australia :: melbourne :: shopping

[penis]

^hah yeah, tentative for now, but if this gets done it will probably have a made in vietnam tag.

[fenrost]

sounds good, penis (what happened to seksu..?)

also, to those who are interested :

http://www.lmff.com.au/2011-cultural-program/event-id/21

featuring designers like piere cardin, thom browne, hedi slimane, vivienne westwood, van walters, rick owens. etc.

[jaac]

I think the idea sounds solid, being from Canberra i think if you got a name and had good shipping practices etc i would shop from your frequently. Postage costs definately make me reconsider allot of purchases, especially for single items like 1 ocbd or something where im footing like 20% of the items cost in postage.

[conqueror]

I think the idea sounds solid, being from Canberra i think if you got a name and had good shipping practices etc i would shop from your frequently. Postage costs definately make me reconsider allot of purchases, especially for single items like 1 ocbd or something where im footing like 20% of the items cost in postage.

yeah, this is a huge deal with overseas stuff - especially (for whatever reason) with buying shit from the US. so many things i pass on just because of how crazy the shipping is. within australia though i don't think it would be a problem whatsoever, even express post isn't that much.

[lotek01]

will have more input when i have the time, but i think it'd work even if it's just the label in legit stores. closest comparisons are stuff like vanishing elephant and weathered and i know that the lower priced items are the bread and butter for stores like incu.

[penis]

sounds good, penis (what happened to seksu..?)

got banned =/ for saying "ban hap" i was joking of course ..

I think the idea sounds solid, being from Canberra i think if you got a name and had good shipping practices etc i would shop from your frequently. Postage costs definately make me reconsider allot of purchases, especially for single items like 1 ocbd or something where im footing like 20% of the items cost in postage.

yeah i totally get you, im exactly the same so it will definitely factor in to the plan.

will have more input when i have the time, but i think it'd work even if it's just the label in legit stores. closest comparisons are stuff like vanishing elephant and weathered and i know that the lower priced items are the bread and butter for stores like incu.

thanks. yeah we are definitely aiming for something similar in aesthetic to vanishing elephant, or maybe a simpler opening ceremony kind of thing. and incu is a perfect place to be stocked, they seem to be going towards that preppy, sporty kind of vibe, which fits our vision perfectly.

i really would love to hear more guys, all the input is really appreciated. especially if you have concerns about the idea, cos sometimes we think we are just so absorbed into it that we're overlooking critical factors, so new perspectives are always appreciated (Y)

[Ivans On High]

Are you aiming to be stocked at Incu, or only sell through your own store/online? Vanishing Elephant is run by the Incu guys isn't it? They might not be willing to take on a new label which sells to the same market and is close in aesthetic.

[savage science fiction]

got banned =/ for saying "ban hap" i was joking of course ..

yeah i totally get you, im exactly the same so it will definitely factor in to the plan.

thanks. yeah we are definitely aiming for something similar in aesthetic to vanishing elephant, or maybe a simpler opening ceremony kind of thing. and incu is a perfect place to be stocked, they seem to be going towards that preppy, sporty kind of vibe, which fits our vision perfectly.

i really would love to hear more guys, all the input is really appreciated. especially if you have concerns about the idea, cos sometimes we think we are just so absorbed into it that we're overlooking critical factors, so new perspectives are always appreciated (Y)

Your plan sounds good in theory and is definitely something I can see doing well in Aus. However , there are a few things that come to mind after reading your posts.

First is your price point. I am unsure on how you are going to achieve such a low price point with decent quality. The reason I say this is if you look at a label like uniqlo or vanishing elephant, they have the distribution channels to support their mass market production. Uniqlo has stores worldwide and vanishing elephant have general pants stores Aus wide, Incu, plus boutiques and worldwide online retailing. This mass produced product enables them to charge such a low price. Also remember you will have to order fabric which in most cases has minimums for bulk production, and if you cannot meet these minimums you will have to pay a surcharge.

Similarly you have to factor trims (zippers, buttons, swing tags etc)

and the cost of dying fabric whatever colour you want it. All of this is on top of make price which might also require you to produce a certain number of styles ( i don't know the situation with your factory so this is just from my perspective)

So in saying all this i think you will need more than an online store if you want to get your prices to such a low price point.

Also,have you dealt with production overseas? If you are working from Vietnam do you have someone who can be in charge of QC? (Can the factory speak english or can u speak viet?)

Are you making samples here then sending to them for production or are they making samples there etc

the list goes on and on

My advice to you is to write a proper business plan if you haven't already.

