Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Sansome1877]

Pretty much any home improvement store. At my local home depot it's in the same aisle as the paint thinners/strippers. Goo B Gone and the several products like it are normally just a rebranded version of naptha that are more expensive because it's marketed for a specific use. Save yourself a few bucks and just get plain old naptha which can be purchased cheap in similar packaging to your mineral spirits in the photo below. A common application of it is to clean something old that you want to repaint since oils prevent adhesion for most paints.

...also for anyone who has ever tried to clean crayon up(in other words, you have kids), Naptha is your tool - just be careful using it on things like latex wall paints as sometimes it takes a little bit of that with it too....but it works like a charm cleaning it off of furniture, floors, etc.

That's a big help, the crayon information is going to work well ( I have a 5 year old) Thank you again, for the info.

[SLAB]

lol, good tip indeed as i have two critters running around myself.

conversation is really interesting, wish i had something clever to add other than I saw rnrswitch and Mike in the latest Lightning magazine edition (at Rising Sun party)

[Sansome1877]

lol, good tip indeed as i have two critters running around myself.

conversation is really interesting, wish i had something clever to add other than I saw rnrswitch and Mike in the latest Lightning magazine edition (at Rising Sun party)

Slab,

Wondering where you saw the lightning mag? ( I bet I looked like a shlub )

[Sansome1877]

If any one wants a book signed, I will be at Brit Eaton's booth all day tomorrow. I have about 45 books left over from the book party, I will have them for sale tomorrow. I'll put up that new levi piece that I talked about yesterday.

[not too tight]

I saw a picture of it in the what are your jeans doing today? thread a few days back.

i believe that is you Sansome1877 in the part that the light is hitting.

Being jealous:

[rnrswitch]

Nah, that ain't mike. The cat that is in the shiny portion was flown to Rising Sun to buy "one of everything." He told me that his employer flew him down there, because the employer was afraid of flying. He bought a pair of the AB Elfelts, Neustadter, and the boots that Julian was hocking for $800.

Any expensive night for that dude's employer. He was wearing a pair of nicely worn in Indys though. Not that I was checking out what everybody was wearing.

[rnrswitch]

But somebody should post the entire spread of the Rising Sun party. I wonder if they picked up some of the shots of the well worn blacksmiths that were there.

[Sansome1877]

Jacob Davis might have called in sick the day some one set the watch pocket on this piece ( it's not straight )

This duck piece has blank rivets with sewn Levi Strauss and Co S.F Cal suspender buttons. I have seen 6 blank riveted Levi pieces before, all of the buttons on those pieces were damaged beyond recognition. I don't know the story of the skewed watch pocket (was this a short lived design feature?) It could be a mistake.

[rnrswitch]

Those rivets/buttons almost look like they were woven in with the canvas.

Also, is that brown line below the watch pocket the selvage line?

[Sansome1877]

Those rivets/buttons almost look like they were woven in with the canvas.

Also, is that brown line below the watch pocket the selvage line?

Yea the brown line is the selvage line, the rivets seem to blend with the fabric through the corrosion process. We didn't want to wash this one up too much....so it still has dirt on it.

[rnrswitch]

Any idea how the warp and weft yarns differ from denim to duck, beside the twill versus plain weave? Sometimes it seams like duck is a bit more brittle/fragile.

[Sansome1877]

Any idea how the warp and weft yarns differ from denim to duck, beside the twill versus plain weave? Sometimes it seams like duck is a bit more brittle/fragile.

That would be a good question for Ralph Tharpe or Pacioli? Maybe Paul T?

[rnrswitch]

Nah paul t doesn't know anything about cotton duck. He has proved that time and again.

That would be a good question for Ralph Tharpe or Pacioli? Maybe Paul T?

[Sansome1877]

I looked it up and duck has a 2x2 filling rib weave pattern, and was made by passing the weft thread over 2 warp threads and under 2. the next row would be repeated and then the next 2 rows would be the inverse. this would give a square pattern to the duck fabric with no diagonal twill lines.

it seems to me that duck fabric is a little less 'flexible' than denim.

a side note, i collaborate with ralph tharpe from time to time and he said that one of my duck waist overalls were actually, by definition, made out of sail cloth rather than duck.......

