Baseball Talk

[hawkeye]

It appears Lowell will remain with the Red Sox after all.

3 years/37.5 million. That's a bargain for the Sox.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/11/lowell_stays.html

Ya, I think he woke up and realized that the Yankees were just trying to force the Sox to pay more for him and I really doubt he had any interest in playing 1st. It's a good move for Lowell who probably wont have the year he had this year, but if he keeps hitting them off the wall... Good move by the Sox too, showed everyone that they wouldn't get held hostage, even by the WS MVP. I think they had a pretty good idea that he would be back.

Well now it looks like Cereal shopping time.

[eastcoastrider27]

I think you and I are the only ones who care about this thread anymore.

[kiya]

I still care about this thread!

I think the TB team should just be called The Tampa Bay Devils.

That'd a step in the right direction for them..

[its swanny]

well...my wish didn't come true.

he's back. great. 10 years? arghhhhhhhhhhh. i better see 4 championships. and the home run title.

i sure hope posada and mariano have the three years left in them.

[eastcoastrider27]

I can't believe the Yankees resigned Rivera for that much (3yr/$45 m).

His best years are behind him. There's no way he's going to live up to that contract.

[kiya]

Fucking Rivera..

What the hell are they thinking, do they have THAT much money to throw around?

[hawkeye]

Kiya I think you need to schedule a "business trip" to Japan March 25-26th.

[hawkeye]

[eastcoastrider27]

Matt Holliday got robbed. He should have been the NL MVP.

[Bona Drag]

yeah, that's what i thought at first

but looking at the numbers like that, it makes more sense

total bases are basically the same

jroll's slugging is pretty high, while holliday's is not all that impressive for a colo. outfielder

holliday also had like 50% more strikeouts

and rollins is cash on d - truly a complete player

i think he's the right pick

[eastcoastrider27]

yeah, that's what i thought at first

but looking at the numbers like that, it makes more sense

total bases are basically the same

jroll's slugging is pretty high, while holliday's is not all that impressive for a colo. outfielder

holliday also had like 50% more strikeouts

and rollins is cash on d - truly a complete player

i think he's the right pick

Holliday's slugging was through the roof! He was 2nd in the NL and 5th in MLB in slugging. And Colorado is not the hitting ballpark it once was.

I'll give you that J Roll is a better defender, but I still think Holliday deserves the award.

Congrats to J Roll though. It's not like you can't make an argument for him winning it. He had a great season too.

[Bona Drag]

Holliday's slugging was through the roof! He was 2nd in the NL and 5th in MLB in slugging. And Colorado is not the hitting ballpark it once was.

oops, i totally misread that number

you're right

although i think there's still a coors advantage

but i was reading up on this and some baseball nerd wrote something about how, according to these two genius formulas he had come up with, holliday is actually the better defensive player

i hate fucking baseball nerds sometimes

anyway, more of a tossup than i thought

east coast bias maybe?

[eastcoastrider27]

oops, i totally misread that number

you're right

although i think there's still a coors advantage

but i was reading up on this and some baseball nerd wrote something about how, according to these two genius formulas he had come up with, holliday is actually the better defensive player

i hate fucking baseball nerds sometimes

anyway, def a tossup

east coast bias maybe?

Yeah, there is a statistical formula for determining a player's defensive abilities, but you just gotta see it on the field. J Roll is the better defender.

I think I heard somewhere that Manny Ramirez is the worst starting outfielder in baseball based on statistics.

It's possible that because Philly is a bigger market than Colorado, J Roll got the nudge, but the markets aren't that dissimilar.

[hawkeye]

Sox and Dodgers are playing an exibition game at the Coliseum in March. That would be a really cool game to see! link

[its swanny]

so now we're in the hunt for santana...

give up 3 prospects for him?

hmmm.....

[Chicken]

hmm is right, brotha.

[eastcoastrider27]

Apparently the Twins aren't after only the Yanks' prospects in a potential Santana deal.

SI says the Twins want Jacoby Ellsbury and either Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester for Santana.

As much as I would love to see Santana in a Red Sox uniform (and out of pinstripes), that's too much to give up. I doubt the Sox would ever do that deal.

[Chicken]

Apparently the Twins aren't after only the Yanks' prospects in a potential Santana deal.

SI says the Twins want Jacoby Ellsbury and either Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester for Santana.

As much as I would love to see Santana in a Red Sox uniform (and out of pinstripes), that's too much to give up. I doubt the Sox would ever do that deal.

elisbury and buchholz will be a bargain for minnesota. exactly the type of players they want. low cost, high performance while they can rid themselves of santana's demands.

[hawkeye]

Last updated: 11/29, 12:01 p.m.

Are the Sox the frontrunners?

The Red Sox may be the frontrunners for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press: "The Twins would receive four players for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, 28. Others would be shortstop prospect Jed Lowry, 23; left-handed pitcher Jon Lester, 23; and right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson, 22. Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years." ...The Red Sox may covet Santana, the Boston Herald reported Wednesday, but his price will be prohibitive, and Sox wunderkind Jacoby Ellsbury would most likely be a requirement in any deal. The Herald's Michael Silverman wrote that "Although no one in the system has been deemed as an 'untouchable', the Red Sox are loathe to part with rookie center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Instead, they would prefer to package Coco Crisp in a deal with the Twins, who, in addition to Ellsbury, have asked for starter Clay Buchholz and other real prospects. The Sox would like the Twins to accept a proven major league center fielder, Crisp, to help fill the hole left behind in Minnesota when free agent Torii Hunter signed with the Los Angeles Angels." The New York Times' Jack Curry reported Wednesday that the Twins have asked for Ellsbury, but that Boston is balking at that. SI.com reported late Tuesday that the Twins have asked the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester, plus Ellsbury. The Yankees have confirmed the start of trade talks for Santana, Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday. The Twins are asking the Yankees for a package of at least three young players that would include one of Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy -- plus center fielder Melky Cabrera, according to SI.com However, on Wednesday the Newark Star Ledger reported that the Yankees have made Chamberlain and second baseman Robinson Cano off limits. ... The Twins have reportedly offered Santana a four-year, $80 million extension, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. The newspaper also reports that Santana asked for more, and that the two sides could be as much as two years and $40 million apart.