Otherwise you are going to encounter a few problems especially if you have no experience in this area

Not trying to be neg, so I hope this helps

[kuugaia]

^ I agree.

There needs to be a sustainable competitive advantage that your label has over its competitors in order for it to last, not just peak during this 'window period'. And as stated above, a wide color palette isn't one of them considering many competitors have economies of scale at their side.

From the way I see it, you're looking at doing quality items for a reasonable price with good cuts and a variety of colors. Yes there's definitely a gap in this market for Australia at the moment...but once it gets filled up by bigger companies (Uniqlo/Muji) what's going to happen? Not only will they have more range of items, but they will also have better 'value for money'. You just can't beat mass production in terms of pricing. So you're going to have to offer something else besides 'good price range' for a quality product that you will have less profit margin on.

I'm by no means an expert in any of this, just voicing concerns. But I say go for it after it's well planned out and you have something to bring to the table that nobody else has. Had to type this response in haste, sorry for the jibberish.

[sensible shoes]

can anyone suggest any places that have a nice range of mens jewelry around the $300 mark, suited to someone who dresses pretty casual most of the time???

[eyeball knight]

If anyone is selling Song for the Mute s/s items, hit me up!

[penis]

Are you aiming to be stocked at Incu, or only sell through your own store/online? Vanishing Elephant is run by the Incu guys isn't it? They might not be willing to take on a new label which sells to the same market and is close in aesthetic.

this is really the crossroads we are at right now as a group. do we want to be primarily a STORE? or do we want to be a LABEL? and we've gone through the pros and cons of each. in short form we kind of came to the conclusion that the potential of this idea/concept could really meet its full potential if we open a brick and mortar store pushing our own label. we can really foresee the concept taking off and especially since we would be a small label compared to others, allowing people to have that physical space to touch, feel, experience the clothing first hand would be invaluable especially since our quality would be significantly emphasised. the massive con however is the startup cost required for such a large endeavour is extremely high = risk is extremely high.

as a label, trying to get consignment in stores like FAT and incu etc., there are a lot of cons. we really dislike the idea that we have no control over the label image, and its pretty much at the discretion of the store itself. but we are also pretty naive in this respect, because we really dont know what the deals are like with FAT for example and the labels they stock. this is something we realllllly would love to learn more about and would really help us. do you guys know how the terms of agreement work? as example, is it "okay we like your label, we'll agree to stock x amount of items for x amount of months and we'll take 20% of each unit sold" (just made that up haha)? i remember James Vincent's line of leather jackets got stocked in FAT so maybe someone could shed some light on this. really just trying to get some general information right now so it would be really helpful.

so in the end we are really just pushing and pulling with this right now trying to get this grounded. and yeah, we agree incu would probably reject stocking us against their own house label. FAT on the otherhand have a culture of supporting australian based designers so we can kind of see them taking the risk, but again nothing is for certain.

Your plan sounds good in theory and is definitely something I can see doing well in Aus. However , there are a few things that come to mind after reading your posts.

First is your price point. I am unsure on how you are going to achieve such a low price point with decent quality. The reason I say this is if you look at a label like uniqlo or vanishing elephant, they have the distribution channels to support their mass market production. Uniqlo has stores worldwide and vanishing elephant have general pants stores Aus wide, Incu, plus boutiques and worldwide online retailing. This mass produced product enables them to charge such a low price. Also remember you will have to order fabric which in most cases has minimums for bulk production, and if you cannot meet these minimums you will have to pay a surcharge.

Similarly you have to factor trims (zippers, buttons, swing tags etc)

and the cost of dying fabric whatever colour you want it. All of this is on top of make price which might also require you to produce a certain number of styles ( i don't know the situation with your factory so this is just from my perspective)

So in saying all this i think you will need more than an online store if you want to get your prices to such a low price point.

Also,have you dealt with production overseas? If you are working from Vietnam do you have someone who can be in charge of QC? (Can the factory speak english or can u speak viet?)

Are you making samples here then sending to them for production or are they making samples there etc

the list goes on and on

My advice to you is to write a proper business plan if you haven't already.

Otherwise you are going to encounter a few problems especially if you have no experience in this area

Not trying to be neg, so I hope this helps

we totally agree with the points you raised and its been a big topic we've been discussing recently.

with the pricepoint, i know it kind of seems really fantastical with what we are trying to accomplish. ill just say that we have some strategies/ideas to keep the pricepoint at where we want it while still maintaining the quality of fit, materials and hardware. price is really one of the most important aspects of this concept to us, so we are really striving to build it around fixed points.

as for the second point, i think this is one of the most critical flaws in the concept. we have semi-contacts with some people in vietnam, but none of the CORE team are actually based there on a regular basis (we all live in melbourne). so even if we build the production channels and outlets, theres no one there (atleast insofar that we can trust with such an important aspect as quality) to maintain and oversee control. we really are struggling with this right now, so we'll see where we head... again this is just preliminary.

