football: the beautiful game

[LaiShin]

Even for someone with Capello's achievements. I think being paid 4 times McLaren's wages is tad bit absurd, considering that there aren't any 'big' games ahead of them any time soon.

[beast]

Even for someone with Capello's achievements. I think being paid 4 times McLaren's wages is tad bit absurd, considering that there aren't any 'big' games ahead of them any time soon.

It has been calculated that England's failure to reach Euro 08 cost FA millions and the economy billion.

So if Capello wants 3 or 4 times McClaren's wages, its a good deal if he can get England to qualify for World Cup already.

[the breaks]

Finally an England side without Lampard and Gerrard on at once?

[beast]

Finally an England side without Lampard and Gerrard on at once?

I think either would be favoured but maybe not both. Rafa and Jose have drilled their players to adopt defensive roles when need be and both should be very adept at it by now.

The question now is who will be Capello's Makelele? Hargreaves or Ledley King?

Also, which less talented but more committed player would get the chance of an England cap under Capello? And which big name players who will get axed ASAP.

The Chelsea team? SWP? Joe Cole? Ashley? Terry?

[Magsåvningsreserven]

Ledley King imo is the most underrated defender in England to be perfectly honest.

Every time he has played for England he has been sublime, won man of the match twice in his few appearances, and made Henry look like a total twat @ Euro 04..

[fatchino]

Ledley King imo is the most underrated defender in England to be perfectly honest.

Every time he has played for England he has been sublime, won man of the match twice in his few appearances, and made Henry look like a total twat @ Euro 04..

When was the last time he even kicked a ball? Nicky Butt was Pele's player of the tournament in Japan/ S. Korea ...

Why would England drop Hargreaves anyway? Can't find too many players with the ability to tackle as well as pass the ball accurately beyond 15 yards it seems. He's one of the candidates to replace that rather unpleasant chap, Terry, as captain anyway. But that's probably all media hype.

[fatchino]

P.S. "Grand Slam Sunday" to suck this weekend ...

[readytoignite]

Why do you think that? I think he's a great coach and they could've done much worse with the selection.

the answer is that the problem with england isn't the manager, it's england. the players aren't as good as everyone thinks and the constant media scrutiny puts any manager at an immediate disadvantage. it's possible jose could have handled it but he was never going to take the job

it's true that mclaren was an underachiever but sven took them as far as they rightfully deserved.

with respect to ledley - most spurs supporters have come to the conclusion that he will never again regularly feature for the club, let alone england.

[Magsåvningsreserven]

King's near match fitness, should be back for the Arsenal game

hopefully will stay fit for a while at least..

I know some idiot started rumours he had arthritis or something and was going to retire, a lot or bs has been coming up about his health, but then again we seem to be the home for sicknotes. Anderton ftw.

[polishmike]

the answer is that the problem with england isn't the manager, it's england. the players aren't as good as everyone thinks and the constant media scrutiny puts any manager at an immediate disadvantage.

I somewhat disagree with you. I blame the manager for failure to qualify for Euro 08 and not the players. As much as some players didn't perform to the standards there are still many very good players in England.

Poland qualified for the first time ever for Euro and it's because we finally got a good manager. Beenhakker had same players as every previous manager and still did something with them that nobody before him got even close to. Player for player England has much much better players than Poland (maybe except the goalies) and players like Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, Ferdinand and Terry are better than my country ever had. You can make a similar comparison to the Russian and Israeli teams. It's the managers job to put them on the field, organize them and tell them how to win each game. Mclaren was never able to do that. Also nobody can say that there is no winning mentality, most of these players won the league or champions league in last 3-4 years. They know how to win and how to handle pressure.

Capello is a great tactician, he won the league with last 3 teams he managed and won the champions league before. He was the most experienced from all of the available choices and he can work well under pressure. It was also mentioned that he is not afraid to use fringe players. I think it's a great choice and worth even 10 times more money than Mclaren.

[beast]

Ledley King imo is the most underrated defender in England to be perfectly honest.

Every time he has played for England he has been sublime, won man of the match twice in his few appearances, and made Henry look like a total twat @ Euro 04..

Terry, Rio, Micah and Sol and maybe Woodgate would be higher in the pecking order than him.

