LVC Fall 2007 US Collection

[jubei]

I don't think Levi's (or any old time jeans, for that matter) ever used "natural" indigo...

The combination of natural indigo and jeans is a purely modern invention. Dying garments with natural indigo is more of an artisanal thing...

[Paul T]

Dex is right. Levi's moved to synthetic indigo around 1920, so there would be no reason to use natural indigo on a replica of 1940s jeans.

All Levi's pre1920s jeans used natural indgo denim, of course (look at the natural v synthetic indigo thread for more info). Some of LVCs 1880s reissues have used natural indigo denim from Kurabo - and I would guess this season's 1873s (or 1863s!) feature it, or at least they should do, for $501...

[electrum]

Thanks to all for the insight into the indigo thing. I thought natural indigo for the 47s sounded too good to be true. What lead to my question though was what I found at this web site: http://www.manufactum.com/product/1403023/group/187708/dmc_mb3_productlist_pi1.45993.page/1/dmc_mb3_productlist_pi1.45993.num/8/Product_Details.2866.0.html

In their promo, they claim the 47s they offer are made using, " Pure indigo dye without chemical additives..." If this is in fact, I'd spend the extra 100 bucks for a pair. Any thoughts about this company making false claims or could it be that Levi lvc EU products are different from what Levi Strauss offers here in the states?

[7887]

In their promo, they claim the 47s they offer are made using, " Pure indigo dye without chemical additives..." If this is in fact, I'd spend the extra 100 bucks for a pair. Any thoughts about this company making false claims or could it be that Levi lvc EU products are different from what Levi Strauss offers here in the states?

When most companies claim they use "pure indigo" they mean 100% artificial indigo, some companies try to do a extra coating of sulfur to make jeans look darker than they really are.

[Paul T]

I like Manufactum but they seem as prone to hyperbole as the most down-market company. The old narrow looms that had not been used for 40 years ago = 16 years ago. Denim weavers that Levis' worked with 100 years ago = 80 years ago.

And there seems to be just as big a markup on the price!

The pure indigo dye claim seems about as spurious. Yes, Cone tried to get back as close as possible to the denim they used 60 years ago, but using 'pure indigo dye' doesn't mean a lot, and certainly doesn't imply natural indigo . Sulphur is most commonly used for a washdown of the fibres, which makes them less porous, so less indigo is needed for a good depth of color (more recently, sulpuhur has been used to add a color cast); I'm not certain, but it wouldn't surprise me if Cone use/d sulphur for the 501 denim.

[electrum]

Natural indigo not withstanding, I went ahead and placed an order for '47 501 from the official Levi's online store. One odd thing to note, when I placed my order, the Levi web site listed the country of origin for the '47 as United States. However, when I returned to the same site to track my order, the country of origin for the same product is now listed again as imported! Levi's needs to get their act together and stop jerking their customers around with their double talk -- that kind of crap is bad for buiness. I mean it's like either imported of made in the USA -- one or the other. It's going to be interesting to see what I end up getting. Anyway, FWIW, I'll post my opinion once I get 'em.

I just checked the Levi's store and they've got the '47 counrty of origin listed as United States again! Maybe their web master is some burn out pothead who likes switching the country of origin on their products around every other day. Take a look at the Hacienda Vault, it's listed today as an import when a couple of days ago it was listed as United States! Jeeeez!

[Shorty Long]

I've noticed that before...very strange. It seems to switch with each visit for every LVC item. I have no idea why it would do that, but I'm guessing it's a glitch of some sort.

Natural indigo not withstanding, I went ahead and placed an order for '47 501 from the official Levi's online store. One odd thing to note, when I placed my order, the Levi web site listed the country of origin for the '47 as United States. However, when I returned to the same site to track my order, the country of origin for the same product is now listed again as imported! Levi's needs to get their act together and stop jerking their customers around with their double talk -- that kind of crap is bad for buiness. I mean it's like either imported of made in the USA -- one or the other. It's going to be interesting to see what I end up getting. Anyway, FWIW, I'll post my opinion once I get 'em.

