost me.

Actually, this allows for an interesting exercise.

(please note that the following is a guesstimate only used to get a point across, I will be using some of the numbers you've provided plus I'll will be making some numbers up to illustrate!)

Let's say that your tailormade 201 "reproductions" turn out very nice, so nice even, that you think people might be interested in buying a pair from you.

You decide to make 10 more, and instead of going through the hassle of selling them all yourself, shipping them one by one to your customers, you decide it is best to sell them through a store in Europe.

Your tailor says that if you want to make 10 at once, he will give you a discount, his price per pair goes down to $25, that's a big discount, 5 bucks a pair.

Let's say that you go with a mid priced denim (in your post you say your jeans end up costing between 40 and 60 bucks, we'll go with 45 then), so that your assembled jeans end up costing you $45, minus that $5 discount per pair = $40. Good deal!

You go to your tailor to pick up your 10 jeans, turns out that while your tailor has been making the jeans to the best of his knowledge, one out of the 10 pairs doesn't pass your high quality standard. That's your problem, not the tailor's and you'll have to pay for 10 pairs regardless.

Slight setback, this means that your jeans all of the sudden cost you: 10 x 40 = 400 divided by 9 is $44,44. To keep things easy let's say $45 per pair.

That's doable still...

So, the store you're selling them tells you it is "jeans buying season" and they want them by next week or they simply won't accept them anymore (store's do this kind of stuff...) so you're in a hurry to ship them over.

You decide to send them Express, it gets the jeans to Europe within a couple of days, but it's expensive, say about $140 for a box of 9 (remember denim is quite heavy) that makes $15,56 a jean, that half cent that you rounded up earlier comes in handy here, cancel that against each other and shipping will roughly be 15 bucks a pair.

45 + 15 = $60 per pair to get them into Europe.

As they're being imported into the EU, tax will have to be paid let's say about $10 a pair

Now you're at $70 a pair.

Store's need to pay rent, employees, plus make a little money, so it's quite normal for them to ask 2.2 times what they pay.

70 x 2.2 = $154.

Your customer will end up paying $154

Still decent though, right?

For well made jeans that's quite cheap.

Except that in this scenario, you had your tool & die friend and your printing buddy working for you for free (some "friend" you are...),

you did not factor in your expenses for driving back and forth to the tailor, a sandwich, etc.

Plus, YOU DID NOT MAKE ANY MONEY, you stupid!

I'm not even talking profit here, your own hours, research, ideas etc, you all worked for free...

And technically, if you want to be exact, you should factor in your 201's as a "research investment".

Let's disregard that last line for now, and your friends are ok with doing these small runs for free for you. But still you put a lot of your time and effort into this project so you'd like to make some money with it.

Let's say 20 bucks on every jean (that's not a lot you know, divide that by the approx amount of hours spend on this project and divide that by 9 pairs and you'll probably end up below minimum wage, heh...).

$65 a pair

+ shipping 15

+ tax ,which is more now as the value per jean is higher, let's say 12

=

$92

times 2.2 for the store = $202,4

That's about 50 bucks more than before per pair, just because you need to eat.

So there you have it: 200 dollar jeans!

Not made in a specialized denim factory but by some random tailor. Most likely not chainstitched anywhere. They'd only be available in one size since you didn't bother paying for getting your pattern graded. They won't be your original design. Made with free hardware. With random denim that you picked based on the fact that you "like it", of which you have no clue how it might "behave" btw. They'd be hanging in the store without even having a hangtag, pocket flasher or anything that would in the industry be considered "packaging" since you didn't spend any money on that. Oh, and here's hoping those denim pants sell themselves since you didn't bother to invest anything (remember, time equals money here) in marketing.

And you? You just made yourself 20 bucks, that's actually quite sad isn't it...?

Now, this is a success, so you want to "faithfully reproduce" another pair.

It's not just copy paste, make 10 more.

It's basically starting completely from scratch again since you'll need to source other denim, buttons, a leather patch etc etc.

Also you need to factor in the pair that you will be buying to "rip-off..." add that to the initial costs. If you're not going that route, you'd have to develop a pattern, get it graded, all not for free.

Also your friends might look at you a bit funny if you start making money using the favors you're asking them...