If Capello cant make him play left or right back, then the only thing left is holding midfielder which Hargreaves is a prime candidate for too.

[beast]

I somewhat disagree with you. I blame the manager for failure to qualify for Euro 08 and not the players. As much as some players didn't perform to the standards there are still many very good players in England.

Poland qualified for the first time ever for Euro and it's because we finally got a good manager. Beenhakker had same players as every previous manager and still did something with them that nobody before him got even close to. Player for player England has much much better players than Poland (maybe except the goalies) and players like Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, Ferdinand and Terry are better than my country ever had. You can make a similar comparison to the Russian and Israeli teams. It's the managers job to put them on the field, organize them and tell them how to win each game. Mclaren was never able to do that. Also nobody can say that there is no winning mentality, most of these players won the league or champions league in last 3-4 years. They know how to win and how to handle pressure.

Capello is a great tactician, he won the league with last 3 teams he managed and won the champions league before. He was the most experienced from all of the available choices and he can work well under pressure. It was also mentioned that he is not afraid to use fringe players. I think it's a great choice and worth even 10 times more money than Mclaren.

For Euro 08, all England needed was a draw on home soil against a team that leak goals. They couldnt managed that. The fault lies with McClaren for selecting wrong players and tactics just like he did before.

Since Mourinho is not available, Capello is the next best. With his track record he is even better than Mourinho.

[beast]

P.S. "Grand Slam Sunday" to suck this weekend ...

For Arsenal v Chelsea, Arsenal with Fabregas, Hleb, Walcott and Flamini out but luckily Van Persie in should draw or beat Chelsea who cannot score with Sheva minus Drogba. Cant see Chelsea winning this one. Last season ended up 2 draws in BPL with Arsenal and Chelsea actually was not even close to winning and both matches were drawn thanks to Essien who is suspended.

For Liverpool v Man United, really open game and can go all 3 ways.

[fatchino]

For Arsenal v Chelsea, Arsenal with Fabregas, Hleb, Walcott and Flamini out but luckily Van Persie in should draw or beat Chelsea who cannot score with Sheva minus Drogba. Cant see Chelsea winning this one. Last season ended up 2 draws in BPL with Arsenal and Chelsea actually was not even close to winning and both matches were drawn thanks to Essien who is suspended.

For Liverpool v Man United, really open game and can go all 3 ways.

Sheva to win it for Chelsea ...

[readytoignite]

Player for player England has much much better players than Poland (maybe except the goalies) and players like Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, Ferdinand and Terry are better than my country ever had. You can make a similar comparison to the Russian and Israeli teams. It's the managers job to put them on the field, organize them and tell them how to win each game. Mclaren was never able to do that. Also nobody can say that there is no winning mentality, most of these players won the league or champions league in last 3-4 years. They know how to win and how to handle pressure.

i don't fundamentally disagree, but i do question the received wisdom that england's players are the dog's nuts and that the team could actually win a final of a major tournament. for me, the perception has a lot to do with the high profile and worldwide commercial reach of the premiership. anyway, capello would be doing extremely well to get to a final but it's unlikely any european team will win in 2008 so it all seems a little moot from my (somewhat pragmatic) perspective

btw caught that bit about goalkeepers, spoken like a true polish scouse.

magnetic - i doubt if king will play more than 20 games a season from here on out, there's nothing in the recent past to suggest he will and knee problems never really go away. but hey some display against pompey today, eh? the make shift backline was never really tested but yet again chimbo was caught napping on a set piece, luckily no one was able to make contact.

also miss of the season at the 31st minute - can't remember ever seeing a shot on goal go out for a throw in? south coast donkeys

[beast]

Sheva to win it for Chelsea ...

Sheva who can only score against lowly English teams like in the Coca Cola Championships and below.

Sheva who can get dispossess by the crappiest defenders in the BPL lower teams.

Sheva who only score like 6 or 7 goals in BPL since last season till now, the last season Jose started him in many matches.

Sheva who Grant was brought in to make him into a top scorer again, dont even sub him much less start him since he became Chelsea's manager.

But Sheva for Ukraine and to a certain extent Champions League is a different person altogether.