I just checked the Levi's store and they've got the '47 counrty of origin listed as United States again! Maybe their web master is some burn out pothead who likes switching the country of origin on their products around every other day. Take a look at the Hacienda Vault, it's listed today as an import when a couple of days ago it was listed as United States! Jeeeez!

[airfrogusmc]

Allot of LVC raw are shipped to europe and asia because it doesn't sell in the US. The US market tends to like those pre aged LVCs. Don't be surprised at all by it.

[electrum]

I got my '47's over the weekend. A great pair of jeans except I got stuck w'another pair of rejects. They do not fit -- very tight in the thighs and snug in the waist. Coin pocket off center with unstitched reinforcement thread hanging loose above right rivet. The left leg outer seam off center by about 3 inches. Also, the pair I received are Fall 2006 lvc! BTW, what does the "R" on the back of front center button mean, reject? The 1873's I got had "R" stamped on button and they were POS too.

Pics:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb172/kool40/James%20Jeans/DSCN0363.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb172/kool40/James%20Jeans/DSCN0359.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb172/kool40/James%20Jeans/DSCN0356.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb172/kool40/James%20Jeans/DSCN0352.jpg

[Crackerhead]

I got my '47's over the weekend. A great pair of jeans except I got stuck w'another pair of rejects. They do not fit -- very tight in the thighs and snug in the waist. Coin pocket off center with unstitched reinforcement thread hanging loose above right rivet. The left leg outer seam off center by about 3 inches. Also, the pair I received are Fall 2006 lvc! BTW, what does the "R" on the back of front center button mean, reject? The 1873's I got had "R" stamped on button and they were POS too.

Yeah, the coin pocket does appear to be a quarter of a centimeter off. Otherwise, those don't look like defects to me. That extra thread clearly isn't a functional flaw. And the seam skew really isn't a big deal since they're going to twist that way anyway after washing and shrinking. My deadstock '47 501's have a bit of that skew to them, too.

Oh, and about the R stamp, I think that identifies the current factory those come out of. Any extra knowledge on that anyone?

[Paul T]

R is found on quite a few non-Levi's factory US-made jeans. Don't believe it means reject. You'll find a tag inside that gives you date of manufacture.

Not impressed by the two-horse patch, though, it looks a bit pale and anaemic. Is the two horse design stamped in (slightly lower) or simply printed on?

(More about button codes etc here:

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34010 )

[wywh]

I got my '47's over the weekend. A great pair of jeans except I got stuck w'another pair of rejects. They do not fit -- very tight in the thighs and snug in the waist. Coin pocket off center with unstitched reinforcement thread hanging loose above right rivet. The left leg outer seam off center by about 3 inches. Also, the pair I received are Fall 2006 lvc! BTW, what does the "R" on the back of front center button mean, reject? The 1873's I got had "R" stamped on button and they were POS too.

Not to worry electrum, my pre-wash '47 with #R also coming with the same fitting like yours but in my case it fit me just nice. My pair are Spring 2007 LVC. The heavy leg twist is common feature to all '47 repros since I believe it's intentionally. Mine also slightly off centered on the left leg but your leather patch looks so much better than mine as I comment in another thread:

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?p=702544#post702544

I'd not complaint if I got the same quality leather patch like yours. Other than some line discolouration on my pair, I think due to the way the previous owner store it, it's a great pair.

Regards,

[Shorty Long]

The lightness of the patch is due (I think) to the type of leather used. I think the lighter, softer leather indicates that it's deerhide. I much prefer it over the other options I've seen on LVC jeans.

[electrum]

R is found on quite a few non-Levi's factory US-made jeans. Don't believe it means reject. You'll find a tag inside that gives you date of manufacture.