I could live with loosing Coco, Lester and Lowrie (though Id rather see Lugo wrapped up in this deal) I'd love to see Masterson come up with the Sox though, Ive heard good things, but come on:

Beckett

Santana

Schilling

Matsuzaka

Buccholz

Would be SICK! The only gripe I had before was loosing Ellsbury, who I think should be a great leadoff guy for a long time, but ditching Coco would be a real + especially since we might have traded him to the Twins anyway since Torri left.

[Chicken]

man that would be a deal if twins took coco instead of ellsbury and/or buccholz. but minnesota has been a pretty savy organization so i wonder.

man, for us losing melky could hurt, too. johnny or hideki's arms just won't cut it at the center field. but it might be easier to find a good center fielder than an awesome lefty pitching. hmm. but i really hope joba and cano are off limits.

[Lab]

Any chance the Yanks will get Santana?

Looks like they finalized Posada's contract.

[hawkeye]

man that would be a deal if twins took coco instead of ellsbury and/or buccholz. but minnesota has been a pretty savy organization so i wonder.

man, for us losing melky could hurt, too. johnny or hideki's arms just won't cut it at the center field. but it might be easier to find a good center fielder than an awesome lefty pitching. hmm. but i really hope joba and cano are off limits.

Yea it would, but I see him going to the yankees, I think this Coco deal might have been leaked by the Twins to push the Yanks into dealing Joba, Hughes or Melky. And they sort of have to do it, I mean, if the Sox get Santana it's game over in the AL east! I bet they send one of them, the Sox deal is just too sweet.

[eastcoastrider27]

It's fun to think what it would be like to have Santana. He certainly is more "sexy" (that's not the right word to use, but I can't think of anything better) than prospects like Masterson and Lowry. He's an established pitcher, and would be able to contribute to the team immediately as opposed to the future with prospects, but I think this would be a bad trade for the Sox in the long run.

The Sox have a great farm system, and I think they should develop their young pitchers rather than use them as trade bait for big name players.

I have no problem letting go of Lester and Coco, and possibly Lowry, but I think they should keep Masterson. If that means a deal doesn't get done, then so be it.

It's clear that Santana is done with the Twins, and will likely only play for them for one more season if no deal is made, so I think they should take this trade. They're getting a lot, and filling key-holes (Lester for Santana, Coco for Hunter).

I definitely wouldn't be upset if we got Santana, since he is the best lefty in the game, but I think I'd prefer to not do the deal. The Sox have a lot of pitching (Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, and Masterson, Bowden in the minors), so I don't think they really need Santana as much as other clubs might.

I'll say this, any trade involving Ellsbury or Buchholz (and there are reports that the Sox will part with 2 of the following 3: Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury) is damn foolish. Ellsbury could become one of the leagues great leadoff men. He also has amazing speed, good instincts, and great defense. Buchholz is projected by some to be a potential number 1 starter. I don't know if I see that yet, but it's certainly a possibility. To give up these young, promising players would be a big mistake and one I don't see the Sox making.

[dunkin deeznuts]

agree with everything you say

red sox dont really need santana

I think they are more in it to keep the yanks from getting him or to at least drive the price up as much as possible.

[sleazie ninja number 47]

whats this nonsense about the mets trying to trade reyes for santana?

I hope the phils try to land melvin mora as rumoured. Can't wait for the winter meetings...most exciting part of baseball...

[kwiteaboy]

The Rays pulled off an awesome trade where both sides got better. With Bartlett at SS, Longoria at 3B, and Iwamura at 2B, they went from by far the worst defense in the league to at least league average. Bartlett alone is worth probably 3 to 4 wins over last year at SS.

I read somewhere that the Rays have something like 21 current or future major league caliber SPs under age 25. They're going to sneak up on everybody pretty soon. I predict 85-90 wins this year.

[Chicken]

^ i'll consider you a genius if this comes true. the 85-90 part.

[kwiteaboy]

^ i'll consider you a genius if this comes true. the 85-90 part.

Haha, thanks.

For anyone who gambles on sports (wink), Vegas will hugely underestimate the Rays this year (as will everyone else). Put a lot of money on the over, then thank me a year from now.

[Chicken]

some tense few hours here surrounding johan.

[GoodHustle]

I read somewhere that the Rays have something like 21 current or future major league caliber SPs under age 25. They're going to sneak up on everybody pretty soon. I predict 85-90 wins this year.

I find this a little hard to believe. Everything I've read points to the Rays having a weak farm, especially when it comes to major league-ready pitching. They wouldn't have traded Delmon Young if they didn't have a great need for a young pitcher behind Kazmir and Shields.

I think they'll be better in 2008 than they were in 2007, but no way are they winning 85-90 games. Lets not forget that the Yankees and the Red Sox are in the same division.