^ I agree.

There needs to be a sustainable competitive advantage that your label has over its competitors in order for it to last, not just peak during this 'window period'. And as stated above, a wide color palette isn't one of them considering many competitors have economies of scale at their side.

From the way I see it, you're looking at doing quality items for a reasonable price with good cuts and a variety of colors. Yes there's definitely a gap in this market for Australia at the moment...but once it gets filled up by bigger companies (Uniqlo/Muji) what's going to happen? Not only will they have more range of items, but they will also have better 'value for money'. You just can't beat mass production in terms of pricing. So you're going to have to offer something else besides 'good price range' for a quality product that you will have less profit margin on.

I'm by no means an expert in any of this, just voicing concerns. But I say go for it after it's well planned out and you have something to bring to the table that nobody else has. Had to type this response in haste, sorry for the jibberish.

this is a really good point. and again, we agree. once the uniqlos, h&ms, zaras etc etc all come, it is going to be extremely difficult to maintain that critical advantage.

this is what we think: if we get in first with this concept, and (crossed fingers) it does well, we really see the inevitable natural evolution of the idea is that it will become its own house-designed readytowear line. and while i know its ambitious, and there is SO much effort involved in designing and creating new ranges season to season, my friend and i really think we could pull it off if we gave it our full attention to the max.

so what im really trying to say is, yes, we are focused in the beginning on pushing basic, trans-seasonal pieces in natural colours. and this core-product range can remain instore season to season, year to year (of course, since this is what the fundamental idea is based on). eventually however, in the same way that cheap monday expanded their line from just jeans to tops outerwear etc, and how APC always has the core staple items each season (their raw jeans, oxford shirts etc), this concept has so much potential to grow into its own shoes. and therein lies what differentiates us. once uniqlo, muji etc., come in direct competition with our core basics, the label has evolved to something that is seperate from mass-produced garments -- something slightly unique in style, slightly more higher end, and a lot more limited in availability.

thanks everyone for the input. some of the points you guys have made we really just glossed over and are really critical actually so this all really helped. any more replies really appreciated, and if any of you guys know the straight up details behind the scenes of starting your own label or getting consignment in stores or whatever else, anything would be REALLY appreciated. again we are just trying to gather as much information as possible so would love to hear more.

[Ivans On High]

The problem with starting your own physical store as opposed to a 'label' is definitely the costs. Not only is there a huge amount required to fit out the store, there are also lots of on going costs such as rent, insurance, bank fees etc. If you want to keep the costs down on your items this is probably where you will have to tighten the screws the most - overheads.

You mentioned Cheap Monday, and that is a pretty solid model of what you can achieve if you do it right. They picked a gap and exploited it, and now they produce a full line as well as a deluxe line, and are stocked all over the place. They chose one type of garment and did it really well, and really cheaply. This is probably what you should aim for imo.

As for having your items stocked in existing stores, the terms really depend on both you and the retailer. Some brands command the respect to set their own terms, while a young label might have to be more lenient. There are two basic principles: you can sell to a store at wholesale prices and let them determine the retail price and make whatever profit (you can also nominate a RRP); or you can sell on consignment, where the store will display your stock without having paid for it and take a cut if and when the items sell. Obviously there are more complicated terms and things to consider, but I'll leave that for you to read up on. Consignment is a good way to get your stuff in stores, and as there is little to no risk for the retailer, many are willing to trade on those terms. The downside of course is that you have to produce the garments with no guarantee of making any money - but as I see it, the only way you are going to keep costs down is to produce hundreds of units for each style, so this probably isn't a major issue for you.

Just be prepared to live lean for the first few years - be conservative in your projections.

As for extra reading, I recommend The Fashion Designer Survival Guide by Mary Gehlhar. And feel free to send me a PM.

[wept]

sorry to interupt.

where is a good tailor in melbourne? I need to get the waist of a pair of 3/4 length DBSS jeans taken in about 1-2 inches. can it be done and where?

[Jem777]

sorry to interupt.

where is a good tailor in melbourne? I need to get the waist of a pair of 3/4 length DBSS jeans taken in about 1-2 inches. can it be done and where?