I'm not much of a business genius, but the above seems pretty sound to me, so please stop thinking that on a 200 dollar pair of jeans costs are 10 bucks and the manufacturer puts 190 in his pocket...

Now I have to run to work...

[electrum]

Okay roy6, I understand that LVC has some great stuff out there that I haven't seen and there's no doubt that most LVC selvage denim is high quality. However, you're not saying anything new that provides any proof that my bad costly experiences with LVC jeans are as you said, "not true". Yeah I'm sure the leather on your jacket is top rate, but everything you posted is subjective and does not say anything about what exactly makes these garments worth the high price. High quality leather jackets are over 50% chepaer than they were twenty+ yrs ago because labor is cheaper, distribution chains are more efficient and cost less, materials are more common and cheaper in a more competitive globalized market and that holds true for quality selvage denim and other "high end" clothing materials. That's what I'm getting at, vintage brands are utilizing the advantages of a very efficient and competitive globalized market place to produce garments at a very low cost, marketing them as something special then marking them up 100-200%. You say that is not true, but you cannot offer any evidence other than that you think it's great stuff that's worth the high price. You should do your home work before you try to prove that someone is a liar otherwise you'll look foolish again.

BTW, I do not have fantasies about beating you. I was figuratively saying someone needs to kick your ass until you learn that this board is not all about you or any one person -- it's about everyone. When you go around calling people liars, broken records and martyrs because you disagree with what they say then that kinda makes you appear like you think you're the only person here which ain't too cool.

The LVC Rough 'n' Ready leather jacket from 2003. The top pics are the LVC repro, the bottom are of an original Levis leather jacket that is a an extremely similar (if not the same) model that sold on the Bay last year. You can see the excellent job they did of reconstructing it.

The LVC version was manufactured by Aero in Scotland, a well-thought of company. Their jackets are pricey, a comparable Aero jacket, like the Bootlegger, would have sold for around $800 in 2003 (? ask Dr_Heech). This jacket is also heavily distressed and has nice fine details like a loosened and restitched shoulder seem and a repaired patch on the lower left front. Distressing a jacket is a lot of additional work- if you had ordered one exactly like this from Aero it probably would have been well over $1000. The LVC version was $795 at most places, I think.

The quality is extremely high. It's made with horsehide in an oil pull finish, the flannel lining is immaculate and sturdily stitched. It's a real pleasure to wear, and I fully expect it to last me the rest of my life.

Shortylong also has this jacket I think, or did. He can tell you what he thinks of it.

Just one example.

See also:

PaulT's duck jumper from last season- he posted numerous pictures of it new and after some washes, showing the way it's breaking in, (very nicely) as well as a comparison with an original jumper.

Eltopos 1873 jeans- lots of pictures here and in the Mr.Freedom thread. There are lots of pictures of the original of this jean. An excellent, very convincing repro.

Crownzip's friend's '33s, which have been worn to hell and back and are still holding together and looking amazing, posted about two weeks ago here.

Take the time to look back through this thread and you will find tons of beautiful pieces that are wearing in very well, not falling apart like subpar merchandise would.

I won't debate about pricing. High end clothing costs what it costs, mostly reflecting the design process and name of the manufacturer as well as distribution costs. Might as well spit in the wind.

Regarding your fantasies about me being beaten, you might want to compare notes with almostnice. I think he has those too.

[electrum]

I've responded to electrum's point so many times in the past that I'm done, now, ....

....Really, if you don't like LVC, don't buy it! I love it because it's unique....

Paul there's no doubt that you have and continue to contribute a wealth of knowledge regarding denim and its history to this board. You've saved my ass a number of times on Thai fakes, LVC screw ups and sizing issues and i appreciate all of that. Therefore I'm a bit confused why you try to discredit my view that LVC jeans are not worth anywhere near the price and that for the same price LS&CO can produce a true vintage repro, but will not because they're making a huge profit selling something that is second best. I've provided indisputable facts with sources backing up my claims, whereas you and others here have simply said I'm wrong without backing your assertions up with anything but personal opinions. I think that you're doing this board a disservice by not considering the issues I've presented, thereby leaving newbies vulnarable to losing a lot of money like I as well as others have. I thought that you of all people would at least consider some of the issues that I've pointed out.