[beast]

i don't fundamentally disagree, but i do question the received wisdom that england's players are the dog's nuts and that the team could actually win a final of a major tournament. for me, the perception has a lot to do with the high profile and worldwide commercial reach of the premiership. anyway, capello would be doing extremely well to get to a final but it's unlikely any european team will win in 2008 so it all seems a little moot from my (somewhat pragmatic) perspective

btw caught that bit about goalkeepers, spoken like a true polish scouse.

magnetic - i doubt if king will play more than 20 games a season from here on out, there's nothing in the recent past to suggest he will and knee problems never really go away. but hey some display against pompey today, eh? the make shift backline was never really tested but yet again chimbo was caught napping on a set piece, luckily no one was able to make contact.

also miss of the season at the 31st minute - can't remember ever seeing a shot on goal go out for a throw in? south coast donkeys

Dozed off before 2nd half. But what I do recall was Kaboul fumbling as usual. And Berbatov complaining as usual. I wonder how long will Ramos let them stay in the team.

[superdupersang]

any thoughts on capello's appointment as england manager?

i dont think his job ia as strightforward as he thinks, despite his amazing club coach record.

look at ericsson. he had an outstanding record as a club coach and is doing wonders at man city, but he just couldnt hack it as a national coach.

capeelo could have the same problem

[beast]

any thoughts on capello's appointment as england manager?

i dont think his job ia as strightforward as he thinks, despite his amazing club coach record.

look at ericsson. he had an outstanding record as a club coach and is doing wonders at man city, but he just couldnt hack it as a national coach.

capeelo could have the same problem

Fab Cap has a better track record as a club manager than Sven.

The job aint that straightforward because you cannot control the players all the time.

You only have them to train for short spells. You have to deal with managers who dont want their charges to be injured as well.

[beast]

Super Sunday was determined by errors.

Benayouin's error in standing at the goal post and Cech's error in missing the ball.

Rafa should give up on Kewell. Think his best days are over. Babel was so much more better when on.

Sheva is a lost cause. And for some strange reason, all strikers Chelsea gets their hands on, turn to crap. Look at Kalou and Pizarro and Sheva. Compared to Santa Cruz and even Babel.

Grant is over-rated. He is good for the mid tables teams but when he meets the big boys, he stumbles. Somehow if Jose is around, think they would at least get a point at Emirates. The teams they played thus far flatter them and Grant's protestations of sexy football is untrue. The only difference is Chelsea now tend to push for more goals even when they lead compared to Chelsea closing shop in the past once they lead under Jose.

Of all the top 4 against each other, Chelsea so far is the worst. Only 1 point from Liverpool and that was during Jose's reign.

Somehow, Gallas would end up scoring against his old club and showed them how wrong it was not to pay him his big pay rise.

[readytoignite]

you're right, drogba is complete crap. i'll take him on a free, thanks. throw in joe cole while you're at it, he hasn't shown much progress either. best part of the match was the fabregas / ashley cole aggro, two cheats trained by the best.

but i'm happy, we won 0-2 away today with 2/3 possession and playing with a two man disadvantage.

out of curiosity beast, whom do you support?

[fatchino]

P.S. "Grand Slam Sunday" to suck this weekend ...

Over rated, over hyped, Sky television bloated bullshit ... at least two over negatively teams slugging it out afraid to fail ... United can't fail to win the league now. Their first team is so much better than those competing with them. Their squad is solid and the African Cup of Nations won't trouble SAF in the slightest.

Alan Hanson said Sheva can't run, but despite the sarcasm I previously exuded I can't understand why he's been so poor. Thought Chelsea had bought the league when they signed him and Ballack amoungst others last season ... then Sheva scored a typical predatory goal in the Community Shield (2006) and I thought that was that ... I was wrong.

[beast]

you're right, drogba is complete crap. i'll take him on a free, thanks. throw in joe cole while you're at it, he hasn't shown much progress either. best part of the match was the fabregas / ashley cole aggro, two cheats trained by the best.

but i'm happy, we won 0-2 away today with 2/3 possession and playing with a two man disadvantage.

out of curiosity beast, whom do you support?

Nah. Drogba has value. Despite being 29 or is it 30, many clubs will still grab him. If he gets too old he can be converted to a top defender. Yup. Cole and SWP still have not improved. Chelsea better spend this Jan. Something Abramovich denied to Jose. Jose only got Malouda and free transfers in August.