Not impressed by the two-horse patch, though, it looks a bit pale and anaemic. Is the two horse design stamped in (slightly lower) or simply printed on?

(More about button codes etc here:

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34010 )

PT,

Thanks for the button code info. So, the "R" indicates jeans made at a non-Levi manufacturing facility -- interesting. I had no idea Levi's would farm their top of the line lvc products out to independent manufacturing sources. I wonder if Levi Strauss still operates any of its own manufscturing facilities in the U.S.? Regardless of what factory puts the jeans together, the damn things should be put together right for $175! Anyway, your question about the leather patch, no the mule logo is screen print and not incuse however, the "501xx" and stated size are incuse. Hands on, the leather is of the finest quality. FYI, the numbers on back of care tag are as follows: 039307127189, 382F C WPL-423, 643M 0306 209526 and 701S 475019124.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Dex is right. Levi's moved to synthetic indigo around 1920, so there would be no reason to use natural indigo on a replica of 1940s jeans.

All Levi's pre1920s jeans used natural indgo denim, of course (look at the natural v synthetic indigo thread for more info). Some of LVCs 1880s reissues have used natural indigo denim from Kurabo - and I would guess this season's 1873s (or 1863s!) feature it, or at least they should do, for $501...

Why did they use natural indigo until the 1920s when synthetic indigo was invented in the late 19th century, 1889 or something like that?

Did they have to pay a high fee to get the rights to use it or what?

[jubei]

maybe the chemicals weren't available on an industrial scale until then?

[electrum]

Don't get me wrong Crackerhead, the jeans are very nice. Special attention to replicate the original is apparent in every detail from the luxurious ring spun denim to the heavy drill cloth pockets, yet they're put together like crap. The last pair of "cheap" Levi 501 STF jeans I purchased (from Dave's New York..only place that carries the 13.5oz to my knowledge) are tailored flawlessly weigh in at a hefty 13.5oz and are as tough as nails. I've been wearing them for over two months and they're almost as rigid as they were the day I got them. They're not self-edge or made in the U.S. but for $30 you can't go wrong. I demand at least the same level of craftsmanship and quality control for a $175-$501 pair of LVC.

[Paul T]

Why did they use natural indigo until the 1920s when synthetic indigo was invented in the late 19th century, 1889 or something like that?

Did they have to pay a high fee to get the rights to use it or what?

Synthetic indigo was launched commercially around 1897; it was expensive at first.

Why did it not hit America until the 1920s? Well, synthetic indigo was invented by the German company BASF, and there was the small matter of a world war going on until 1918...

Edit: electrum, have a look thru the LVC thread for more info. Levi's closed their own factories a few years ago as, sadly, have most of the big apparel makers. The LVC jeans were the last to be made by Levi's own factories, and are now made by outside contractors. Since then, quality have been more inconsistent, but in general I'd say the current jeans match up to earlier LVC. Although there have been reports here of some sub-par jeans, most of the US-made LVC is excellent. (I"m not so impressed by the washed jeans, many of which are made in Turkey.)

More info here (41 pages of it):

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=14314&page=41

and here...

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34010

[Crackerhead]

I just ordered a pair of the Deadstock 606's from this season. Feedback and pictures to come upon arrival!

[Guest ilikeskating]

I just ordered a pair of the Deadstock 606's from this season. Feedback and pictures to come upon arrival!

where did you buy them?

[wywh]

Hi Paul,

The LVC jeans were the last to be made by Levi's own factories, and are now made by outside contractors. Since then, quality have been more inconsistent, but in general I'd say the current jeans match up to earlier LVC. Although there have been reports here of some sub-par jeans, most of the US-made LVC is excellent. (I"m not so impressed by the washed jeans, many of which are made in Turkey.)

I hope you doesn't mean the jeans are made in Turkey and LVC put 'made in USA' in the inner tag and sell it worldwide.