[erk]

Did you completely ignore cotton duck's very informed very time consuming post?

Isn't lvc the cheapest option for repro denim? And the only company that even bothers to recreate denim from specific eras?

Get over it and buy something from sugar cane or warehouse.

Everyone here understands that lvc has issues and all that. You're just beating a dead horse.

[electrum]

Yeah I read cottonduck's deal, but his cost estimates are all speculation based on me having my own vintage jeans tailor made which is something I haven't even started on. He's not comparing aples to apples, i.e. LS&CO enormous buying power and leverage.

I don't really know if LVC is the cheapest out there. From others I've experienced , Sugar Cane, Post O'alls and Buzz Rickson they're all over priced and not worth the high premium either considering the low cost of the materials. Isn't that what I've been saying? Anyway I'm still a Levi's man and they do have the coolest designs plus they're real babe magnets.

Who says LVC is 'recreating denim from specific eras'? I've never heard from any official sources or seen any documentation from LS&CO proving that worn out assertion.

I know that everyone here understands that LVC has issues and that it is a beaten dead horse. However, the issues that I have presented are oddly enough never discussed.

Did you completely ignore cotton duck's very informed very time consuming post?

Isn't lvc the cheapest option for repro denim? And the only company that even bothers to recreate denim from specific eras?

Get over it and buy something from sugar cane or warehouse.

Everyone here understands that lvc has issues and all that. You're just beating a dead horse.

[erk]

Paul has spoken about LVCs/Cones attempts at replicating vintage denims and it is mentioned on the tag that came with my 1915s.

Everyone else creates a repro denim and makes all their models out of it-lvc has different shades, textures, and weights( dare I mention). Perhaps I shouldn't have said recreating, seeing as how you seem to take everything to the extreme. Replicating is probably a better word choice.

[dr.house]

Electrum, If you need babe magnets you should go for True Religions, Rock 'n Republic, Diesel or other Guido stuff imo. But real men don't magnetize babes with their clothes, but that's just me.

[Paul T]

Who says LVC is 'recreating denim from specific eras'? I've never heard from any official sources or seen any documentation from LS&CO proving that worn out assertion.

electrum, I've detailed how the 201 fabric was developed, by Stefano Aldighieri working with Kurabo, how the 333 fabric was developed using a Russian loom and extra short-staple cotton, how Cone replicated the new spinning method for the 67 jeans so that the denim on those is slubbier, the differences in weave and names of the 47 vs 55 fabric, and the development of the 1915, with quotes from cone. Oh yeah, and you've had plenty of information about the development of the duck on the new range. Personally, I think it's all a reasonable person would need. I'm happy to update more for the good people who are interested, although I suspect you'll continue to ignore it.

I should point out as well, that there is amazing information on SuFu - on mizza's thread, or on the ROY thread, on which roy6, the man you recently attacked, has posted terrific information. He's contributed - it's great when people do that, isn't it?

Your contribution to SuFu, in contrast, is how you can buy some fabric you've seen on eBay and get your asian tailor to run up a copy that will be better, on whatever sewing machine he has sitting around. So DO IT : prove your assertion that you can do better than LVC, SC, or real McCoy, or Roy Slaper. Prove us all wrong.

[ethandesu]

Woah - some tempers here!

Im new to SuFu, so I don't want to step in where my opinions aren't warranted, but after 15 years of buying and working in the industry, and a day job in tailored menswear, I have some insights that might be pertinent.

I hear what Electrum is saying to a point. LVC's have all the issues of jeans made in the 50's when quality controls weren't to high production standards. Tolerances in modern clothing production can be from 5 to 10mm, meaning garments are incredibly consistent. When I studied tailoring and design, we used CAD pattern making, which has been superceded time and again in 13 short years. Patterns cut in he 40's and 50's would have been blanket cut (20 or 30 layers stacked and cut at a time) from paper patterns. Depending on the angle of the cut or the position in the stack, a pattern piece might be out by over 20mm. So vintage pieces can have huge variances even in the same year and model.

When I met the guys from Levi's (Hello Rikke!) they told me that LVC was the reward for designers who had been with Levi's for years - the best of Levi's technical people. Things may have changed in the last ten years, but if that is still true, invariably these guys would be bringing their own likes and dislikes to the "interpretation" of vintage pieces. From the weights of denim to the qualities of the leather patch to the fits.

