zipangu treasures

[sneakeraddict]

Hi Zipangu,

Hope your store makes it through.

Sent you a message.

[alterion]

zipangu that truely sucks, i guess that sugarcane eternal ect are trying to protect those who are selling the same jeans form them for $100's more. But it is very dissapointing.

I assume that all orders already made will be okay though? ( I really really wants those sugarcanes ).

[zipangu-treasures]

I ordered a Sugar Cane belt and paid for it on Saturday. What will happen with my order?? I really hope my order won't be cancelled

I will ship all items which I already received orders until today will be shipped to the all buyers under my responsibility. Please don't worry.

[alterion]

very good news- welcome to sufu btw

[Jowshoo]

I was fortunate to get a pair of one wash Sugar Cane 47s from Zipangu Treasures a few weeks ago. Great service and quick delievery. Planned to get some more soon. Hope things work out for you soon and normal service is resumed. Good luck!

[beatle]

Yeah ...really glad I got the Eternals and the Sugar Cane belt...

Still ready to suck Levi's dry...who's with me ??

[Guest El Salvador]

I will ship all items which I already received orders until today will be shipped to the all buyers under my responsibility. Please don't worry.

Thanks that is great! I wish you all the best and I really hope I will be able to order some other stuff from you in the near future. Good luck!

[iamstarwars]

Still ready to suck Levi's dry...who's with me ??

I am. This situation is not acceptable.

[gimmegimme]

Yeah ...really glad I got the Eternals and the Sugar Cane belt...

Still ready to suck Levi's dry...who's with me ??

I'm with everyone else in that I want all my repros to have the tabs & arcuates...but Levi's IS the one that came up with the idea of putting those 2 things there for branding purposes and had it protected (my history isn't great, so there may have been a predecesor, but Levi's still has the legal protection).

I'm curious if people can relate this situation with, for example, an unauthorized cover of a noteable song? Say a new hip band re-did a classic Beatles song without permission, who would you side with? The new hip band tweaked it to make it fresh, but it still doesn't belong to them. Just like SDA and SC tweaked the types of denim used, etc. to make their jeans new and fresh.

I think someone else mentioned that they could live without the red tab, but the stitching is a must...and I agree that I really like the stitching on the back pockets, but there are an infinite number of designs that can be put back there...so I hope that instead of just leaving them blank, the repro companies will come up with their own classic design. Until then maybe someone can create a bootleg company that can sew new tabls and arcuates back on. If we all keep it hush-hush, maybe Levi's won't find out.

[SirCharles1985]

Damn this sucks, I was going to order a pair of Sugar Cane 1947's and Eternal 811's this weekend.

[edmond]

im with you beatle.. lets kick levi's ass!

[zipangu-treasures]

here is a good post regarding the levis lawsuit from an american distributor:

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=285611&postcount=1

you may also read that full thread but it is very long. will your eternal products have the tab attached or not?

Thanks for your info.

I have just new about the following fact according to the page you told me. Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-this was a court order, NOT ceast and desist.

-Levi's is winning this, there's no doubt about it

-This lawsuit has been many months in the works, maybe even before any of the aformentioned stores opened

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I don't guess why we can not find the official announcement on the web..... it says 'this was a court order'. Doesn't it mean 'public announcement' in the US? Ummmmm...

[peteyross]

I may be in the minority here, but I think Levis is in the right. They've been ripped off by Japanese firms for years and now they're cleaning up. They were straight up COPIED. Levis owned those designs and they were copied...right down to the acruates and red tab. They were the creators. Enough said.

I think it's fine for Japanese repro companies to continue to produce the same jeans without the acruates/red tabs. I don't think Levis can own a particular fit. We all love the acruates/red tabs but Levis invented those. If you want them, you should buy Levis. If you want the denim that SugarCane, SDA, etc produce, you should buy their stuff.

You can't have both.

If I created something and people loved it, and someone else stole my ideas, I would be pissed.

