PRPS

[grooveholmes]

I had similar problems with Bluefly and their inability to accurately post inventory on their website. I actually ordered the Ramblers and kept getting the Barracudas. I finally gave up (after 3 times) and got my money back.

[Dangydang]

I had the same problem as groove. A few months ago I bought some Ramblers off of Bluefly, but they sent me Barracudas instead. This happened twice. Now 909 is saying that they're selling Ramblers, but mislabeled as Barracudas. WTF??

[909]

just to clarify prps isn't mislabeling their jeans.

I had similar problems with Bluefly and their inability to accurately post inventory on their website. I actually ordered the Ramblers and kept getting the Barracudas. I finally gave up (after 3 times) and got my money back.

this pretty much mirrors my experience except i ordered barracudas, but they send ramblers. it's definitely a bluefly inventory problem.

[909]

well, i've been wearing the barracudas for a few weeks now, really like them. the thighs have stretch a bit and definitely have gotten comfortable, however, they are still what I would consider snug. the waist is where the stretching is most noticeable as the label size 34" was measuring closer to a 35 1/2". I suspect it's now 36+ so it looks like time for a new belt. the funny thing, the extra waist girth is primarily in the back -- not so much the front unless I tug on them.

[grooveholmes]

well, i've been wearing the barracudas for a few weeks now, really like them. the thighs have stretch a bit and definitely have gotten comfortable, however, they are still what I would consider snug. the waist is where the stretching is most noticeable as the label size 34" was measuring closer to a 35 1/2". I suspect it's now 36+ so it looks like time for a new belt. the funny thing, the extra waist girth is primarily in the back -- not so much the front unless I tug on them.

Yeah, it's a tough call on sizing for me as well. The quality of the denim is so friggin' amazing, I can't really complain-- only to note that when I've sized down, the thighs are way too tight and I can't button up all the way. I've decided to go with staying TTS as well and "suffer" with a little extra room. However, depending on the mood, I actually use the snaps to bring in the waist.

[grooveholmes]

where the fuck can i buy the ramblers nowadays? need raw in 28 or 30

http://cgi.ebay.com/PRPS-Tight-Fit-Selvage-Selvedge-Jeans-28-rambler-japan-/150468199310?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_CSA_MC_Jeans&hash=item23089a838e#ht_2738wt_1138

These look legit. Purple selvedge...

[PeteZa]

PRPS Heirloom tag size 32.

This might be on sell if anyone interested.

sorry for my bad camera skill.

[grooveholmes]

those are beautiful-- the details are sick.

[PandaXS]

PRPS just got their first wash. they needed it. now i dont smell like outside!

going in

add this

they shrunk up so much

they feel so much better

[grooveholmes]

lookin' good, dude. the indigo on PRPS jeans is phenomenal-- lots of great shades going on. yeah, holdin' out for that first wash is difficult, cuz those jeans can get damn stanky. good choice of mild detergent, too.

[raspberries]

shameless plug

got a pair of prps straight fit in sz 33

they're black with purple selvage. can provide pictures upon request.

pm me!

[benbencho]

Can someone fill me on some PRPS info?

I've been looking for a pair of black raws with purple selvedge.

Are the ramblers a slim fit or skinny fit?

Barracudas are straight, not tapered?

[grooveholmes]

The Ramblers are a slim fit and the Barracudas are more of a straight fit. I have no clue where to find the black raws with the purple selvage. Good luck!

[PeteZa]

I just received rambler raw indigo and would like to know how much can prps stretches in the thigh. Right now, they measure 11inches in the thigh. Is it possible for them to stretch to 12inches? I really want to keep these

[chambo2008]

polly is the best person to ask..

[PandaXS]

it could happen they stretch a whole lot. a size up would be more comfortable and less tight though

[poly800rock]

I just received rambler raw indigo and would like to know how much can prps stretches in the thigh. Right now, they measure 11inches in the thigh. Is it possible for them to stretch to 12inches? I really want to keep these

they'll be fine they stretch a lot.

[PeteZa]

Thanks a lot guys. I did sized up already. I had sz.31 rambler before and they measure 11inches in the thigh also.