I have plenty of LVC. Too much my wife keeps reminding me. I prefer my Samurai's or Evis, but most Japanese makers are making vintage styled jeans in weights and qualities far above the humble workwear origins of Levi's. As much as I like 15oz denim, most customers I speak to prefer 12oz and lower. So LVC would be preferable to most laymen. But then they'd probably prefer a light and comfortable, modern cut jean anyway.

So is LVC worth the money? Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Some guys love the pure indigo wear you get with LVC, or the light weights that wear more easily. Not me, not all the time, but my opinion have no bearing on the value of a product.

Is there a production cost to price ratio in the LVC range? Certainly - the hand finish on the products are incredible, and the real cost that nobody seems to consider - research, product development, QC and pattern grading/making - is much higher when you have a different cut or twenty to worry about every season. Evis is still using patterns developed in the 90's, in fabric and detail that hasn't changed. LVC is making new stuff all the time.

Is LVC a true vintage replica? Sure. According to who, though. We all know how speculative vintage can be. I collect Omegas from the 70's, and even there where there are manuals and production/repair books to go from, people will still bicker over what is more correct. We are talking about runs of workwear that had nowhere near the exacting specifications of a watch.

So if you have to ask if it's worth the money, you've missed the point. But I'm positive that there is something you get Super Maniac over that I wouldnt understand. That's what makes these forums so excellent to attend.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

electrum, I've detailed how the 201 fabric was developed, by Stefano Aldighieri working with Kurabo, how the 333 fabric was developed, how Cone replicated the new spinning method for the 67 jeans, the differences and names of the 47 vs 55 fabric, and the development of the 1915, with quotes from cone.

Your contribution to this thread, in contrast, is how you can buy some fabric on eBay and get your asian tailor to run up a copy that will be better. So do it, and stop repeating yourself!

Dude only hears what he wants to hear...

Although I can understand that he is pissed of blowing a lot of money because of LVC's sizing, but we all are and it's been covered multiple times

[electrum]

I know you've talked a lot (maybe too much) about rubbing shoulders with big time industry insiders about the proprietary development of LVC denim, but I never have seen you post any official sources from LS&CO or anyone else confirming any of your assertions other than the 1915 Cone collaboration. I think you guys get a little carried away over way too many cold ones during your late night denim bull sessions at the local pub to the point you get duped into believing everything they tell you. That fantastic story about the abandoned ancient loom discovered (by denim loom archeologists no doubt?) in a field in Russia that was painstakingly refurbished, shipped to Switzerland then used to manufacture small batches of extrordinary denim exclusively for the 333 is absolutely ridiculous -- you guys must've been really buzzed that night.

You can brag about talking shop with the big shots as much as you want, but us little people like myself have nothing to go by other than the actual LVC jeans that we pay are hard earned money for and those jeans don't reflect what you describe most of the time. If the denim is designed/developed exclusively for LVC for each model era like you say why then is the denim different on two of the four pairs of '47s I've had and why is my 2010 201 denim different from earlier runs?

electrum, I've detailed how the 201 fabric was developed, by Stefano Aldighieri working with Kurabo, how the 333 fabric was developed using a Russian loom and extra short-staple cotton, how Cone replicated the new spinning method for the 67 jeans so that the denim on those is slubbier, the differences in weave and names of the 47 vs 55 fabric, and the development of the 1915, with quotes from cone. Oh yeah, and you've had plenty of information about the development of the duck on the new range. Personally, I think it's all a reasonable person would need. I'm happy to update more for the good people who are interested, although I suspect you'll continue to ignore it.

[Paul T]

I know you've talked a lot (maybe too much) about rubbing shoulders with big time industry insiders... I think you guys get a little carried away over way too many cold ones during your late night denim bull sessions...you guys must've been really buzzed that night.

...You can brag about talking shop with the big shots...

Hey, no need to thank me! Glad to know all that info is appreciated by gracious, open-minded people.

[electrum]

Hey, no need to thank me! Glad to know all that info is appreciated by gracious, open-minded people.