[theetruscan]

I'd imagine they contact the jeans companies about the jeans that they want to stock, usually through translator/Japanese-fluent staff. The company then sends the stock to the people if there is an agreement, and they sell them for however much they want according to a policy (no red tabs, arcuates, etc.)

I think Sugarcane/TOYO said something about not lowering retail prices somewhere.

I imagine that the importers pay a hefty import duty, as well as incorporating shipping into their costs. Also, brick and mortars always have more overhead than webstores.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Levis is in the right. They've been ripped off by Japanese firms for years and now they're cleaning up. They were straight up COPIED. Levis owned those designs and they were copied...right down to the acruates and red tab. They were the creators. Enough said.

Levi's has maintained a trademark far broader than anything that could have been granted in the last 50-60 years. They possibly extend beyond even the coverage of that trademark when filing these lawsuits. However, it is correct that they were infringed upon. There's also an entire fucking 3 million page thread about it.

Shiiit... I've always imagined that I'm wearing kind of 'independent' jeans, outside of corporate policies. I guess this is one more thing I'm witnessing to transform from ug to mainstream. But why do we have to pay more? Denim-Discrimination... We need Martin Luther Denim!

I'd imagine these companies are stepping in to protect their "big" accounts like Self Edge and Blue in Green. I still think of those as independent.

[alterion]

There are actually 2 separate issues here which zipangu is being attacked by atm and we should clearly separate the 2

1) Levi's protecing thier trademarks- okay so thats a bit rubbish- but at the same time its fair, they were levis original branding and while some of the trademarks are broad ( like not being allowed ANY pockect tab) I thik that this could actually be a good thing for the denim industry helping to modernise these companies and increase innovation. Look at the new deisgn on skulls for exaple IMHO thats actually better and more unique than just a "red tab". Or the wonderfull acrtuates on sugarcane hawaili and okinawa for proof that you can make sick product without thius affecting you.

2) Japaense denim companies trying to price fix and make us westerners who have proven we'll pay over the board for some brands pay vastly more than in japan - now THIS SUCKS and is a terrible buisness plan by the japanese comapnies. Personally i know think my next pair of jeans will be skulls mainly because of the superb customer service and desire to develop a global market they have chosen.

I'd like to see Kiya with his influnce at sugarcane support zipangu (i think we would all agree that its perfectly possible for somewhere like selfedge to co-exist with somewhere like zipangu) - but i doubt that will happen for obvious reasons.

[beatle]

The pocket stitches were the brainchild of the man who virtually invented the Levi's jean, a Russian immigrant by the name of Jacob Davis. Working as a tailor in Reno, Nevada, Davis hit upon the crucial concept of the riveted seam--a dramatic advance in work clothes technology that doubled the durability of the product. In 1870, Davis approached the wholesale company that sold him his denim, offering to sell the west coast rights to his riveted jeans in exchange for the cost of securing a patent--a matter, in those day, of $68. The wholesaler was Levi Strauss, and the rest is history. Davis joined the company in 1873, presiding over the final design of the product. His two primary contributions were the orange thread used in all stitching (to match the copper rivets) and the inimitable curved stitches (known as "arcuate" in the trade) on the back pockets. Originally, the pocket flourishes had a practical function: early Levis featured cotton-lined back pockets, and the stitches were intended to keep the lining from buckling. Although the lining was soon dropped, the stitches lived on, so distinctive a part of the Levis look that the company was able to register them as a trademark in 1942. Their survival was threatened only once, during the material shortage of World War II. As their contribution to the national emergency, Levi Strauss decided to stop wasting valuable thread on idle aesthetics. For the duration, the design was not sewn, but carefully painted on every pair of Levi's jeans.

Allright - so they came up with it...Nontheless ...would'nt it be generous to leave the japanese brands be....Honestly ....there are'nt so many crazy denim freaks that order stuff from Japan...I don't think it's existential for Levi's...

[martylane]

2) Japaense denim companies trying to price fix and make us westerners who have proven we'll pay over the board for some brands pay vastly more than in japan - now THIS SUCKS and is a terrible buisness plan by the japanese comapnies. [...]

