PRPS

[grooveholmes]

I should apologize to folks who are reading yet another long conversation somewhat relevant to PRPS denim haha. If you'd like for us to shut the eff up, just let us know. ML knows his stuff, and I'm grateful for the discussion.

Great read-- thanks for the link! Everything that you've described in terms of difference in ingredients, indigo source, etc., seems to support the point that you just simply cannot tell from observation and comparison that an item is definitively natural indigo without knowing (aka inside knowledge) or implicitly trusting that the item is indeed what it claims to be. I would actually take your digi-analog analogy one step further. It's like trying to spot a really good fake painting. We no longer can simply trust the opinions of experts simply because they "know" a particular style or the particular strokes or even the paint or frame used, simply through the power of repetitive observation and study. It really comes down to the science of it all on a micro--sometimes molecular--level to verify or validate authenticity. However, I do firmly believe in artistic integrity in terms of material and dye used, and that there is certainly something special and gratifying about owning something made from the finest materials and/or ingredients.

I really want to believe that a Japanese dyer can spot the difference between what we would call pure indigo and natural indigo in fabric, but I am skeptical they could consistently tell that difference without knowing what to look for under a microscope. However, that would be a really cool study... put master dyers in a room (with access to various lighting conditions) full of unmarked, unbranded denim and see if they can pick out the items that use natural and synthetic (pure?) indigo! Sadly, I think it would be a difficult task, in the same way art experts would be--and certainly have been--incorrect in assessing master forgeries.

The dyeing technology and technique is there (as you've inferred, some of it actually has been around for quite some time) and is that good, as evidenced in the achievement of our mystery Levi's master dyer. With the cheaper, less well-made synthetics out there, the differences are easier to spot, but I would also say it's really difficult (if not impossible) to conclude simply through observation, the difference between a really good synthetic and natural indigo, no matter how well-"trained" someone's eye is. All we can do is appreciate the final product, which isn't a bad thing at all!

Basically, I think my conclusion is this: we can only appreciate something made with natural indigo in hind-sight or post-knowledge, but really can't extrapolate a general rule that can be applied accurately, precisely because of the inconsistency of methods of dyeing you've described. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it just makes part of me wish these damn companies weren't so secretive. And yet, the secret is part of the fun...

I'd love to hear more about mud/dirt-dyeing, if you have any insight (you can PM me). And, to bring the thread around to topic, do you think the PRPS raw could be using a sulfur bottom which accounts for the yellowish/gray tint?

PS - digital.

[DrMoBueno]

PRPS Impala.

TTS 32.

2 machine washes. An experiment I am not enjoying.

~9 months of wear. Admittedly not much going on. Like Paris Hilton, these jeans are very, very loose. Like Paris Hilton, these jeans are documented on the internet.

As advertised, these have stretched like you would not believe. Thankfully, I have enough hips and ass for them to hang on, so a belt is still unnecessary. Many shades of blue and holding the indigo very well. I am impressed with the denim's quality. That said, the thought of paying full price for these jeans would cause my heart to skip a beat. If one could acquire a pair at a good discount, I would offer one my recommendation.

I have enjoyed the indigo conversation here lately, though I consider the PRPS thread a very unlikely host...

[DoitsuJin]

they look really rinsed out... did you give them a wash early?

[grooveholmes]

Thanks for the post, DrMB. What exactly is/was the experiment?

[DrMoBueno]

Not rinsed out, just bad pictures. An odd thing about these jeans, it does not take long to create a foul odor. Something about the makeup of the jeans interacts with the filth and becomes something especially weird. These have been washed twice because the smell becomes unbearable.

Still very dark. Yellowed interior indicates the sulphur base. Not indicative of every denim PRPS uses, though.

Forgot the purple selvedge. Didn't keep the chainstitch when they got hemmed.

With these jeans I experimented with not giving a damn. As in, I didn't give a damn about the chainstitch. As in, I didn't dedicate an hour of my life to handwashing in a tub with Dr Bronner's, I threw them in the washing machine with Cheer. I now realize I miss the handwashing.

I'll give them another 6-9 months to see what happens.

