Question that I can't seem to find an answer for.

[jays978]

Hey guys,

I was just sitting here and wondering: Why did most if not all the Japanese Denim makers try or tried to emulate Levi's Jeans? I've read through a lot of posts and no one really seemed to asked or answer this question. Besides, trying to repro the jeans of years passed, what else is the reason? From my impressions, the Japanese are usually striving for innovation, always "ahead of the game" in everything they do, and always setting the trends. But why this route when making Japanese denim? Of course the arctuates and tabs are appealing to me also as a form of rebellion so to speak. Feel free to discuss!

[sidneylo]

You need to dig a little deeper.

[jays978]

Thanks sidney, but you seem to be a good source. Why don't you enlighten me on this matter?

[m1sterko]

you need to read more...

but one answer to that question is:

its an homage to the legacy of levis.

they're not trying to rip off levis or anything, its just sharing and expressing the passion for denim to people all around the world.

[sidneylo]

I think we're juking the perception of bleeding edge Japanese in the larger market of fashion. Consider the bias that you'll find on this website toward most things Japanese, as well as lingering notions of Orientalism in fashion or otherwise, and you'll see that it's not quite so black and white on the difference you're noticing with repro denim vs. high fashion (which is what I'm inferring from your post).

If you're looking for the deep reason behind a lot of the Americana obsession and are willing to get a bit historical fluffy with it (and intellectual), you could start with World War II and work your way from there.

[fndmybetterhalf]

Hey guys,

I was just sitting here and wondering: Why did most if not all the Japanese Denim makers try or tried to emulate Levi's Jeans? I've read through a lot of posts and no one really seemed to asked or answer this question. Besides, trying to repro the jeans of years passed, what else is the reason? From my impressions, the Japanese are usually striving for innovation, always "ahead of the game" in everything they do, and always setting the trends. But why this route when making Japanese denim? Of course the arctuates and tabs are appealing to me also as a form of rebellion so to speak. Feel free to discuss!

um excuse me but did you just generalize roughly 10-15 japanese denim brands as being the entire denim market in japan? there are literally millions of other denim brands that dont try to emulate Levis or any repro-esq denim at all.

[jays978]

I think we're juking the perception of bleeding edge Japanese in the larger market of fashion. Consider the bias that you'll find on this website toward most things Japanese, as well as lingering notions of Orientalism in fashion or otherwise, and you'll see that it's not quite so black and white on the difference you're noticing with repro denim vs. high fashion (which is what I'm inferring from your post).

If you're looking for the deep reason behind a lot of the Americana obsession and are willing to get a bit historical fluffy with it (and intellectual), you could start with World War II and work your way from there.

I'm not trying to compare repro Japanese denim to anything. I am just asking about what their mindset/reason was on emulating Levi's in their branding. I have goten two good answers:

1) The Americana obsession .

2) Homage to the classic pioneers of denim.

Sorry for saying most if not all Japanese denim brands. I should've said brands widely discussed on this forum. I guess living in America, I wasn't exposed and forgot about a lot people's love for everything American around the world.

[sidneylo]

Sorry for saying most if not all Japanese denim brands. I should've said brands widely discussed on this forum. I guess living in America, I wasn't exposed and forgot about a lot people's love for everything American around the world.

It's not just obsession, it's also a byproduct of Imperialism.

[jays978]

Hmm,,,but America never occupied the Japanese for a period of time. Correct me if I'm worng but sure they put sanctions on them after WWII, but never occupied and directly influenced them. If you're talking about a world view, yes I completely agree. =)

[sidneylo]

Japan is still ‘occupied’ by American Armed Forces to this day as per the Treaty of Occupation and Security, if that changes your view on things.

[blm14]

It's not just obsession, it's also a byproduct of Imperialism.

Greater asia co-prosperity sphere!

[sybaritical]

It's just jeans.

Three holes, couple pockets and a zip or some buttons.

Meh.

[sidneylo]

Is he wearing denim undeware?

[kauflust]

Hmm,,,but America never occupied the Japanese for a period of time. Correct me if I'm worng but sure they put sanctions on them after WWII, but never occupied and directly influenced them. If you're talking about a world view, yes I completely agree. =)

YOU FAIL AT HISTORY.

The reforms during the Allied Occupation of Japan from 1945 and 1952 imposed on the country a constitutional democracy and brought about many significant social, economic, and political changes....