I'd like to see Kiya with his influnce at sugarcane support zipangu (i think we would all agree that its perfectly possible for somewhere like selfedge to co-exist with somewhere like zipangu) - but i doubt that will happen for obvious reasons.

I wonder to what degree production limits figure into this? I imagine SC can produce only so many pairs of high quality jeans. If we could all easily get Okinawas at half price, or '47s for US$120, there could potentially be little to no SC presence in shops inside or outside of Japan. The US alone is a huge market, and could suck SC dry. Better keep prices high, is what they're probably thinking.

What a screamin' deal Zipangu Treasures was offering, though. It was sweet while it lasted! (It wouldn't surprise me if Kiya complained about Zipangu Treasures when the SC crew was visiting Self Edge.)

Oh, hey BTW, my first Post! I think I've read almost everything you regular Super Denim contributors have written. Thanks for all the tips!

[skalogre]

Well, hope it turns out well for you and that you can stay in business! The service provided was great for things that are hard to find and I am VERY happy with my SDA...

I never liked the cut of the Sugarcanes so I am not really bothered by their absence, frankly.

[deadpan]

Hi there!!

Can I join?

I'm seeing a supertrash slamdown coming. Someone from Levi's has to sign up...and in the sufu corner....zipangu-treasures:D

[twistedtrees]

I wonder to what degree production limits figure into this? I imagine SC can produce only so many pairs of high quality jeans. If we could all easily get Okinawas at half price, or '47s for US$120, there could potentially be little to no SC presence in shops inside or outside of Japan. The US alone is a huge market, and could suck SC dry. Better keep prices high, is what they're probably thinking.

What a screamin' deal Zipangu Treasures was offering, though. It was sweet while it lasted! (It wouldn't surprise me if Kiya complained about Zipangu Treasures when the SC crew was visiting Self Edge.)

Oh, hey BTW, my first Post! I think I've read almost everything you regular Super Denim contributors have written. Thanks for all the tips!

There is something to be said about major retailers coming together to get a company to stop selling to another retailer who charges far less---it's exactly what happened when Best Buy was selling CD's for less than $10 in the 90's. Disc Jockey/fye/Tower Records/etc. went to Sony & Geffen & whoever and said they would stop selling their CD's if they didn't make Best Buy charge more.

However, I don't thing SE or BiG are that big of retailers. And more specifically, I don't think their main customers are finding obscure Japanese eBay stores to buy their jeans. Kiya himself said that his average customer has never heard of SuFu or anything and isn't into the whole denimhead thing. So while this one store may stop a sale or two at SE or BiG, they probably aren't too worried about them. Plus, if you look at the commradere between the stores like Context, Cultizm, Denim Bar, Self Edge, BiG, you can see that they aren't out to destroy these other stores, they seem to be more stoked on the idea of other people into denim.

I'm just saying we shouldn't start blaming anybody but the manufacturers here, but then again, they aren't in America where capitalism is the rule, for good or bad.

[gimmegimme]

I'm seeing a supertrash slamdown coming. Someone from Levi's has to sign up...and in the sufu corner....zipangu-treasures:D

I'm sure Levi's is already on here....I wonder who it is though?

[40ozprophet]

yeah, i was about to say, i really wouldnt be suprised at all if a Levis rep or something was already on here.

[bonanz]

This has everything to do with american retailers calling out zipangu for undercutting and creating a website specifically designed to sell directly to america (among other places). The levis getting involved is a by-product of that....remember the denim junkie group buy? who sells in the US sells SDA and why was that the first taken off? and someone mentioned Kiya supporting zipangu? why in the hell would he support it when the sell a lot of the same product he does but don't have to mark up as a legit american retailer has to for importing?