[PandaXS]

^ i always thought the biggest reason why there was a yellow tint was because it was undyed zimb cotton?

[dawei69]

yea, me too, both my PRPS jeans have a yellowish weft.... pretty sure that's the just the undyed nature of the cotton... My all my sulfur based jeans are black

[lostinthesupermarket]

Surely you mean unbleached rather than undyed?

[joelz]

Gilt has barracuda's for $69: http://www.gilt.com/sale/men/prps-939/product/56729340

Need an invite? http://www.gilt.com/invite/joelzimmer

[poly800rock]

Atrium in NYC has heirloom barracudas for $89.....Raw

[grooveholmes]

I need some raw Ramblers...

[grooveholmes]

Ramblers

[paxmadam]

jesus christ, i've been searching all over the damn place for some ramblers.... finally bit the bullet and overpaid on a pair... what the hell happened, there was a day and age where i was able to cop them from bluefly for 118 easy. they're like fuckin unicorns i tell ya

[grooveholmes]

This is true. They disappeared stateside for a year it seems. They're definitely back this season. It's their best cut, for sure.

[909]

these have been my go-to denim for approximately 10 months and counting -- with an average wear of 3 to 4 times per week. i've yet to adulterated them, so they've never been washed or soaked. i haven't worn them hard, just often and as of yet they don't have a noticeable odor, but i am thinking about soaking or washing sometime within the next few months...

[matera]

Here's my prps at around 8 or 9 months and 1 wash. These things stretch like crazy and fit too big in the waist on me(i should have sized down 2 instead of 1) but they are fading nice and are producing great colors. I want to start on a different pair but I think I'm going to hold out a while longer.

[khris89]

just copped a pair of the new barracudas without the fold over pockets but has hidden rivets. I'm surprised that the denim is flimsier than i thought. feels like 11 oz denim?

[grooveholmes]

no folded pockets? hidden rivets? a sample pair, maybe? let's see em.

[lenn]

prps produced jeans without the folded pockets too, doesn't have to be a sample

[grooveholmes]

interesting. i havent seen any of those stateside. not that they dont exist, but i just havent seen them in any of the shops i frequent.

that's nuts. why would they move away from their back pocket design? is it a pair of raws?

[khris89]

yeah its a raw pair that i picked up from peggs and sons

Still the same purple selvage, but now has slightly different details: the pocket bags are camo, the leather patch is not sewn over.

I haven;t had earlier PRPS jeans to compare the denim to, but i'd say these are lightweight as hell.

The denim feels slightly thinner than my LVC47, Nudie Selvage and Evisu No.2s.

Anyone who's seen both, have you had a chance to compare?

[Bokkepoot]

Nice jeans..

[khris89]

Thanks, if anyone has had experience with seeing both the new and old folded back pocket versions, is the denim the same in both?

[paxmadam]

they're the same, unless you get the limited edition ones. in which case, the denim is not tinted.

[poly800rock]

i want another pair of prps

[grooveholmes]

damn, i must have missed a lot over the past few years. I thought the denim is always unbleached on the raw ramblers and the 'cudas, hence the tint. I've got a pair of each model (pre-2010) and they have the same buttery soft denim. I guess if they've moved away from that the recent pics make sense, as the denim looks dissimilar to mine from '08 and '09. still wondering why they'd move back to hidden rivets-- not that I really mind-- it just seems to lose it's signature aesthetic identifier. regardless, some of the best denim I've come across.

[holeymoley]

khris, I want my new raw PRPS to look like those...what do I do?

[saintkeat]

Anyone willing to help me out with sizing questions for the new rambler please pm me. I'll add rep

[PandaXS]

I would go true to size on them. they will be tight until they stretch then slim.

here are my prps just got out of another wash

[grooveholmes]

I know for me, in the past models it came down to the thigh measurements. The 34s fit me quite well in the waist, but I had a helluva time getting my thighs through them. This was when I was biking quite a bit, though. I had to size up, which wasn't too bad. Stretches a lot, but washes/soaks keep it in check. The denim on the newer Ramblers looks to be different, so I don't know much about its character after exposure to water.