Fabregas was excellent. Dived twice in the penalty box but was never carded.

Ashley was out to prove something. Too bad Chelsea lost.

Spurs winning at Man City is a good result considering Sven did not lost at home this season. Should Defoe be in the first 11?

[beast]

Over rated, over hyped, Sky television bloated bullshit ... at least two over negatively teams slugging it out afraid to fail ... United can't fail to win the league now. Their first team is so much better than those competing with them. Their squad is solid and the African Cup of Nations won't trouble SAF in the slightest.

Alan Hanson said Sheva can't run, but despite the sarcasm I previously exuded I can't understand why he's been so poor. Thought Chelsea had bought the league when they signed him and Ballack amoungst others last season ... then Sheva scored a typical predatory goal in the Community Shield (2006) and I thought that was that ... I was wrong.

If you can get Sheva to score like what he did in AC, you have a big job waiting for you at the Bridge.

I dont know. Think he is old, he cant run as quick. He is slower than Drogba. Chelsea loves to release all those long passes and Drogba will fight the offside trap to get the ball. On Sunday, Gallas and Toure closed him down easy. He lacks confidence, he loses the ball easily, he plays out of position, BPL is too much for him now at his age.

As for African Cup of Nations, Portsmouth and Chelsea will suffer. Arsenal will suffer from Toure being gone and Liverpool a bit with Sissoko out unless Alonso recovers fast enough.

[readytoignite]

Nah. Drogba has value. Despite being 29 or is it 30, many clubs will still grab him. If he gets too old he can be converted to a top defender. Yup. Cole and SWP still have not improved. Chelsea better spend this Jan. Something Abramovich denied to Jose. Jose only got Malouda and free transfers in August.

Fabregas was excellent. Dived twice in the penalty box but was never carded.

Ashley was out to prove something. Too bad Chelsea lost.

Spurs winning at Man City is a good result considering Sven did not lost at home this season. Should Defoe be in the first 11?

ok just checking on drogba because you just said "all strikers Chelsea gets their hands on, turn to crap". but apparently crap has value? not sure how drogba went from from one of the best strikers in the premiership to crap in one season, maybe you can explain? joe cole is 10x the player he was under ranieri and i would take him in a heartbeat. let me know who chelsea has or can get as a better left winger.

i have not seen any evidence that berbs and keano are not our best striker pairing. so no on that one..

noticed you ducked my question about whom you support. so i'm guessing it's not qpr

[fatchino]

Should Defoe be in the first 11?

Letting that ounce of patriotism take over for a nano second I say no way they can drop Keane. Then I consider the footballing logistics and realize no way they can drop Keane and that Berbatov and him have to be the no. 1 strike partnership. Defoe's attitude during the Jol era, added to his brilliantly planned Hammers exit can't help him in the loyalty stakes either.

P.S. no1s seriously saying Drogba isn't key to Chelsea's immediate plans are they?

[beast]

ok just checking on drogba because you just said "all strikers Chelsea gets their hands on, turn to crap". but apparently crap has value? not sure how drogba went from from one of the best strikers in the premiership to crap in one season, maybe you can explain? joe cole is 10x the player he was under ranieri and i would take him in a heartbeat. let me know who chelsea has or can get as a better left winger.

i have not seen any evidence that berbs and keano are not our best striker pairing. so no on that one..

noticed you ducked my question about whom you support. so i'm guessing it's not qpr

1. I meant all strikers in the Abramovich era except Drogba. You got to put Shvea, Kezman, Kalou and Pizarro in that list.

2. I thought they wanted to get that Spanish player for a hefty sum who met with Jose but balked at the last minute?

[beast]

Letting that ounce of patriotism take over for a nano second I say no way they can drop Keane. Then I consider the footballing logistics and realize no way they can drop Keane and that Berbatov and him have to be the no. 1 strike partnership. Defoe's attitude during the Jol era, added to his brilliantly planned Hammers exit can't help him in the loyalty stakes either.

P.S. no1s seriously saying Drogba isn't key to Chelsea's immediate plans are they?

