Fake 1937s on ebay???

[bozoburner]

I already said I didn't think they were 1937 repros....geez. You guys are definitely spun out.

Your not even bozo enough for me to go into burner mode...later doods, dudes, ....toodaloo!

[ultra_V]

im not here to argue or put anyone down.. or get in a forum war..

and being a big fan of articles of clothing showing the selvedge i must interject this comment

come on now... you say thats a fake selvedge? your trippen.. its not overlocked.. and its not a cheesey piece of crappy fabric sewn on.. soo therefore its a selvedge..

fake to levis exact 1937? prolly.. but get your terms right

[rnrswitch]

No it isn't overlocked, nor is it sewn on, but it is cut denim with a redline to make it look selvedge. You need to get your "terms" straight. Dood.

[rnrswitch]

Here is a link to the picture of the selvedge the seller sent me. It is slightly closer up. There is no question this junk is fake.

http://img393.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fakeselvedge0ga.jpg

You should overlock that junk, so it won't fall apart.

[ultra_V]

yo mr. condescending.. whats up with the "DOOD"

well anyways.. i do appreciate your kindness in informing me how wrong i apparently am..

just from my knowledge from taking a textile class and hearing from a teacher.. and being in the industry**.. that is a selvedge.. i mean.. its a finished edge(yes frayed, but doesnt pass the red, does it? coincidence? maybe.) OH, and i recieved a few yards for denim construction, from a certain mill the actually supplied levis with there selvedge denim that ran on the 30 inch looms..

look what there selvedge looked like? and the red did come before the blue..

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5754843117656372000po.jpg

what is a selvedge? the finishing that runs perpendicular to the weft and parallel to the warp direction of the fabric.

regarding my credibility:

**(i know you prolly dont believe this.. cause there is no way for me to prove it, but here:academy of art, BA in fashion design, minor in textiles, SF CA, one of the few that require textile)

P.S. yoo there is no reason to be supercilious, we are all friends here, we live and respect the same lifestyle, we have similar interests.. no need to hate "DOOOD"

i didnt supply the mills name for reasons i dont care to share

but disregard all of this cause im jsut stupid and i dont know what im talking about..

selvedge:

definition is 1. nonfraying edge of fabric: an edge of a piece of fabric that is woven so that it will not fray

Edited by ultra_V on Jan 7, 2006 at 11:18 PM

[Paul T]

Ultra V, the ONLY mill that suppplied redline selvage to Levi's is COne Mills. Their selvage looks totally different - it has a woven, self-edge, it's not frayed at the edge. Having a frayed edge doesn't necessarily mean that the denim is rubbish, but it demonstrates it's not conventional Levi's selvage fabric, and that it's almost certainly made on a wide, projectile loom, rather than Cone's narrow shuttle loom. The other pic you've shown is how 201 LEvi's denim should look - blue selvage line, no fraying.

There are many other signs that these are fakes, including that detail photo. The hem should be chain stitch. The back cinch is the wrong shape and looks from the photo to be placed too low. The shape of the back yoke looks wrong- it should be deeper. The two horse patch looks too small. The back pocket acruate is totally the wrong shape, sown on a different sewing machine, the back pockets look to have the wrong stitching on the edges, and look toally the wrong shape. AS far as I can tell from the photo, the whole shape and cut of the jeans is wrong. If these were genuine 1939 LVC 501 repros, they would have a pocket 'flasher' proclaiming the rivets were still on the back packets. Really, these look like generic modern jeans with a back cinch added for spurious authenticity.

PS: most LVC repros carry either a 555 code - or, if more recent, have either a 43 or blank buttons.

There are two items on these jeans which look vaguely like genuine LVC, the 'oilcloth' guarantee patch saying 'this is a pair of Levi's', and the brown sticker which tell you how much they shrink. Everything else bears little or no resemblance to anything LVC has ever produced.

Edited by Paul T on Jan 8, 2006 at 08:46 AM

[sybaritical]

Hey Mr.T I asked you this before but never got a reply, so I'll try again now as it's seems to be a hot topic - my 37's have 643M stamped on the button- what's that about?

[Paul T]

That's fairly common, particularly from a couple of years ago - it's a US factory, which could well be a Levi's one, but I have no evidence for definite.

[rnrswitch]

Quote:

yo mr. condescending.. whats up with the "DOOD"

well anyways.. i do appreciate your kindness in informing me how wrong i apparently am..

just from my knowledge from taking a textile class and hearing from a teacher.. and being in the industry**.. that is a selvedge.. i mean.. its a finished edge(yes frayed, but doesnt pass the red, does it? coincidence? maybe.) OH, and i recieved a few yards for denim construction, from a certain mill the actually supplied levis with there selvedge denim that ran on the 30 inch looms..

look what there selvedge looked like? and the red did come before the blue..

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5754843117656372000po.jpg

what is a selvedge? the finishing that runs perpendicular to the weft and parallel to the warp direction of the fabric.

regarding my credibility:

**(i know you prolly dont believe this.. cause there is no way for me to prove it, but here:academy of art, BA in fashion design, minor in textiles, SF CA, one of the few that require textile)

P.S. yoo there is no reason to be supercilious, we are all friends here, we live and respect the same lifestyle, we have similar interests.. no need to hate "DOOOD"

i didnt supply the mills name for reasons i dont care to share

but disregard all of this cause im jsut stupid and i dont know what im talking about..

selvedge:

definition is 1. nonfraying edge of fabric: an edge of a piece of fabric that is woven so that it will not fray

Edited by ultra_V on Jan 7, 2006 at 11:18 PM

--- Original message by ultra_V on Jan 7, 2006 11:17 PM

Yo Ultra_V,

Sorry for coming off condescending, but i guess i was feeling attacked by some folks on here who didn't exactly know what they were talking about. The picture of the selvedge you posted is true selvedge and will usually fray through time and wear, but the selvedge should not be frayed when the jeans are brand new. Once again sorry for the tone of my previous post.