Regards,

[airfrogusmc]

Hi Paul,

I hope you doesn't mean the jeans are made in Turkey and LVC put 'made in USA' in the inner tag and sell it worldwide.

Regards,

Allot of the pre aged stuff is out of turkey and is clearly marked as such. My 1905 209s are US made. Most of the raw stuff is US and made in a factory in Tenn (I think, thought I read that somewhere?) and the new US stuff that I've seen from late 06 on is very good.

[airfrogusmc]

Don't get me wrong Crackerhead, the jeans are very nice. Special attention to replicate the original is apparent in every detail from the luxurious ring spun denim to the heavy drill cloth pockets, yet they're put together like crap. The last pair of "cheap" Levi 501 STF jeans I purchased (from Dave's New York..only place that carries the 13.5oz to my knowledge) are tailored flawlessly weigh in at a hefty 13.5oz and are as tough as nails. I've been wearing them for over two months and they're almost as rigid as they were the day I got them. They're not self-edge or made in the U.S. but for $30 you can't go wrong. I demand at least the same level of craftsmanship and quality control for a $175-$501 pair of LVC.

Those are from spring 06 and I think Levis was having some trouble with QC. Some models were done well some weren't but the late 06 and all of the 07s US made LVCs that I've seen have all looked VERY NICE!

[Paul T]

Looks like the normal 501XX, STF to me. Pretty good jeans, but for the work you're going to put into them, might be worth looking at something better/pricier.

[batorizer]

search for stf. there should be a fair amout of info about these.

same jeans here:

www.levisstore.com

[electrum]

Not LVC, but I didn't think I should start a new thread...

Urban Outfitters has:

"Rigid", "501 Jeans in raw indigo Shrink-to-Fit denim"

$49

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp?itemdescription=true&itemCount=-1&id=13924642&parentid=M_APP_JEANS&sortProperties=+product.marketingPriority,-product.startDate&navCount=17&navAction=poppush&color=91

What's the deal with these? I did some searching around and couldn't find any solid info. I believe these are new to Urban Outfitter's website. From the pictures they do indeed look like fairly nice raw denim and only $49...

Does anyone have any info on these? What kind of weight is the denim?

Picture:

http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/UrbanOutfitters/13924642_91_f?$detailmain$

The Levi's 501stf are my favorite all around jean. You can find the made in USA version at Levi's and Penny's but they're going to run you $46+ and aren't the best quality as far as weight, consistancy and durability. I found Dave's New York carries the best quality Levi rigid 501stf and rigid 505 that money can buy for $30. They're import but the quality is tops. The rigid 501stf are 13.5oz and the rigid 505's weigh a whopping 14.75 and are sanforized for minimal shrinkage. Both are extremely stiff denim like days of old, tailored for the perfect fit and are without any defects. If you're tired of buying pricey Mall jeans without meat on their bones that begin to fall apart after 12-18 months, check out Levi's from Dave's -- he sells the real thing at a reasonable price.

http://www.davesnewyork.com/index.cfm/p/59/a/product.show

Best of luck.

[Crackerhead]

I just got my 1967 606's from the latest collection TODAY. I am in love with them already. Flat felled seams inside and out. The bright topstitching runs down the entire length of the outside of the leg. I didn't know these were a shrink-to-fit denim, though, and bought them very fitted. Guess I'm dry cleaning! Pics and more feedback to come.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Do you mean the 1968 606 or am I out of the loop? Would love pics, I haven't seen those in Sweden.

[Shorty Long]

Are you sure they're STF???? They shouldn't be.

I just got my 1967 606's from the latest collection TODAY. I am in love with them already. Flat felled seams inside and out. The bright topstitching runs down the entire length of the outside of the leg. I didn't know these were a shrink-to-fit denim, though, and bought them very fitted. Guess I'm dry cleaning! Pics and more feedback to come.

[Paul T]

The new ones are Sanforized, just like their predecessors, and just about all LVC zipper jeans.