I've thanked you numerous times for many things, what else do you want a medal? Now back on topic, if you will answer my questions: if the denim is designed/developed exclusively for LVC for each model era like you say why then is the denim different on two of the four pairs of '47s I've had and why is my 2010 201 denim different from earlier runs?

Thank you.

[electrum]

I can't understand why you and others here repeatedly say that I'm "bitter" and are always telling me to shut up over and over.? Are you and your followers the board's self designated Gestapo? Hell I'm just here to post my thoughts and experiences about LVC jeans just like anyone else. I do get a bit turned off with people like you who with what seems like the emotional intelligence of a 12-year-old whining and insulting anyone who doesn't think they way you tell them to think. Insult me and I'll dish it right back ten fold was my MO but no more, I'm tired of lowering myself to your petty level.

However, I do agree that you're exactly right, you should get what you pay for. Now you tell me, if you pay $220 for a pair of jeans that's made with denim that cost Levi's $3-$4 per yrd., with synthetic thread along with made in Cina thin leather patches, rivets, tin capped shank buttons painted with fake bronce glitter paint are you getting what you pay for? It doesn't tak an Masters in economics to see that LVC jeans are not worth the price. Since you just had to ask I answered again, now you can tell me to shut up, throw another temper tantrum full of insults and ask me again.

Damn, has it been a month ALREADY? Like a goddamned clock-work electrum I actually have to give you props.

Listen dude, LVC isn't a museum visit where you get in for the price of cheap admission and a bunch of denim heads go ape shit at how 100% accurate the curators have recreated an exhibit. It's a got dam business. As such, they're in it to win it and make profit. Now I'm not a business major, but something tells me that, if I'm paying less than what they are priced at by a significant amount (sounds like thats what you want, right?), I might be shopping at walmart.

Why are you so bitter about a company trying to make profit? Do you expect LVC to start pricing their jeans in the same range as their Levi's Strauss Signature line? Just let it go buddy. Notch one in the loss column and maybe start making your own repros, theres no chance you'll fvck it up then right? You'll get every detail down and price it so you won't make any profit. Now I know my rant + everyone else's pleading for you to just STFU will fall on deaf ears but seriously

[electrum]

A couple of days ago I posted a new topic for discussion and a certain group of board regulars turned into an angry mob hell bent on silencing and discrediting me using whatever means necessary because they apparently did not like what I said about LVC jeans. My words were taken out of context, twisted then used against me, I was called a bitch, liar, martyr, blah, blah, blah and endured an endless series of ridiculous childish personal attacks all for simply posting my honest opinion about LVC without offending anyone. in any way. It's not just me, there was a dude here recently who posted about his dad getting employee discounts for LVC jeans and he was put down and pretty much called a liar by the same goons, there have been others too who've been run off this board for no reason many times. It's pretty obvious this thread is slanted. Yep, look out, if you don't march in lock-step to the sufu LVC party line as dictated by certain board members they will do whatever it takes to suppress your thoughts and exclude you from further participation.

This board embraces censorship, conformity and ostracizes people who present ideas/opinions that go against the norm dictated by a few self serving members all of which is un-American and twisted bs. Those few members present themselves as friendly laid back cool non conformists in the spirit of freedom and sharing, when actually they're elitist fakes with inflated ego's with their own personal agenda. They welcome everyone with open arms who follow there lead, but as soon as you deviate from their dictated lead they will stab you in the back in a second. Some are more subtle than others in their tactics but their goal is always the same -- control. If you're looking for diversity of thoughts, free speech and civil discussions with a nice group of people who are open to sharing like-minded info in a fair/reasonable setting that is open to everyone regardless of how they like or dislike LVC you sure as hell won't find it here. Yeah a real piece of work this board is, its motto should be: Conform or be Cast out!

[sayocean]

"a couple of days ago" was the very first time you posted a "discussion" huh? Wish sufu had some type of filter/ignore setting... Sometimes sheer stupidity is hard to "ignore" mentally alone.

[Tarmac]

ten charssssss

[Flash]

i wish people would knock this on the head , if someone posts something you dont like ignore it cause this is slowly killing the thread

[sayocean]

Un-american? wtf

^ha yeh i read that and I literally laughed out loud. wtf is this, 1950s McCarthy Era redux? I can't imagine what he thinks of the whole Levi's RED line.