[ultra_V]

PAUL T... uhhh that picture i supplied is from cone mill buddy.

[nairb49]

this is better than harry potter

nairb49

[witts]

this is better than riding bozoburner's mom wearing his fake levis and no condom

. owned

[the black arm]

ultra-v is right in the sense that the industry term "selvage" generally refers to the length-wise edges of a peice of fabric that is woven differently/stronger than the body of the fabric to be somewhat a protective edge for the body of the fabric. It can be fringe (as the fake '37 levi's picutre shows earlier), tucked in, and as usually referred to on this board, woven, which is created by a shuttle loom. as paul t said, the frayed selvage on the fake '37 levi's shows the denim was probably woven on a projectile loom; that denim has real selvage, it's just real fringe selvage, not real woven selvage, which is a characteristic of real lvc shuttle loom denim.

ultra_v, it seems to me that paul t is agreeing with you, that the picture of the denim you show is how the 201 LEvi's SHOULD look, ie. if it's levi denim in that picutre you show then it is cone mill shuttle loom denim.

for comparison, here is the image you provided and the one provided by the fake '37 levi's . . there is definitely a difference in the type of selveage of both denims.

Ultra_v pic

fake '37 pic

Edited by the black arm on Jan 8, 2006 at 01:21 PM

[rnrswitch]

Quote:

PAUL T... uhhh that picture i supplied is from cone mill buddy.

--- Original message by ultra_V on Jan 8, 2006 12:27 PM

I think Paul T was saying that. He just said that cone mills redline selvedge is not frayed as is the case with the picture i posted. So by Paul T's reasoning. If only cone mills supplies levis with redline selvage and cone mills selvage is not frayed, and the selvage from my picture is redline and frayed, then the denim does not come from cone mills nor are those jeans levis.

[rnrswitch]

I was wondering. Would it be possible to produce the denim from the fake '37s by weaving the denim on wide looms and then almost every 30 inches introduce undyed (or white) yarns lengthwise with a red strip in the middle somewhere and just continue this pattern until the large denim fabric is finished. Then one could cut the denim along the white yarns every 30 inches to give the perception of a selvage line? Wouldn't this lead to a denim with a redline fuzzy edge?

[Paul T]

To wrap this one up, the seller has emailed me and seems to concede these jeans are not right; he says he will get the OK from Levi's before he sells any more.

It depresses me that eBay - this seller hopefully excepted - is becoming such a forum for dodgy merchandise.

And thanks for everyone who answered on my behalf. V's blue selvage is how Cone fabric should look. The denim on the eBay fakes looks very different. As has been pointed out here before, the edge of projective loom fabric can be termed selvage, but 'selvage denim' is universally understood to stand for narrow loom-produced denim with a 'closed selvage'.

[rnrswitch]

Also, to sum up. I don't think the seller was really trying to pull a fast one on anybody. He had a high seller rating and that doesn't come from selling dodgy materials. I think he just got ahold of fakes somehow and was told they were real.

[ultra_V]

ahaha good conclusion..

[damnIam]

Fake or not that selvage looked wack as hell

[rnrswitch]

A quick trip down memory lane. Ohhh the good ole days of ignorance.

[Sansome1877]

A quick trip down memory lane. Ohhh the good ole days of ignorance.

Crazy!! Is Bozoburner still around these parts?

[rnrswitch]

Crazy!! Is Bozoburner still around these parts?

Oh, no no no no, he came out of the woodwork to defend himself as i believe we all thought he was the seller as well.

[Sansome1877]

Did some one make you guys retract some of your posts? Seems like every one calmed down all of a sudden?

[poly800rock]

i love it, this was still the era when people heard of selvedge, but never handled it.

[rnrswitch]

Did some one make you guys retract some of your posts? Seems like every one calmed down all of a sudden?

I think it got out of hand pretty fast and then we all calmed down after the seller realized he was selling fakes.

[DrMoBueno]

Well, here they are - the 1998 LVC 1933 201 repros. They've sat in a cupboard in my parents house back in the UK for the last 4 years, and I never really wore them enough before that, as they were always a little too tight in the crotch. Now, sadly, it's going to be a while before I can even fit into them again. The last four years living in the US have not been kind to my waistline, and I can't do up the top two buttons!

I always remember the selvedge being red, but it's actually pink, similar to an old pair of 501s I have, and my old Evis diacock.

From the LVC thread. Mislabeled as 1933s in this post, later id'ed as 1937s by Paul T and airfrogusmc.

Interesting to compare the photos to the jeans in question in this thread. Hard to see how this guy defended himself.

Despite the errors in execution, I believe these are the best pair of jeans Levi's produced in this line.

I happen to have a pair of these in my closet, minty-mint. Ridiculously under-sized.

Have never touched water, tagged size 30, measured size 28.

[Paul T]

With these jeans, you don't even need to look at the selvage to know they're OK - you simply check the hems.