[Sansome1877]

I thought this would interest a few people, in 1873 Levi Strauss filed for a copyright for their leather label. February 10 1874 they were granted the copyright. Here is what our search turned out ,at the library of congress.

[rodeo bill]

my copy finally came through from amazon us. I knew I would be more impressed than I expected, and I am- it all looks fantastic! Had a quick dip last night, but as everyone says, this is going to take while. cheers boys:)

[rnrswitch]

I looked it up and duck has a 2x2 filling rib weave pattern, and was made by passing the weft thread over 2 warp threads and under 2. the next row would be repeated and then the next 2 rows would be the inverse. this would give a square pattern to the duck fabric with no diagonal twill lines.

it seems to me that duck fabric is a little less 'flexible' than denim.

a side note, i collaborate with ralph tharpe from time to time and he said that one of my duck waist overalls were actually, by definition, made out of sail cloth rather than duck.......

I was wondering more about the yarns themselves. Does the perceived brittleness of duck come from its weave pattern (the 2x2) or the actual processing of the yarns prior to being woven. Probably a combination of the two, but I wonder if there is a difference between the yarn size/flexibility, etc. between denim yarns and duck yarns.

[Sansome1877]

Nice photo Rodeo, I will email Ralph switch, and should have a good answer for you soon.

[Sansome1877]

A few months ago we found what we thought to be a 1930's crapper?

[Ness]

Duck was a term used for lighter canvas fabric, so that people knew that it is for clothing and Canvas would be used for heavy fabric so that people knew that is for upholstery etc.

[Joseph Hill]

^^There's GOLD in them thar hills!

[Sansome1877]

^^There's GOLD in them thar hills!

I wish it was gold Joseph, silver in them thar hills.

[mtchfrnk]

Denim belt that we found. Mike assumed it was a belt, I would tend to agree. It looks like the perfect length to be able to tie around the waist. It is basically two long slices of denim from the leg of a pair of jeans tied together

That's a fisherman's knot. In the olden days, it was used to repair broken fishing line because it binds well and is easy to tie with wet/cold hands. It's a super easy knot--just two overhand knots, each tied around the standing end of the other line. The two knots pull together and bind up into a single knot. It's less useful now because it doesn't work well with plastic monofilament lines.

These days you see it more often on friendship bracelets.

The slideability (so to speak) of the two knots lets you adjust the size of the bracelet to fit your wrist. I bet it worked pret' much the same with that miner's belt. If it were me I'd've used two blake's hitches instead of overhand knots. But that's just me.

[Sansome1877]

I will work on those knots MtchFrnk. This is the only 1870's rope I have and I will post pictures of the knots you mentioned in a few days.

[Joseph Hill]

I wish it was gold Joseph, silver in them thar hills.

I thought maybe you were leaving a few bars behind.

[Sansome1877]

I thought maybe you were leaving a few bars behind.

Nah, no bars left behind.

[roy6]

I thought maybe you were leaving a few bars behind.

Wait...is that a triple pun? Not too shabby, Hill.

[Sansome1877]

Guys wearing rope belts, this picture was taken in Canada late 1890's. Switch did you get my email the other day?

[Paul T]

Mike,

I'm finally free of the clutches of libel lawyers (you're lucky you didn't have that) and have been looking through your book.

It's terrific, a real achievement. along with Jenny Balfour-Paul's wonderful work on Indigo, this is a book I really wish I'd written! It's an excellent book, full of new insights into one of Americia's key cultural exports, and my hearty congratulaitons and thanks go out to you.

[Sansome1877]

Mike,

I'm finally free of the clutches of libel lawyers (you're lucky you didn't have that) and have been looking through your book.

It's terrific, a real achievement. along with Jenny Balfour-Paul's wonderful work on Indigo, this is a book I really wish I'd written! It's an excellent book, full of new insights into one of Americia's key cultural exports, and my hearty congratulaitons and thanks go out to you.

Thanks a lot for the kind words Paul, we were thinking about another book in the coming years (the clothing of Welsh tin miners) Out in the west, it's my belief that the Welsh miners did most of the excellent dry masonry work . I'll take some pictures of this fine rock work, next time I'm out in the field. Thanks again Paul and I'm looking forward to reading your Bowie book, congratulations on getting past the libel lawyers (sounds like a drag)