Hey Thin Finn, those 44s are looking great, +rep when I can sir! Also, are you noticing any "wear/chipping" of the painted arcuate? Got a pair on ice and im tempted to go soak it today and start wearing it after seeing your picture

[beautiful_FrEaK]

"a couple of days ago" was the very first time you posted a "discussion" huh? Wish sufu had some type of filter/ignore setting... Sometimes sheer stupidity is hard to "ignore" mentally alone.

Sufu has an ignore button..just click his profile and there it is

[LFC4ever]

Would it be correct to say that you think thyey're shit and overpriced and a lot of others think they're flawed and quite expensive?

[cheapmuthafukr]

A couple of days ago I posted a new topic for discussion and a certain group of board regulars turned into an angry mob hell bent on silencing and discrediting me using whatever means necessary because they apparently did not like what I said about LVC jeans. My words were taken out of context, twisted then used against me, I was called a bitch, liar, martyr, blah, blah, blah and endured an endless series of ridiculous childish personal attacks all for simply posting my honest opinion about LVC without offending anyone. in any way. It's not just me, there was a dude here recently who posted about his dad getting employee discounts for LVC jeans and he was put down and pretty much called a liar by the same goons, there have been others too who've been run off this board for no reason many times. It's pretty obvious this thread is slanted. Yep, look out, if you don't march in lock-step to the sufu LVC party line as dictated by certain board members they will do whatever it takes to suppress your thoughts and exclude you from further participation.

This board embraces censorship, conformity and ostracizes people who present ideas/opinions that go against the norm dictated by a few self serving members all of which is un-American and twisted bs. Those few members present themselves as friendly laid back cool non conformists in the spirit of freedom and sharing, when actually they're elitist fakes with inflated ego's with their own personal agenda. They welcome everyone with open arms who follow there lead, but as soon as you deviate from their dictated lead they will stab you in the back in a second. Some are more subtle than others in their tactics but their goal is always the same -- control. If you're looking for diversity of thoughts, free speech and civil discussions with a nice group of people who are open to sharing like-minded info in a fair/reasonable setting that is open to everyone regardless of how they like or dislike LVC you sure as hell won't find it here. Yeah a real piece of work this board is, its motto should be: Conform or be Cast out!

no... the people here dont like assholes who try to make a thread about LVC into their own personal bitch-fest. if you dont like LVC, then dont buy it and shut up. others obliviously like it alot, even with the "problems" that you talk about.

maybe you should start a thread called "LVC is a shitty brand and we should all boycott it till they fix my concerns." i can assure you that 99% of the people in this thread will ignore it and youll be able to bitch all you want.

[electrum]

Me bitching? ha, ha that's a joke, I just posted a few questions and opinions about the high price of LVC then defended myself against the wave of personal attacks that followed. You and the power elite on this board obviously didn't approve and haven't shut up about it since. Now here you go again, can't you just drop it or do you enjoy it so much that you can;t stop? Why don't YOU save us from even more pain and misery by stopping your off topic ranting and consider moving on by starting your own thread? An appropriate title: The Elitist Whine, Discredit and Insult Everyone 24/7 Who Do Not Conform thread.

That's it from me I ain't brigin' any of this crap up again -- I'm sticking with talking about jeans from now on and I hope you and your kind will too. Thanks.

"If your jeans look cool, but you are not cool then you become a horrible contradiction."

no... the people here dont like assholes who try to make a thread about LVC into their own personal bitch-fest. if you dont like LVC, then dont buy it and shut up. others obliviously like it alot, even with the "problems" that you talk about.

maybe you should start a thread called "LVC is a shitty brand and we should all boycott it till they fix my concerns." i can assure you that 99% of the people in this thread will ignore it and youll be able to bitch all you want.

[Leonard Leroy]

lololololololol

[cheapmuthafukr]

so, my 33s never shrank. they were a couple inches oversized. they seemed thin to me too, and i felt they would be prone to quick tearing. one year later and they look great and have worn even better, tho they are a little baggy. perfect for construction work in the florida summer.

pics as soon as i get a chance.

[Paul T]

My compliments to whoever assembled this thread from the cutting room floor. It's a masterpiece.

I especially like the smiley emoticon which sells the content so very aptly.

[xchen]

in b4 lock.

[roy6]

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