[grooveholmes]

Just in case anyone was wondering... news from PRPS: the raw Ramblers will be made available again in '11. I also asked about the dye used and was informed that all their raw models (didn't ask about the others) use natural indigo.

[Madder_Lake]

Just in case anyone was wondering... news from PRPS: the raw Ramblers will be made available again in '11. I also asked about the dye used and was informed that all their raw models (didn't ask about the others) use natural indigo.

I have a pair of their raws and I don't believe that they are natural indigo, not for a minute. They are ordinary synthetic indigo. Are you sure they didn't use another adjective, like 'pure'? This is often used in a confusing way to signify simply "good" synthetic indigo. (It is so on BiG for example.)

Sorry, I don't mean to sound contrary but the massive confusion of what is natural indigo is one of my big bug-bears in denim promotion.

[grooveholmes]

Im writing from my phone so I don't have easy access to that email exchange. The person I was in correspondence was not a sales person but seemed to be "in the know". Ill post it when i get a chance. I did ask specifically if they used natural indigo and the response was that they do use it for their raw models. Not sure if they intended it to mean after a certain year or regarding the upcoming season only, but the tense in which it was written seemed to indicate past and previous seasons. Whether that is on good authority appears to be up for debate!

[Madder_Lake]

Yup, it's worth clarifying, but my guess is that that person does not know what natural indigo is and thinks that "genuine indigo" means the same as "natural indigo." There is no way that my recently bought raw PRPS are natural indigo.

A couple of days ago i had a long conversation with a salesman who believed, because he was told so by the sales rep, that ALL Nudie jeans were selvedge denim. (None were when we looked through the stock.) He had, as it turned out, no idea what selvedge denim was.

[grooveholmes]

Yup, it's worth clarifying, but my guess is that that person does not know what natural indigo is and thinks that "genuine indigo" means the same as "natural indigo." There is no way that my recently bought raw PRPS are natural indigo.

I'm going to give them a call sometime this week. I've got her number and official title (Brand Manager). That could, of course, mean anything. In any case I'll see if she's knowledgeable enough to trust and take at her word. Not that all this natural v. synthetic really matters in the big picture; I just thought to ask.

ML, what is it about your pair that indicates so strongly that it isn't natural? I have an older pair of Ramblers, which I can't tell if they are or aren't-- the blues on them are throwing me for a loop. Can't say I have the best-trained eye, but from what I've read on the matter, it's difficult to tell the difference. I haven't been able to get my hands on a pair recently, so it'd be interesting to hear more from your perspective on the more current raws.

[poly800rock]

i think they might mean pure indigo vs natural indigo.

[grooveholmes]

I have not forgotten. I tried to call them last week and got a voicemail (holidays). I did have a nice correspondence with Gordon at BiG and he (within his legal limits) did say it's something he's never been able to get a very clear cut answer about. I've read that pseudo-scientific paper floating around about the merits of natural v. synthetic using spectrophotometry. But outside of equipment used to analyze the dye itself, nothing seems to be conclusive in terms of how easily natural and synthetic (pure) indigo can be distinguished with the naked eye. Of course, this is only my own cursory analysis. If someone could shed more light on this madder (pun intended), I'd be interested. It's just fascinating stuff, really.

[Madder_Lake]

I have not forgotten. I tried to call them last week and got a voicemail (holidays). I did have a nice correspondence with Gordon at BiG and he (within his legal limits) did say it's something he's never been able to get a very clear cut answer about. I've read that pseudo-scientific paper floating around about the merits of natural v. synthetic using spectrophotometry. But outside of equipment used to analyze the dye itself, nothing seems to be conclusive in terms of how easily natural and synthetic (pure) indigo can be distinguished with the naked eye. Of course, this is only my own cursory analysis. If someone could shed more light on this madder (pun intended), I'd be interested. It's just fascinating stuff, really.

I have two pairs of natural indigo jeans (PBJ and S d'A), two tee shirts dyed in natural indigo and a scarf. I agree it can sometimes be difficult to tell (I have a pair of LVC that are almost identical to the S d'A's), but I have seen no jeans with a similar colour to the PBJ's. As a general rule of thumb natural indigo is bluer with a reddish or purplish tinge. This tinge is most noticeable in the sun.