Its the Juande era. So its an all clean slate. So far Defoe looks more deadly and useful than Bent.

Its very interesting the Drogba situation. Drogba said more than once he wants to quit. Lampard may quit since he refused to sign a new contract.

So which other top class strikers can they get that guarantee 20 and more goals one season? Villa? One is not enough. They got to have 2 at least. Sheva, Pizarro and Kalou have been shooting blanks.

What about Malouda. He came because of Drogba and Jose. Now would he want to stay?

[beast]

DId anyone catch Chelsea v Aston Villa 2 days ago?

I bet Abramovich didnt have this in mind when he wanted entertaining football.

Grant is simply not good enough. He have been second best against Man U and Arsenal. Even against Blackburn and Villa first half, Chelsea was poor.

Villa beat Chelsea at home by deploying fast attackers from their flanks bypassing Makelele. So Grant actually got rid of a holding midfielder. No Mikel or Makelele. He relied on Ferreira and Cole and Alex and Carvalho who still cant handle Agbonlahor.

Jose's legacy of a solid defence is gone now as well but Fergie still have it.

Rio and Vidic is rock solid for Man U.

But this time, they relied on Alex who does not look comfortable being a defender in BPL, the weak link Fereira, the declining Ashley. Carvalho was in midfield most of the time and no holding mid fielder to protect the back 3. No wonder Cech looked so jittery and gave an easy 2nd goal.

In fact everytime Villa attacked, they looked capable of scoring. If not for Knight's sending off, the Stamford Bridge home record would have definitely crashed because there was no impact player on the bench capable of saving Chelsea.

Despite the sending off, Villa should continue with the game they were playing. For every goal conceded, they would score the same.

In fact other than Lampard, Essien and Mikel and maybe Cole and Cech, all the Chelsea players should be sold.

And now Grant wants to buy during the Jan transfer market? The same thing Jose wanted to do but Abramovich nixed it?

[outline]

Beast, I've seen the game, there is way too many problems in the team and Aston Villa just exposed them. AV actually did scored 4 goals in London this season @ Spurs, so they are a good team upfront at least. With all those talks of Milan buying Drogba who is Chelsea's main gun it looks like Chelsea will enter a true new era real soon. They didn't loose for 16 games after they lost @ MU so I don't really think Grant was as big of a negative impact for a team. As far as who to sell

1 Petr Cech 15 0 73 0 0 1 0 0 8 3 4

23 Carlo Cudicini 4 0 10 0 0 1 0 0 3 0 1

40 Henrique Hilario 0 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

8 Frank Lampard 15 0 5 47 23 6 8 14 4 0

3 Ashley Cole 14 0 0 1 0 0 4 26 3 1

12 John Mikel Obi 13 4 0 6 3 0 31 31 3 1

21 Salomon Kalou 12 6 3 24 12 7 15 17 1 0

10 Joe Cole 12 3 3 22 10 0 16 15 3 0

5 Michael Essien 12 1 2 19 12 2 12 20 5 1

24 Shaun Wright-Phillips 11 5 1 23 10 4 15 16 1 0

33 Alex 11 2 2 11 5 1 6 9 2 0

35 Juliano Belletti 11 1 1 5 4 0 13 14 3 0

26 John Terry 11 0 0 5 1 0 7 11 4 0

11 Didier Drogba 10 1 5 35 15 3 28 18 3 1

15 Florent Malouda 9 2 1 19 9 1 11 19 1 0

6 Ricardo Carvalho 9 0 0 1 0 0 11 13 4 1

7 Andriy Shevchenko 8 3 4 24 12 1 9 7 0 0

22 Tal Ben-Haim 7 3 0 0 0 0 9 4 2 0

20 Paulo Ferreira 7 1 0 0 0 0 6 5 0 0

9 Steve Sidwell 6 4 0 7 1 1 13 5 1 0

4 Claude Makelele 5 1 0 0 0 0 5 6 0 0

14 Claudio Pizarro 3 11 1 16 5 0 3 8 0 0

18 Wayne Bridge 3 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0

2 Glen Johnson 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0

13 Michael Ballack

Ballack and 7eva, Carvalho need to go immediately,now with Drogba possibly leaving to Milan they really need someone who can replace him. I would try Et'o.