Kiya has already mentioned in other threads how difficult it can be to get these companies to even agree to be retailed in the US, why would he support something that circumvents that whole process and makes it easier for the kids who bother US stores with questions because they don't want to research themselves and can't figure out how to order from rakuten cause they don't have a CC but go well out of their way to save 50 bucks or whatever rather than just understanding the value of not having to deal with that and ordering from a us retailer.(huge run-on:p)

Everybody likes a good deal, but it's business here, not about the "denim community" or whatever transplants from NT call it. The US retailers aren't that big and thats why it's important to them. The comradere mentioned above there exists because they all have to go through the same thing to carry these lines so then it comes down to customer service/advertising/word of mouth etc...

[ExileOnMainSt]

this is probably the only time in my life that I can say Canada has direct benefits over the United States

[azn8oi]

This has everything to do with american retailers calling out zipangu for undercutting and creating a website specifically designed to sell directly to america (among other places). The levis getting involved is a by-product of that....remember the denim junkie group buy? who sells in the US sells SDA and why was that the first taken off? and someone mentioned Kiya supporting zipangu? why in the hell would he support it when the sell a lot of the same product he does but don't have to mark up as a legit american retailer has to for importing?

Kiya has already mentioned in other threads how difficult it can be to get these companies to even agree to be retailed in the US, why would he support something that circumvents that whole process and makes it easier for the kids who bother US stores with questions because they don't want to research themselves and can't figure out how to order from rakuten cause they don't have a CC but go well out of their way to save 50 bucks or whatever rather than just understanding the value of not having to deal with that and ordering from a us retailer.(huge run-on:p)

Everybody likes a good deal, but it's business here, not about the "denim community" or whatever transplants from NT call it. The US retailers aren't that big and thats why it's important to them. The comradere mentioned above there exists because they all have to go through the same thing to carry these lines so then it comes down to customer service/advertising/word of mouth etc...

Well obviously you haven't shopped at UNION.LA

ugh

[indigo_junkie]

I wonder to what degree production limits figure into this? I imagine SC can produce only so many pairs of high quality jeans. If we could all easily get Okinawas at half price, or '47s for US$120, there could potentially be little to no SC presence in shops inside or outside of Japan. The US alone is a huge market, and could suck SC dry. Better keep prices high, is what they're probably thinking.

What a screamin' deal Zipangu Treasures was offering, though. It was sweet while it lasted! (It wouldn't surprise me if Kiya complained about Zipangu Treasures when the SC crew was visiting Self Edge.)

Oh, hey BTW, my first Post! I think I've read almost everything you regular Super Denim contributors have written. Thanks for all the tips!

I think Toyo corporation could handle it if the US market 'sucked SC dry.' they'd just find other ways to increase production capacity. As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, these companies are running a business. The only person who should be worried about getting sucked dry is Ande Whall, who makes his jeans one at a time out of his own home. If SC wanted to be an ultra exclusive niche jean maker, they'd charge $500 for every pair of jeans, only to the Japanese market. The premium price of the jeans sold in overseas outlets have more to do with protecting the small overseas business owner than it does with trying to keep production runs small. That being said, while SC has every right to protect its overseas account holders (just look at Alden shoes with their various account holders in the US), it's more SCs fault in creating such a price disparity in the first place. Someone mentioned that the majority of Selfedge's customers aren't SuFu members or denimheads, but as everyone here would know, your first pair of Japanese jeans won't be your last, and if the customer really gets into jeans and finds these threads, Selfedge is going to lose out on a lot of repeat custom, which some business need in order to survive.

If the rumor about SC forcing their japanese account holders to stop selling overseas is true, and if it becomes true for all Japanese jean companies, two things will probably happen. Firstly, there'd be a backlash from rakuten sellers that make the majority of their profit from overseas customers (which it seems to be everyone but BEARS). Secondly, the market of proxy buyers would explode (there are new ones popping up all the time). There might even be a backlash against retailers of SC and other Japanese brands in the US (there certainly ain't any here in Australia), even though the prices they set aren't largely by any choice of their own.

[zipangu-treasures]

It seems that a rumor is grown up on this thread though, they've never said they will not offer their products to the outside of Japan.