By contrast most synthetic indigo has a dull cast, less rich, and less nuanced. Much of it tends to grey in the raw state: I'm thinking of APC, Nudie Lab, PRPS, in particular. The raw denim has a nice texture to the fabric in the case of PRPS but the indigo looks flat and uninteresting. This is why I do not think it is natural indigo. In fact I'd be prepared to put money on it not being.

If PRPS ever start using natural indigo the price will easily double.

[grooveholmes]

Thanks ML. Let me preface by saying based on the dodgeyness of the rep, and my own mounting skepticism, I lean more toward the belief these are pure (synthetic) indigo. The visual argument I'm still not certain is convincing. Even Gordon wasn't fully able to commit to saying it's visibly noticeable, especially with regard to pure indigo, which appears to be the dye used. He did say that he thinks that with the heavier stuff, it becomes little more easy to tell based on the dips.

I don't think comparing brands is necessarily the best way to tell, as the 3 or so rope-dyeing mills used in Japan keep their methods under tight wraps. Taking a look at the different natural indigo models brand-to-brand will yield variation in brightness and hue. This is what I believe Gordon was referring to-- it's really difficult to tell simply by comparing. A scarf or a piece of silk (as was used in the study) will yield a different different cast, since the dye will penetrate the fabric differently. I hear you on the general rule--however--the claims are that natural indigo is bluer. This was one of the premises of the pseudo-paper I was reading. Visually you couldn't quite tell without a microscope/spectrophotometer. The only thing that irked me about the paper was that there was some obvious bias using words like "natural indigo produces a more pleasing appearance...blahblahblah". If that's the case, then why bother with the experiment?

I haven't heard about holding it to the sun as a way to examine the tinge of which you speak. I have read from rug antiquarians that sometimes natural indigo over time will produce yellows and even greens. I suspect that this also may be due to the fact that different companies use different methods and ingredients.

I may have to invest in some heavy equipment, because now I'm starting to think that we really basically have to take these companies' word for it, but because they're so secretive, it makes you wonder how truthful their claims really are.

[Madder_Lake]

Hi Groove --- Part of the difficulty in making comparisons is that natural indigo is not just one thing; there are many, many plant sources for natural indigo from the woad plant, isatis tictoria,to indigofera to polygnum tinctorium and the accompanying soup of biochemicals will be different in each. My SdA's are Polygnum, or so SdA claim, and they are closest in tone to synthetic indigo, though still with a little more subtlety and richness. Polygnum is the traditional Japanese source of indigo.

But in general when people speak of natural indigo they mean that the source is indigofera. It was this that became one of the most highly priced and prized "spices" of the 18th Century. And this is what the rest of my items are dyed in, including the scarf (which is Japanese and hand dyed). A Japanese dyer has said that natural and synthetic indigo is as different as "the moon and the turtle".

Most people who own natural indigo denim gush over the tonal qualities, and I am one of those. (Though it is a bit like the difference between analog and digital enthusiasts in Hi-Fi. Some just don't hear the difference.)

I posted something on natural indigo to the LVC thread and I'll see if I can find it and provide a link here.

[Madder_Lake]

Here you go:

natural indigo

[mikecch]

Hi Groove --- Part of the difficulty in making comparisons is that natural indigo is not just one thing; there are many, many plant sources for natural indigo from the woad plant, isatis tictoria,to indigofera to polygnum tinctorium and the accompanying soup of biochemicals will be different in each. My SdA's are Polygnum, or so SdA claim, and they are closest in tone to synthetic indigo, though still with a little more subtlety and richness. Polygnum is the traditional Japanese source of indigo.

But in general when people speak of natural indigo they mean that the source is indigofera. It was this that became one of the most highly priced and prized "spices" of the 18th Century. And this is what the rest of my items are dyed in, including the scarf (which is Japanese and hand dyed). A Japanese dyer has said that natural and synthetic indigo is as different as "the moon and the turtle".

Most people who own natural indigo denim gush over the tonal qualities, and I am one of those. (Though it is a bit like the difference between analog and digital enthusiasts in Hi-Fi. Some just don't hear the difference.)

I posted something on natural indigo to the LVC thread and I'll see if I can find it and provide a link here.

Good post!

P.S. Digital is superior, hahahahahaha