I had crotch reinforcements done to my DH at the emirates house in the CBD. Shop called Dr Do All I think. A lil pricey though.

[DJI]

sorry to interupt.

where is a good tailor in melbourne? I need to get the waist of a pair of 3/4 length DBSS jeans taken in about 1-2 inches. can it be done and where?

M&E Alterations in Nauru House man, just had the same sort of job done there on a pair of _7 waxed jeans.

what's been happening guys? been a while since I've posted here, been busy or away a fair bit of late. finally had a chance to check out some of the local stores, really happy with the way the Melbourne retail scene has been progressing over the last few months. it's certainly nice having labels that were up until fairly recently completely unavailable in Australia (eg. VA, IS, devoa, _7, BBS) been stocked at well established stores like Cose Ipanema and Harrold's, alongside the veterans of more avant-garde fashion like Assin and EM (speaking of which, much new stuff at EM atm?). anything else new and notable in our fair city?

also any word on the 'qlo store opening here? was probably the store I spent the most time at over in SG other than Kinokuniya haha.

[Raw Selvedge]

Does having the waist of jeans (or pants with jean back pockets) taken in kinda change the overall look and shape since the back pockets would get pushed closer together?

[DJI]

slightly I guess but you only alter because you have to dude, a good tailor will take in the seat appropriately too to give the desired look.

[fenrost]

hope all is well with you d and everyone else.

a couple of folks here have migrated to a more discreet channel

good to know harrolds picked up _7 and BBS. they got interesting buy and really topnotch customer service, albeit, i can't help to feel there's some sort of an identity crisis with the carried labels (same with cose ipanema) under one roof - balmain, tom ford and julius? all great stuff nevertheless.

chiodo and l.e.f.t 's merchandise wise, really dissappointing.

assin will be stocking damir doma mainline and haider ackerman for mens

as for EM, we will see ph ss11 in almost full spectrum.

incoming ccp - the first delivery will be heavy duty as we enter autumn-winter.

[DJI]

good to see you're still checking out this thread even if you aren't as active Rob, hope to see you and Chim posting on here at least occasionally.

hmm, I don't see it as an identity crisis as such. Harrold's is marketing itself as a high end men's department store so the variety of designers makes sense, and Cose Ipanema has been around for 30+ years so it wouldn't make sense for them to alienate their original customer base. anyway it's good to see these well established stores taking a risk by stocking some of the edgier designers, certainly brings some much needed variety to the local retail scene.

thanks for the rundown on EM, will try to visit the store before I jet off again. will also try to pop by Assin, CI and Harrold's again too as I was in something of a rush when I last dropped by (didn't stop me from copping the derbies I'm wearing right now though ).

[melvin7]

I'll be in Melbourne from this Sunday-Wednesday... hope we get to meet some of you guys while we're there!

[MoreFire]

Would somebody be so kind and help me out with some online shops stocking Claude Maus besides F-T and LVR?

I quite like their stuff and have a old hoody I really love, both quality-wise and fit-wise.

[bboowwyy]

little flirt & tomorrow's laundry are 2 that i know of.

[wept]

good as gold is another stockists of Claude Maus. Located in NZ. They dont recieve the stock super fast but you can find some old stuff there sometimes that other stockists have sold out of.

[MoreFire]

Thanks guys!

[fenrost]

yeah, D, irregardless, good to know these elusive labels can be accessed locally..

P, perhaps shoot them (claude maus themselves) a direct e-mail..? They will respond, and might even ship overseas...?

otherwise, if there is any picture of the particular item you're looking for, i can always drop by their store and query..

[lotek01]

Congrats on your win melvin7!

[MoreFire]

Thanks for the kind offer, fenrost!

I was just looking to have a brief view at their collection, nothing I am particulary interested in

Going to Berlin next week, thrilled to finally handle CCP in person.

And, of course congrats melvin / klue!!

[fenrost]

you're welcome, it's convenient anyway as i always passby their store.

[seven.homme]

@penis

you might want to check incu's other label WEATHERED. they got this basic shirt thing going on, you know, checkered, gingham, chambray those basic stuff you would see other brands doing. and they sell it for $99. The only stores selling them are incu itself and david jones if im not mistaken, because one of the owner itself told me that they're not going to sell Weathered outside the country.

The quality is getting better all the time especially this season. With that price, I definitely wouldnt mind to buy each of the style they offered. and it shocked my that they didnt increase the price.

I think they share the same factory as vanishing elephant, maybe thats why they can keep the cost low, imo.

With incu, they dont do consignment, they stocked my gf's jewellery line and they just bought her stuff wholesale price.