In my opinion, they will have the best chance to running their business to the world especially to the US just after this uproar was resolved. And they will have to set their price as the international standard item value. I feel just they are worrying about their current situation because of this uneasy lawsuit which has many possibility that will take away their originality including their freedom.

Almost of the latest modeled jeans produced by the Japanese jeans makers were produced under their concept including a big meaning to avoid many troubles related Levi's trademarks. As someone said they already don't need to copy anything from Levi and they are proceeding to the next step even if they felt the necessary in the beginning, I think.

There is nothing problem to sell their products on the Japanese market because it is NOT against to the Japanese law. And it is not a prohibit item under the international postal law and the Japanese customs law as well. Even though, they will not produce their products 'IF' it was regulated by the international law.

I deeply felt that I had to learn more about the Levi's trademark before starting this new business though, I didn't care anything about it because Those items should be produced by the each Japanese jeans makers under the Japanese law. I have never thought that I would be faced such the problem currently we have.

I can say that the difference of the law between US and Japan makes our business in trouble. I often hear that a company which is trying to offer their products into the US market usually say an example of a famous lawsuit a won customer sued MacDonald who continued eating MC burger whole one year then became a fatty. It is unbelievable court order for the Japanese people why the customer is able to win for the lawsuit. I think 99% of Japanese people feel that it was just happened under his/her responsibility. And neither we can't believe the amount paid by MC. I think like this incident should symbolizes US business world for the Japanese people.

In case of Japan, if a person copied a trademark from a famous item of a major company then if the person was sued by the major company. The court order will make the person pay for the amount of damage calculated on the basis of the total sales amount how many quantity the person sold the copied item. Sometimes 50%, sometimes 100% of the amount how much the person EARN will be requested to pay for the major company as the person's apology. So, the US law should be a kind of menace for the Japanese companies, I think.

I think that's why Japanese companies are negative to offer their products to the world especially to the US. They just don't wanna have a trouble because of their new business running to the world.

We had a discussion with SC last night. In result, I will have to remove their all items from my site. So, the SDA and SC items were already out. Currently, we are awaiting ET's official answer though, our situation is not too good, I feel.

As my own policy, I continued to offer many Japanese items at the true price since I opened my eBay store. Then now I am faced to this issue just after I opened my new store on the web. I'm listing an item page 'Japanese Shopping Assistance Service' on my ebay store since six months ago. I would like to make a similar item page on my new site in any case. I hope it will help you guys.

[Dick Danger]

I will support any business that I think is run by honorable people, and I do believe you are an honorable person. I hope you do well in your business.

[homme.homme]

I will support any business that I think is run by honorable people, and I do believe you are an honorable person. I hope you do well in your business.

x2

10characters

[hollaforadolla]

I can say that the difference of the law between US and Japan makes our business in trouble. I often hear that a company which is trying to offer their products into the US market usually say an example of a famous lawsuit a won customer sued MacDonald who continued eating MC burger whole one year then became a fatty. It is unbelievable court order for the Japanese people why the customer is able to win for the lawsuit. I think 99% of Japanese people feel that it was just happened under his/her responsibility. And neither we can't believe the amount paid by MC. I think like this incident should symbolizes US business world for the Japanese people.

In case of Japan, if a person copied a trademark from a famous item of a major company then if the person was sued by the major company. The court order will make the person pay for the amount of damage calculated on the basis of the total sales amount how many quantity the person sold the copied item. Sometimes 50%, sometimes 100% of the amount how much the person EARN will be requested to pay for the major company as the person's apology. So, the US law should be a kind of menace for the Japanese companies, I think.

American law is pretty crappy all around. I completely agree with you and feel sorry for the pressure you are receiving from American lawyers. Lawyers have really messed things up in this country (especially in medicine too where I am going into but thats a whole other story).

I wonder what would happen if you just did not listen to Levis and "stuck it to them" so to speak. Since you are based in Japan and only ship to the United States, Levis cant really do anything to you. Their law suits only extend to American courts and American based stores. You can still ship your jeans and they will still most likely get through customs.

ps: i dont endorse doing anything illegal, this is just pure speculation.