The Allied Occupation of Japan occupies a unique place in the history of the world, being the only time an occupying force tried to democratize another nation by instituting sweeping political, social, and economic reforms. The U.S. had a "sense of urgency that the country should not only be 'democratized' to prevent the reemergence of militarism, but simultaneously immunized against a rising tide of communist influence" (Dower 1999, 75). Since the U.S. completely dominated the Allied Occupation, the democratic transformation had its foundation on the American model.

The Japanese political leadership only acceded to the imposition of this radical agenda of democratization because they had almost no power to stop it. Japan had effectively been subjected to an unconditional surrender to end the war, and many of the most influential Japanese political leaders in late 1945 and early 1946 still feared trial and punishment for their role in the war, so they could not press their opposition very far. Although called an Allied Occupation, the Americans completely dominated the leadership and decision making. Moreover, General Douglas MacArthur, as Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers (SCAP), could issue directives, both formally and informally, that had to be obeyed by the Japanese leaders and populace.

source

[tweeds]

I was just sitting here and wondering

yes, that is often the problem.

Of course the arctuates and tabs are appealing to me also as a form of rebellion so to speak.

what on earth does this mean?

skirting the socio-political implications of the topic...it's strange how indigo and cotton twill in the american timeline has been grafted onto the japanese ai-zome tradition and spawned the creature we know as "repro" denim.

a byproduct of imperialism, certainly, but perhaps also a resucitation of the tradition?

never thought id see the day when the words "marxist dialectic" will be uttered in superfuture .....all i need to see now is some "cultural hegemony" ..

CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY CULTURAL HEGEMONY

[plongin]

a byproduct of imperialism, certainly, but perhaps also a resucitation of the tradition?

resucitation? or early signs of globalization?

[aho]

resucitation? or early signs of globalization?

globalization or rooted cosmopolitanism? glocalization? better yet, hybridization??? jays878, I hope this isn't another "so I'm working on a research paper" thread...:eek:

[indigo_junkie]

From my impressions, the Japanese are usually striving for innovation, always "ahead of the game" in everything they do, and always setting the trends.

I've always thought of the Japanese as being the ones who make a better mousetrap. Cheaper, better quality cars, cameras, radios etc... There's that story about how the Japanese bought a Ford engine, tore it apart and then built a cleaner running version with better fuel economy. When the Ford engineers tore the Japanese engine apart to find out what they did, they found that the quality tolerances were 10 times higher than American standards - or something like that. So I'm not too sure about the setting trends thing.

btw, in before the move to supertrash.

[jays978]

globalization or rooted cosmopolitanism? glocalization? better yet, hybridization??? jays878, I hope this isn't another "so I'm working on a research paper" thread...:eek:

lol...no man I just wanted my question answered.

[jays978]

I've always thought of the Japanese as being the ones who make a better mousetrap. Cheaper, better quality cars, cameras, radios etc... There's that story about how the Japanese bought a Ford engine, tore it apart and then built a cleaner running version with better fuel economy. When the Ford engineers tore the Japanese engine apart to find out what they did, they found that the quality tolerances were 10 times higher than American standards - or something like that. So I'm not too sure about the setting trends thing.

btw, in before the move to supertrash.

I was thinking about more of the Technology world bro. And about cars,Toyota released the Prius, which is the best selling hybrid car, comanding prices higher than MSRP on ebay and on secondary markets for some time. The story you're referring is just that...one story. It's ridiculous how I ask one question and suddenly the responders become denim experts. We're all here to talk, discuss, and learn from each other. So please let me do that in peace, if you don't mind.

[Charlie Delta]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Japan has a long culture of taking something (everything?) from somewhere else and perfecting it.

Also you make an expensive sounding topic in Superdenim and you're not happy when people go deep into the material?

I'd say go read some more before you start a new topic, start here.

[jays978]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Japan has a long culture of taking something (everything?) from somewhere else and perfecting it.

Also you make an expensive sounding topic in Superdenim and you're not happy when people go deep into the material?

I'd say go read some more before you start a new topic, start here.

Thanks Cotton Duck, but I've read through that thread already and it does not shed light on history of denim or things along those lines. Maybe you should start one since you sound like an all-knowing source ?

[Charlie Delta]

Yes and maybe you should shut up since you sound like a troll?

[modual]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Japan has a long culture of taking something (everything?) from somewhere else and perfecting it.

Visvim springs to mind